IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #5

[Montjoy]

Then why did he apply for the other local Chief of Police Jobs, right after being suspended? That does not seem very rational.

I am not sure what Mister Essy means. LOL I even tried urban dictionary.

rsbm
As for the first part -- after viewing his social media, and learning what we have learned about him, I would not assume him to always act rationally.

As for "Mister Essy" -- Put the letters of the two words together; remove the first 'e' and the only 'y'.

 

[Boo Radley]

It's an intriguing case,respectfully critiquing each other's theories in a shared search for the truth is what it's all about.Thanks for taking a look.

This is the most difficult part for me to believe to be able to buy in to my own theory,but try this:

Lt.JG only had to arrive before the 3 guys to explain the 20 minute delay.Lets say I got the roles of each of each of the 3 wrong,that they had no drugs, nothing on them except cash and guns.
The 3 arrived together,left their vehicle over towards the Animal Hospital and were there to meet another party for a transaction just a few minutes later around 8am...The other guy would have seen the chaos that quickly followed the request for the backup/officer down calls and quickly and smoothly slipped out of town.

They began to flee,Lt.JG advises dispatch,then poised to pursue,he accepts offer of back up and goes.A cop who takes conditioning seriously and runs competitively in mud races could cover let's say 200 yards surprisingly fast.Trees/cover is a big equalizer.If Lt.JG ran past just one slower straggler he could have been outflanked then blind sided while pursuing/encountering one of the others.

This happened quickly,even a knowledgeable dirty cop would have a tough time leaving the gun clean,no trace of evidence.Could be that conditions degraded evidence...No gloves unless we're talking setup,but I'm not thinking that way.

The 1st shot's a glancing hit - quite possible in the middle of a chaotic situation-If Lt.JG turned,tried to flee,rushed his attacker etc,etc.
Somewhat stunned,he stumbled 100 feet before sustaining the 2nd shot.

The 2nd shot especially considering the location ? IMO left him face down,bleeding profusely,deader than disco.

After I selected "Reply with quote", only your comments remained. The comments of mine that you were replying to disappeared. I'm on my phone & didn't have patience to figure out how to reinsert them, sorry.

You make some good, creative suggestions. I can't deny that your scenario would be theoretically possible. If it happened anything like this, it would make a gripping scene for a Hollywood movie!

Hopefully there will be a press conference soon to add a few more pieces to this puzzle. Seems like the various evidence tests that were still being conducted should be done by now. And maybe they will release the results of the investigation of the chief and the inventories. Hard to believe it has been 1 1/2 months since this began.

 

[Chuz Life]

Interesting.

Do you really still not see how it is possible that the LT could have accidentally killed himself while trying to make it look like he had been attacked, disarmed and then shot in his bullet proof vest in the encounter?

Why is that any less believable than an intentional suicide or an assassination by some "dirty cop" would be?

bbm No, I'm sorry but I really don't see. He was too well knowledgeable about his weapons to make such a stupid mistake.

I've addressed this point before. Would you like to see some videos of weapons experts who should have known better - having accidents we never would have expected - with their guns?

He was not the type to be a drama queen.

I completely disagree with you on that. Everything from the police and military tats, to his training videos to his outspoken views on social media points to the fact that he was a drama queen.

He would know he would have to answer tons of questions.

List them.

I'm betting that I can role play him and answer them pretty well.

He would have done a better job staging because he would know those questions would be coming. I could go on...

See above.

If I had to put my theories in order of what I believe happened, it would look like this.

1) As first thought with 2MW, 1B. Just at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people.
2) Set up. As in someone wanted him gone.
3) Suicide.
4) through 20). other scenarios.
21) accidental suicide

:facepalm:

I never said anything about a"dirty cop". You quoted that as if I said that. In fact I even pointed to other things not job related. Even if I did, it's not off the table for me. Nothing is.

It was never my intentions to attribute that quote to you personally. I may have used your post to address that issue - expecting that those who are still thinking the Lt was killed by a "dirty cop" would also see it.

 

[Chuz Life]

That would depend on the story line he might have been trying to create. Wouldn't it?

He might - if he thought it might make him look even more like a survivor and a badass.

How do you figure? There are plenty of people here that a completely willing and eager to believe that someone (maybe even a dirty cop) could easily have taken his weapon and shot him with it. I for one do not see it being that believable - but apparently is fairly easy for others to accept it, even with no evidence of others at the crime scene at all.

Who knows if the LT had time to find and use another gun in this time frame? I agree that there are a lot of things he could have done differently to make it look like he was ambushed. However, that doesn't mean he didn't just try to do a rush job and do the best he could do with what he had - either.

For what it's worth, the more this case develops the more I'm leaning towards the conclusion that this was an intended suicide - staged to look like he was killed in the line of duty. However, I would still much rather believe that his death was unintentional.

Why would you be more content with a accidental suicide rather than a simple suicide.

I'm content no matter what the findings are.

I said that I would "rather" it be un-intentional. And, that is because I don't like the thought of anyone intentionally killing themself.

A accidental is more sadder imo.

I don't see how. Intentional suicides leave surviving friends and family wondering WHY the deceased didn't come to them for help before deciding to kill themself. That's a horrible feeling of helplessness to inflict on people who cared and would have tried to help.

Plus it's more fraudulently planned for more selfish reasons.

I see fraud in either case (staged to look like an assault vs. staged to look like a KIA,) though being killed in action means much more money to the survivors and that is already a key issue in this case.

At least a suicide would mean that it was less of fraudulent thinking involved in advance. Jmo

But it wasn't a simple suicide.

If it was, he could have just walked off into the woods, shot himself and the ensuing manhunt never would have taken place. Instead, he reported three suspects who most likely were completely fabricated and he tried to make it look like he was shot in the line of duty.

Personally, I see more fraud in something like that.

 

[Chuz Life]

As for "Mister Essy" -- Put the letters of the two words together; remove the first 'e' and the only 'y'.

Hmmmm.

I mentioned that as a possibility in one of my very first posts on these threads. I'm surprised we haven't had more speculation about it.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I'm content no matter what the findings are.

I said that I would "rather" it be un-intentional. And, that is because I don't like the thought of anyone intentionally killing themself.



I don't see how. Intentional suicides leave surviving friends and family wondering WHY the deceased didn't come to them for help before deciding to kill themself. That's a horrible feeling of helplessness to inflict on people who cared and would have tried to help.



I see fraud in either case (staged to look like an assault vs. staged to look like a KIA,) though being killed in action means much more money to the survivors and that is already a key issue in this case.



But it wasn't a simple suicide.

If it was, he could have just walked off into the woods, shot himself and the ensuing manhunt never would have taken place. Instead, he reported three suspects who most likely were completely fabricated and he tried to make it look like he was shot in the line of duty.

Personally, I see more fraud in something like that.

An accidental means he didn't want to die. A intentional means he did.

But you are right. It's sad either way. Sometimes i feel guilty about posting and questioning on people's demises.

Which makes me a hypocrit; because i wouldn't want my self or my family sluethed here during death.

So on that note. I just hope the coroner put undetermined for the moment and let this die out in the media. And let them finish this behind closed doors unless it is deemed a homicide. Jmo

 

[Chuz Life]

An accidental means he didn't want to die. A intentional means he did.

But you are right. It's sad either way.

Thanks.

Sometimes i feel guilty about posting and questioning on people's demises.

Here too. So, I try to keep as much respect for the families as I can while still trying to make my observations known.

Which makes me a hypocrit; because i wouldn't want my self or my family sluethed here during death.

I wouldn't mind in my case. I see a lot of good thinkers here.

So on that note. I just hope the coroner put undetermined for the moment and let this die out in the media. And let them finish this behind closed doors unless it is deemed a homicide. Jmo

It's already died in the MSM. Hasn't it?

 

[DexterMorgan]

Thanks.



Here too. So, I try to keep as much respect for the families as I can while still trying to make my observations known.



I wouldn't mind in my case. I see a lot of good thinkers here.



It's already died in the MSM. Hasn't it?

Until the coroner states the m.o.d it isn't over. Plus depending on the opposition of what he states; It isn't over. Lol.

But I agree on the rest.

 

[Walker007]

I am still trying to process this info. The Lt. was the officer who shoved the drunk around?

Then why did he apply for the other local Chief of Police Jobs, right after being suspended? That does not seem very rational.

I am not sure what Mister Essy means. LOL I even tried urban dictionary.

I can't confirm that as fact. I can only pass on the information that was given to me from my brother. Trust me, I was more dumbfounded as he was telling me as I think everyone here knows I have been more pro homicide theory. But he seemed very firm as that is what was told to him exactly from the aforementioned family connections etc..

However, with that being said.... I am still weighing both scenarios openly. Though, Suicide has jumped a few notches higher to equal level of homicide.
I will play devils advocate on a suicide theory.

If we are thinking the December, prisoner scenario, he had an injured arm, where injury occurred before December. Not sure if the times make sense. What if the prisoner situation happened after December, like as in not in December but more recent? Because everything is soooo transparent. :thinking: Just a thought. Was pointed out that said Officer was 17 year vet, which is checkmark against this info. But thats not to say there weren't two officers involved and one was in trouble and say the other (Lt) was not and this later came out? Which makes for further reasoning to put Chief on admin leave, for not investigating his friend the LT? I am just talking out loud here.

If Joe was involved in this, didn't get investigated properly, but was asked to assist with investigation into Chief, save face and retire quietly at the end of month. Does correlate with the Mayor saying Joe was going to retire at end of month. So he supposed to stay on and investigate and then retire in a few weeks time? The story doesn't add up. But it might in this circumstance. Furthermore, explains his concern over the Explorers continuing on.


I don't think Joe would have felt good about taking down the Chief, but lets say the scenario is true and they wanted Joe in turn to retire peacefully as long as he helped nail his friend the chief to the cross? That is like a Snitches get stitches scenario. The mobsters goes to jail before they snitch and the ones who end up in the slammer, snitch are shamed. I have to wonder if he was that conflicted over going down as a snitch to his 30 year friend or going out like a hero. The BLUE line is as thick as the family can be. Reading through his FB, it is crystal clear he is friends with the Chief, calls him by first name. Even made a comment about the movie "End of Watch" in reference to him and the Chief. If it was a hero scenario and it was a staged suicide, in his mind, did he set it up to benefit everyone else but himself, he lost, he dies, if so then he darn well pulled that off as creating a large cloud of suspicion making the investigation very complicated. Again, I stand by Joe as a serving others type. That doesn't mean he didn't have issues. It's life, everyone has issues.

So, I guess I could see a suicide in this scenario. Self-sacrifice to serve others? And Save face.
Committing Suicide:
1) Does not have to participate in taking down 30 year friend the Chief. Chief perhaps goes free without penalty.
2) Does not have to suffer humiliation for self for having role in issue of Chief, who town adores in addition to himself. Is not known to be complicit to the jail situation as potential participant
3) Family benefits to financial stability that provides in line of duty death
4) Goes out like a hero
5) It's still a selfish move irregardless because if that was the case then look at the chaos, his family, community, manpower, tax dollars and more. In addition to tax payers paying for the internal investigation. And the more I think about it. I don't see him running any investigation internally, he may have again been assisting, like in being a good cooperative "witness"...

One other thought to this that I could see as a set up homicide. Based on this info.
I don't think the MRS was very pleased with some things if based on the aforementioned information. This is not new news either as have heard this elsewhere but coming from him without me ever saying a word, was just another source. Can tell from FB she is still social with Mrs Chief, publicly as soon as within last week or so. Was Joe going to cooperate and Chief got wind of this?

Sometimes, it's as simple as who benefits the most from a death? Other times, it's a tragic accident and while some others its a utter and total tragedy.

 

[Japple]

Chuz, Don't take it personally, but I just dont see accidental suicide as clearly as you seem to. I stated my reasons. I've already read yours. Many times. I'm not going any further with this because i've said what needs to be said about it. I'm not getting into any role play Q and A. Because thats just weird, imo, and brings speculation to a whole different level. :facepalm:

 

[Chuz Life]

Chuz, Don't take it personally, but I just dont see accidental suicide as clearly as you seem to. I stated my reasons. I've already read yours. Many times. I'm not going any further with this because i've said what needs to be said about it. I'm not getting into any role play Q and A. Because thats just weird, imo, and brings speculation to a whole different level. :facepalm:

As you wish.

I don't see it as weird to role play. It's not much different from playing devil's advocate. It requires a lot of intuition and empathy. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it's an effective investigative tool used by actual (professional) sleuthers.

 

[Cubby]

Ok. I don't see Lt CG offing himself to avoid ratting someone out. He could have retired and just refused to cooperate.

My eyes have been opened to other possibilities.....It would be interesting to know when the last time Lt. CG spoke with the former chief. What if.....and this a huge what if.....Lt. CG arrived early Tues am to meet with the former chief? Between him and the mayor my hinky meters up....Somethings odd and it wiĺ be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Chuz Life]

Ok. I don't see Lt CG offing himself to avoid ratting someone out. He could have retired and just refused to cooperate.

My eyes have been opened to other possibilities.....It would be interesting to know when the last time Lt. CG spoke with the former chief. What if.....and this a huge what if.....Lt. CG arrived early Tues am to meet with the former chief? Between him and the mayor my hinky meters up....Somethings odd and it wiĺ be interesting to see how this plays out.

The list of reasons for why the Lt may have committed suicide is much longer than that.

 

[Walker007]

Ok. I don't see Lt CG offing himself to avoid ratting someone out. He could have retired and just refused to cooperate.

My eyes have been opened to other possibilities.....It would be interesting to know when the last time Lt. CG spoke with the former chief. What if.....and this a huge what if.....Lt. CG arrived early Tues am to meet with the former chief? Between him and the mayor my hinky meters up....Somethings odd and it wiĺ be interesting to see how this plays out.

I just had another thought!!! What if he just felt immense guilt because the Chief was in trouble for not disciplining him, meaning Joe. And that was why the Chief was in trouble. Let's go back to December. Then the following month or so, about 4 officers were on suspension. IIRC< the officer JB was on suspension the longest, and I believe he started in 1998 which is about 17 years. I need to double check that but I am almost certain. I am not saying just one thing is some reason for suicide, also trying to figure additional scenarios to contributing factors to this mystery.

EDIT TO ADD: If Joe was LT in charge during the shift it happened. Let's say the other officers were disciplined, but JOE also played a role in it, as my brother indicated. If Joe was not disciplined, the other officers were, and it later comes in the form of complaints from those officer and/or a pending suit by prisoner which enlighten fact of Joe role and Chief bypassed Joe. Food for thought.

 

[longlonglake]

I have been thinking about the word Mister Essy.Does that mean MISStressy or MISTERessy. I would think there are two ways it could be taken.

 

[Cubby]

The list of reasons for why the Lt may have committed suicide is much longer than that.

I 'm not thinking about why he may have committed suicide. I'm still pondering who could get close enough to Lt. CG they could gain control of his weapon and the 90 minute meeting with the mayor. The mayor's comment about asking Joe if he could hold his gun....just seems so odd.

Does anyone remember when the mayor said that?

Suicide still seems like the,most obvious outcome but I am still considering how to piece together the other options/theories.

 

[Walker007]

I have been thinking about the word Mister Essy.Does that mean MISStressy or MISTERessy. I would think there are two ways it could be taken.

The first one. Drop the Y and the first S.

 

[Chuz Life]

"The investigation of Lt. Gliniewicz's death proceeds even as parallel investigations that began months ago at the Fox Lake Police Department continue. Those internal investigations of possible police misconduct resulted in the chief's resignation last month and there are still many unanswered questions in that case.

The task force commander says police also have not discounted that the Lt. Gliniewicz shooting is in some way possibly connected to that internal investigation."

 

[Walker007]

I 'm not thinking about why he may have committed suicide. I'm still pondering who could get close enough to Lt. CG they could gain control of his weapon and the 90 minute meeting with the mayor. The mayor's comment about asking Joe if he could hold his gun....just seems so odd.

Does anyone remember when the mayor said that?

Suicide still seems like the,most obvious outcome but I am still considering how to piece together the other options/theories.

Yes, I agree. It also struck me. I wrote a diatribe on the Mayor in my notes. Not forum friendly. Though, with really delving back on LT on FB, farther than I had gone before. Those other things he said, he really did post those things all the time. Vertical and Caffeinating, Roger that....I had a moment of guilt on the Mayor end as I was harsh on him. I still think he is not coming forward with all he knows and has some guilt for some reason or another. Whether that be his conscious, not responding back, feeling complicit or played a role in his mind indirectly or directly had involvement.

I like multi-role theories Cubby

 

[Walker007]

"The investigation of Lt. Gliniewicz's death proceeds even as parallel investigations that began months ago at the Fox Lake Police Department continue. Those internal investigations of possible police misconduct resulted in the chief's resignation last month and there are still many unanswered questions in that case.

The task force commander says police also have not discounted that the Lt. Gliniewicz shooting is in some way possibly connected to that internal investigation."

He stated those investigationS started months ago. Like as in not mid-august. Interesting.

The investigation of Lt. Gliniewicz's death proceeds even as parallel investigations that began months ago at the Fox Lake Police Department continue. Those internal investigations of possible police misconduct resulted in the chief's resignation last month and there are still many unanswered questions in that case.