IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #5

[Chuz Life]

No. not a 4th suspect. Omg, I posted this already. Someone who happened upon the scene after he radio'd the three in and believed that person was there to help with back up. Someone he believed was there for back up or to help him. Someone who he wouldn't have 'the stance' with.... someone who he felt comfortable around that he trusted. You guys know the stance, the one cops have when speaking to someone and they are kind of on the defense when they first talk to a person.....

I hope that makes sense. It's the same one/single theory I have had all along on how someone could get close enough to him to gain control of his weapon.

hth

I love a good conspiracy theory, Cubby and I've been giving this one of yours some thought like I said I would. I do have to say it's not easy for me because I have my own theories. So, I'm trying to start with a blank slate.

For starters, we have to consider the little evidence that we do have that's not likely to change.

We have the recorded radio traffic and the GPS evidence which pretty much sets the timeline.

As far as this particular theory of yours, we have to assume that the Lt's radio traffic was genuine. That he really did see three individuals at the old concrete plant and he really was going to investigate the three of them.

The time between the moment the Lt said to go ahead and send backup (7:55 am) and the time that backup officers reported their arrival (8:01) was only about 6 minutes. I understand that your theory was that this was a deliberate hit but it would also have to be a HUGE crime of opportunity because the attacker had only about 6 minutes to get the Lt's gun, shoot him twice in two different locations 100 feet apart and then either escape with the original three suspects or to inconspicuously blend in with the other arriving backups without raising any suspicious even in the days and now weeks after.

And how do we explain the fact that the Lt. did not use his radio to alert dispatch at any time between the two shots?

Indeed, what about the original three suspects and their part in this. Imagine one or more of them seeing one cop shoot another. Don't you think at least one of them would come forward with that information? Especially for the reward money?

I'm sorry but I just see too many holes in the time line for it to be a fit for me.

 

[DexterMorgan]

For me personally, homicide makes more sense than suicide, unless I find out he was under serious investigation for major wrongdoing. But if not then I do not believe he would leave his 4 sons so tragically just because he was only getting 75% of his pay. Plenty of people retire and find a way to earn that 25% back to supplement. And I don't think that multiple people had to be in on it. One other person could have pulled it off, imo. JMO

Also, it would not be seen as the 'murder of a colleague. ' It would be self-preservation against a potential whistle blower, imo.

KD23. Makes sense. But he would have struggled with a cop he knew he was about to snitch on. Plus who snitches on the last month.

Plus wouldn't he wear a wire and meet somewhere in a public setting. So imo. If that was actually LT talking to dispatch. Then I still would say suicide. Jmo. But your theory is definitely still plausible at the moment.

 

[DexterMorgan]

rsbm

Call me old school, but murder is murder, and I don't care if a colleague thinks of it as self-preservation.

Let's not forget that police officers are more likely to kill themselves than members of the general public. And people kill themselves every hour of every day knowing full well that it will hurt those who love them. They do it even though nobody expects them to do so.

This suicide (if that is the case) also appears to many to have been staged to look like he was killed in the line of duty, which could be seen as a way of providing for his family while still satisfying a deep personal need.

And regardless of this case, I think that homicide is more horrible than suicide. As awful as a decision as it is, it is still one's own decision.

I must admit. Everything does seem self staged. I doubt he would miss roll call just to hang out in that area nor to meet someone in that area. Roll call is not that long.

And since backup seen Zero people in the area. Tells me that area is not that grundgy with a tent city lifestyle.

They didn't see a prostitute nor john nor crackhead nor meth dealer nor average citizen while pulling up there. So if the area was that bad where he felt a duty to be there. Then where are the questionable witnesses and how did they all dissappear that quickly without backup seeing anyone at all in the area. Jmo. He knew it was the perfect spot.

 

[Walker007]

Chuz, if you go and read the scanner notes you will see.
Officer 1 dispatched. Arrives 5 mins later
Officer 2 inserts they in route. Arrives 2 mins and some seconds
Then out of nowhere Officer 3 pipes in they at the plant. Less than 60 seconds after lt last radio by LT.

 

[Chuz Life]

Chuz, if you go and read the scanner notes you will see.
Officer 1 dispatched. Arrives 5 mins later
Officer 2 inserts they in route. Arrives 2 mins and some seconds
Then out of nowhere Officer 3 pipes in they at the plant. Less than 60 seconds after lt last radio by LT.

I'll have to pick this up later (tomorrow).

Thanks.

 

[vestigare]

Something that's interesting to me is that some people can't fathom that this officer could kill himself, but can entertain the possibility of a conspiracy in which multiple officers are involved in the murder of a colleague.

Agree.
I just scroll and roll because I just can't.....no, I can't...

 

[vestigare]

We in this case means the people he works with. They didn't all go get a sandwich but they do go out there sometimes and they were present at the shop when it was happening.

For anyone interested, here is a source on Statement Analysis.

"It is reported that up to 70% of existing police files on unsolved cases have a "confession by pronoun" contained within them. Some believe this number is even higher."

Possessive Pronoun
In studies, we look at "confession by pronoun" where the various subjects have, inadvertently, used "we" to connect himself to the criminal.

In Statement Analysis, we know that truthful people recall from memory meaning that they can recite backwards and forwards what happened, but deceptive people are noted because sometimes they mix up order. When something is out of order, it is a red flag for deception.

http://.blogspot.com/2012/10/pronouns-and-confessions.html

Yeah, I had left to go and get a sandwich and When I came back his car was there and the ambulance was pulling in
So We We just missed it. We were outside it happened actually.
None We didn’t hear none of that.
No When I seen it.
well actually We the actually the camera system is not working
We don’t have anything that would help them as far as where they were
We walk back there sometimes
They didn’t have ah they had at least 20 minutes or so they said

I am not an expert but my take.
He used "I" when he spoke about leaving to go and get the sandwich. And continued to use "I" when he returned. He then shifts into using "we" just missed it. But we know he used "I" when going to get a sandwich, and when he returned, which to me indicated this part is truthful. That he alone may have left. He then further, changes sequence back to "We" in stating they were outside when it happened. To me, this is a red flag. Change of sequence. And the continuation of the use of "We". Who is "we"? I am tired. Have to go to bed. Night All.

 

[looking4OPH]

We in this case means the people he works with. They didn't all go get a sandwich but they do go out there sometimes and they were present at the shop when it was happening.

That is exactly how I took "we" and his description of the events. It was he and his work buddies, once he got back from getting breakfast. The odd part to me was getting a "sandwich" for breakfast, unless they were 3rd shift workers and it was lunch at breakfast time. Yes, there are breakfast sandwiches, but not usually how I hear that meal referred to.

 

[cady]

Something that's interesting to me is that some people can't fathom that this officer could kill himself, but can entertain the possibility of a conspiracy in which multiple officers are involved in the murder of a colleague.

And, of course, none of the conspiring officers were themselves being investigated...and they were all involved with the Explorers too...c'mon, It certainly appears that CG was in trouble for something amiss with the Explorers and/or
inventory. Is Mrs. G still an Explorers advisor? JMO
ADD. If a person who is held in such high heroic regard by his community is then about to be publicly shamed, a motive for a suicide staged as an act of heroism, if gotten away with, is the ticket out. JUST MY OPINION

 

[Elley Mae]

First, there is no need to serial post the same question.... I'll find it. I can't always reply right away even if I am logged in reading.

I know how a radio works. My thoughts were something should have been heard if he was interupted... early msm reported this as if he were on the radio while they lost contact. I don't know how else to explain it. I already did that when I posted (on the last thread) that perhaps it was MSM hype making it appear as if he were interupted......

Is that clear enough?


GO CUBS!

Evidently it was, the other thread was closed and you didn't answer, yet thanked some post before it happened. And I never heard he was on the radio in msm, do you have a link for that? jmo idk If you don't respond I'll understand.

 

[Elley Mae]

Hale said Boy Scouts officials spoke briefly with Fox Lake police last Thursday and were asked what the program needed in order to carry on. Hale said the post doesn't have enough leaders under Boy Scouts requirements to continue without Gliniewicz.

"Right now, we're on hold until the police department says, 'We're a go, and here's our new leader,'" Hale said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...rs-st-1013-20151012-story.html#navtype=outfit

This make perfect sense to me, I don't see anything to cause concern.

 

[Elley Mae]

Curious, exactly when did the whole suicide thing even begin? and why are fellow officer's being brought into it? Starting to feel like I am in a writing class or something. jmo idk Maybe it was aliens. jmo idk

 

[cady]

If Joe knew, way back last spring, that his leaving the Fox Lake PD would mean that his Explorers Post would require new leadership, then, because it was so dear to his heart, I think that he would have planned for the transition in leadership for it, so it would run smoothly. I think that his leadership role was abruptly curtailed, not by his death, but because of an inventory investigation. I suspect that this was what was discussed with the mayor. Of course, I don't KNOW, I just suspect. CG's death was shocking enough for those kids, but it's sad that their Post is in limbo. JMO

 

[Cubby]

Evidently it was, the other thread was closed and you didn't answer, yet thanked some post before it happened. And I never heard he was on the radio in msm, do you have a link for that? jmo idk If you don't respond I'll understand.

The radio call is all over the scanner thread. It's been transcribed....remember the 3 suspicious suspects he followed into the swamp? That was via radio.

 

[Elley Mae]

Cubby, Yeah and it was the last contact dispatch had. This had to do with you saying that dispatch should have heard something over the radio in reference to the struggle,. nothing more nothing less. I said unless he had the button was engaged dispatch will hear nothing. I don't have to listen/read scanner to know that. jmo idk

 

[bessie]

:seeya:

ADMIN NOTE: Guys, you can't make accusations against specific individuals who have not been named as suspects.

 

[cady]

???Did the Explorers have equipment that was not approved by, or the cost of which exceeded the disbursements allowed by the Boys Club? If so, how would it have been acquired? Could be perfectly legal purchases or donations, but not purchased or approved by Boys Club.???? It was my understanding that the Explorers did help out at events, and maybe they were not paid in money, but in equipment? ALL SPECULATION.........JMO

 

[Tillicum]

Something that's interesting to me is that some people can't fathom that this officer could kill himself, but can entertain the possibility of a conspiracy in which multiple officers are involved in the murder of a colleague.

I can fathom that Lt CG could kill himself. IMO that would be between him and his maker. It's the staging and the level of deceit he would have to be guilty of that I find hard to believe and beyond disappointing, if true.

Because of his training and years of experience he should've known that the investigation would bring the truth and his manipulations and dishonesty to light. He should've known he couldn't pull it off in that manner and his friends and loved ones would be left with the shame of his actions, not to mention the lack of financial support (line of duty) IMO.

Both Rudd and Filenko have said they're investigating this as a homicide but looking at all possibilities. If this is a homicide how did someone get the drop on this well trained, experienced officer? IMO he probably trusted someone and had his guard down. This is where the possibility of another officer comes in for me.

 

[vestigare]

I have been known to pick up a sandwich in the morning to eat at lunch. We also should allow for the possibility this guy was lying about exactly what he did on his break NOT because he's killed Joe but because it was something his co-workers had no business knowing. So he could have just used the sandwich as an excuse.

That is exactly how I took "we" and his description of the events. It was he and his work buddies, once he got back from getting breakfast. The odd part to me was getting a "sandwich" for breakfast, unless they were 3rd shift workers and it was lunch at breakfast time. Yes, there are breakfast sandwiches, but not usually how I hear that meal referred to.

 

[vestigare]

[



The cause for concern was the reasoning Bayless gave for why the doors were locked.
They are giving two totally different reasons and both don't look good for Joe and how he ran that program.

Even this reason they just elaborated on makes no sense and makes Joe look odd because supposedly joe knew he was leaving the program and was concerned about it but he didn't set up a successor? The charter decides on the leader not the Boy Scouts.

So this statement did nothing but add more concern for me.

Hale said Boy Scouts officials spoke briefly with Fox Lake police last Thursday and were asked what the program needed in order to carry on. Hale said the post doesn't have enough leaders under Boy Scouts requirements to continue without Gliniewicz.

"Right now, we're on hold until the police department says, 'We're a go, and here's our new leader,'" Hale said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...rs-st-1013-20151012-story.html#navtype=outfit

This make perfect sense to me, I don't see anything to cause concern.