Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #10 *Still Missing*

[tresir2012]

Then why keep it ?

Perhaps he wanted to get caught?
Told his wife he wanted to kill, told counsellors he had homicidal thoughts and had bought stuff, caught on CCTV and phone and text records plus internet search history, told his girlfriend afterwards, kept the murder weapon. He's probably kept the body too, hidden where only he knows. He didn't cover his tracks at all except for where he put the body. Admitted to kidnapping,killing and disposing of her at trial but pleads not guilty nevertheless.

I think he wanted to get caught and didn't want to do it again. If it is true he has killed 12 others and never got caught, this is even more remarkable he got caught, if he is so good at it. Obviously, I don't believe there are prior victims. MOO.

 

[dm92]

Then why keep it ?

Because he’s an idiot. Because he thought Michelle might notice it was missing. Because he thought he cleaned it off well enough. Because he thought they would never be able to connect him to the crime. It would have been so easy to just toss it in to the duffel bag when he decided he needed to get rid of the bag...

Whatever his reasoning, it was stupid.....

 

[Laughing]

Perhaps he wanted to get caught?
Told his wife he wanted to kill, told counsellors he had homicidal thoughts and had bought stuff, caught on CCTV and phone and text records plus internet search history, told his girlfriend afterwards, kept the murder weapon. He's probably kept the body too, hidden where only he knows. He didn't cover his tracks at all except for where he put the body. Admitted to kidnapping,killing and disposing of her at trial but pleads not guilty nevertheless.

I think he wanted to get caught and didn't want to do it again. If it is true he has killed 12 others and never got caught, this is even more remarkable he got caught, if he is so good at it. Obviously, I don't believe there are prior victims. MOO.

Oh, yeah, I can totally see this!!!

and BC will never, ever, have to Adult again! No wage-earning, no bill-paying, no car regististration, no laundry, no dishes, no cleaning, no responsibility.

BC left big breadcrumbs so anyone could follow.

Yeah, I agree, he wanted to be permanently off the hook so he arranged a heinous crime & essentially arranged being caught.


JMHO YMMV

 

[dm92]

Random thought #1

This past Friday, when Michelle testified, the prosecution made a big deal about asking if BC asked her to wear a red top when she testified. Everyone focused in on using this to try and show BC is controlling MZ. That may be, and I understand why people would think this, but what I wondered about immediately was, “why red?” Initially, I figured it was just because it would stand out and he would easily notice that she had complied.....

But then I remembered something. On a couple of occasions back in 2017 when there were events recognizing YY’s disappearance, the family asked that attendees NOT wear red. Red, evidently is associated with weddings and joyous festivities. The last thing Yingying’s mother would want to be reminded of was weddings

It might be just a coincidence, but I wonder if he was trying to insult them yet again by having Michelle wear red.....

 

[kittythehare]

Random thought #1

This past Friday, when Michelle testified, the prosecution made a big deal about asking if BC asked her to wear a red top when she testified. Everyone focused in on using this to try and show BC is controlling MZ. That may be, and I understand why people would think this, but what I wondered about immediately was, “why red?” Initially, I figured it was just because it would stand out and he would easily notice that she had complied.....

But then I remembered something. On a couple of occasions back in 2017 when there were events recognizing YY’s disappearance, the family asked that attendees NOT wear red. Red, evidently is associated with weddings and joyous festivities. The last thing Yingying’s mother would want to be reminded of was weddings

It might be just a coincidence, but I wonder if he was trying to insult them yet again by having Michelle wear red.....

Could be.
Also it's possible he has, in his own mind advanced his Akumo status

Akumo

His conversations with Michelle referred to 'us' and 'our' (lawyers)

He believes she is in there with him 100%...

I don't imagine the 'migraine' came out of nowhere... there could be drama...

 

[dm92]

Random thought #2

Once again, we are discussing where he put her body. Most recent post I saw mentions putting her in a prepared grave in a cemetery, cove4ing her over with a bit of dirt, and the the person intended for the grave would be put over the top of her, effectively sealing her remains. Again, remember, he was interested in a plea deal, but tried to amend it to not require recovery of her remains, and only that he provide information on what he did. When asked, his lawyers indicated it was not possible to guarantee recovery of her remains, even with BC’s assistance. So, for someplace like a cemetery, or Johnson-Ross, that would be a specific location, and he would be confident they could be recovered. Thus, it stands to reason he would have taken a plea deal if he had done something like this.

Yes, it’s always possible he really doesn’t wan5 people to find her. Yes, it’s possible he wants the death penalty. If that’s the case, though, why even entertain a plea deal and try to negotiate with the Feds? Why not just say, when approached, “F-off. I’m not telling anyone anything.”

Yes, criminals lie. BC has lied during this investigation. Liars can lie about anything, but that doesn’t mean they lie about everything. Simplest explanation is he’s telling the truth, and he destroyed her, or he chopped her up and dispersed her.

In that ligh5, I thought of another thing he could have done. A few blocks down from Stonegate, just to the west of Kaufmann Lake, there is a masonry supply company and cement mixing facility. They mix cement there and dispense it into cement trucks. While I don’t think he could gel access to it, it is possible that he chopped her up and somehow got her into a cement mixer, where her parts would be mangled and broken up further, and she would eventually be dispersed into cement trucks, and taken out to construction sites across the area.

I don’t know if he did any cement work, but BC did work construction for a while, and he might be familiar enough with handling concrete that this would be feasible for him.

 

[kittythehare]

Random thought #2

Once again, we are discussing where he put her body. Most recent post I saw mentions putting her in a prepared grave in a cemetery, cove4ing her over with a bit of dirt, and the the person intended for the grave would be put over the top of her, effectively sealing her remains. Again, remember, he was interested in a plea deal, but tried to amend it to not require recovery of her remains, and only that he provide information on what he did. When asked, his lawyers indicated it was not possible to guarantee recovery of her remains, even with BC’s assistance. So, for someplace like a cemetery, or Johnson-Ross, that would be a specific location, and he would be confident they could be recovered. Thus, it stands to reason he would have taken a plea deal if he had done something like this.

Yes, it’s always possible he really doesn’t wan5 people to find her. Yes, it’s possible he wants the death penalty. If that’s the case, though, why even entertain a plea deal and try to negotiate with the Feds? Why not just say, when approached, “F-off. I’m not telling anyone anything.”

Yes, criminals lie. BC has lied during this investigation. Liars can lie about anything, but that doesn’t mean they lie about everything. Simplest explanation is he’s telling the truth, and he destroyed her, or he chopped her up and dispersed her.

In that ligh5, I thought of another thing he could have done. A few blocks down from Stonegate, just to the west of Kaufmann Lake, there is a masonry supply company and cement mixing facility. They mix cement there and dispense it into cement trucks. While I don’t think he could gel access to it, it is possible that he chopped her up and somehow got her into a cement mixer, where her parts would be mangled and broken up further, and she would eventually be dispersed into cement trucks, and taken out to construction sites across the area.

I don’t know if he did any cement work, but BC did work construction for a while, and he might be familiar enough with handling concrete that this would be feasible for him.

It does not stand to reason that he would have taken a plea deal if she was recoverable because the seriousness of her injuries were probably far worse than what he related to TB.
It's possible she suffered a prolonged torture with implements, maybe substances...it's also possible she is 'interred' alongside other victims.
I think that is the main reason he is withholding the information, it's much worse than we know or he has said already.

We're left to fill in the blanks about the nature of his attack on her or his state of mind or his objectives.. is he, for example incel? Mother's alcoholism etc etc yada yada yada..

Was he in a rage while killing her?
was he enacting some type of black magic role?
We have his words but we do not have his meaning.
Some people have always resisted any notion that her body is locatable.
I have not because there is no evidence to suggest it is the case.

If they had been living near cliffs or mountains, I would say she is gone for sure....

If he cut her throat while she was still alive, he would have got her carotid artery which causes spurting with every heartbeat.. I've seen patients bleed out many times...

So cutting her throat, neck may not be the truth or cut it post mortem.
WHY?
Why decapitate her unless it was because he wanted her to fit in a small pre-prepared space?
or commit some acts of cannibalism?

He could have a bag of cement and gravel waiting at his burial site ready to just add water, mix and pour...
but- it's feeling like it's likely he kept trophies...

back to Bundy? anything specific stand out?

 

[dm92]

yeah, that and I think all other possibilities have been brought up here before... we just don't know which one he chose (and by the way there are a lot more abandoned buildings/houses around Champaign than just the J-Ross bldg., though I don't believe he took her to a bldg.). I think it's even just possible that the police more-or-less know what happened to the body (in a general way), but it is so grotesque they fear disclosing it would do even more harm to the Zhang family than not knowing at all.

RE: abandoned buildings. One of the FBI agents testified that they had checked a number of abandoned buildings in and around the Champaign area.

 

[kittythehare]

RE: abandoned buildings. One of the FBI agents testified that they had checked a number of abandoned buildings in and around the Champaign area.

Maybe check 'em again , I say.

 

[AnemoneBrown]

OMG! Interesting theory. That would make the whole "he didn't take his eyes off of her" make much more sense. He was enjoying the disrespect! I went back and found the family's request was well publicized. In fact, the announcement of the vigil was only three sentences and that request was one of them. You couldn't miss it.

"According to Chinese tradition, 100 days after a tragedy is a time to pay tribute. Out of respect for Chinese tradition, you're asked to avoid wearing the color red."

Vigil set for Yingying Zhang on the 100th day since she went missing

Yingying Zhang vigil scheduled for Sunday

Random thought #1

This past Friday, when Michelle testified, the prosecution made a big deal about asking if BC asked her to wear a red top when she testified. Everyone focused in on using this to try and show BC is controlling MZ. That may be, and I understand why people would think this, but what I wondered about immediately was, “why red?” Initially, I figured it was just because it would stand out and he would easily notice that she had complied.....

But then I remembered something. On a couple of occasions back in 2017 when there were events recognizing YY’s disappearance, the family asked that attendees NOT wear red. Red, evidently is associated with weddings and joyous festivities. The last thing Yingying’s mother would want to be reminded of was weddings

It might be just a coincidence, but I wonder if he was trying to insult them yet again by having Michelle wear red.....

 

[CUlocal]

There is every chance he did something like that.
We talked about it before as a possibility.
possibly also an old graveyard... open crypt.. a place that receives few visitors...
a graveyard is a place where a cadaver dog would be thoroughly confused and useless...
I don;t know if there are any within walking distance from his apartment..

Not to my knowledge, Kitty.. I can't think of any that close to his apartment. Not within walking distance.

 

[dm92]

Maybe check 'em again , I say.

Could not hurt. Things can be missed. Lots of examples of this in missing persons searches. A location was searched, then when searched again, the body popped up

 

[dm92]

OMG! Interesting theory. That would make the whole "he didn't take his eyes off of her" make much more sense. He was enjoying the disrespect! I went back and found the family's request was well publicized. In fact, the announcement of the vigil was only three sentences and that request was one of them. You couldn't miss it.

"According to Chinese tradition, 100 days after a tragedy is a time to pay tribute. Out of respect for Chinese tradition, you're asked to avoid wearing the color red."

Vigil set for Yingying Zhang on the 100th day since she went missing

Yingying Zhang vigil scheduled for Sunday

Yes, that is one of the vigils I was talking about. I was at that one. I seem to remember there was another event where they also asked attendees not to wear red, but I might be mistaken.

 

[kittythehare]

Not to my knowledge, Kitty.. I can't think of any that close to his apartment. Not within walking distance.

Thanks for checking that the way only a local person can.
Have you got any ideas at all as to location, bearing in mind there may be more than one...?
If he did indeed separate her parts.

I'm still quite mystified regarding his rationale for bringing her back to his apartment, he had wheels, gas and an open road and an immobilised passenger... why?
Have thought about this a lot and we talked about it a lot and the only idea came up with was that he required electricity for his plan... torture...
how much can a human endure while still living?
Ritualistic?
To make a video?
Not even her i-phone was recovered... nothing at all except her DNA

 

[dm92]

Another thing I remember from the very beginning of this case. It was mentioned the prosecution had hundreds of hours of video footage and had provided it to defence. They complained (that was when the complaining actually started IIRC) so what was all that footage and why didn't it come up in the trial at all? Anyone remember that also?

That was ALL the security camera footage from various areas on campus and around town that they gathered and reviewed for possible sightings of his vehicle on June 9th. It includes footage showing his car that we know about, but it also includes footage that shows nothing. The prosecution gave them all the footage that they gathered and reviewed during the investigation, including footage that does not show BC's vehicle.

They were almost certainly looking for footage that may have shown where he took her to get her under control and in the bag before taking her to the apartment. Her last cellphone ping was from a location near the railroad tracks near downtown Champaign. I remember talking to someone who works in a warehouse near the tracks near the downtown area, and he said that a few days after the 9th, the FBI came in and requested a copy of their outdoor security camera footage from the 9th. Presumably that footage is included in all the camera recordings they have, even though it apparently showed nothing. They still collected it and reviewed it, and following discovery rules, turned it over to the defense.

 

[dm92]

I'm still quite mystified regarding his rationale for bringing her back to his apartment, he had wheels, gas and an open road and an immobilised passenger... why?

Because, with Michelle gone, there is no one around to interrupt or stop him, and it is essentially a safe house for him. He is in complete control, and has absolutely no worry of being interrupted -so long as he can keep the noise down such that no one will notice anything.

Even if he has chosen some other, external, secluded spot, there is ALWAYS the chance that someone could stumble across him, and then he has a SERIOUS problem on his hands. He has to get rid of that person too, or his game is up -and what if that person is just as big and strong as he is, or stronger? What if that person happens to be armed? What if it is two people who stumble across him or a group? In these cases, HE. IS. SCREWED.

His apartment is where he would be in complete control, and the absolute safest place for him to do this stuff.

 

[kittythehare]

#FFS

Motion for Reconsideration – #459 in United States v. Christensen (C.D. Ill., 2:17-cr-20037) – CourtListener.com

The pending civil lawsuit establishes the UICC witnesses’ interest in slanting their testimony against Mr. Christensen out of self-interest. Abel, 469 U.S. at 52. The Court accepted this proposition and allowed Mr. Christensen to question the UICC witnesses about the lawsuit to show their bias. But the Court went wrong in denying Mr. Christensen’s request to admit the civil complaint. It is absolute, black letter law that Mr. Christensen can use extrinsic evidence to establish bias. It is also absolute, black letter law that the issue of bias is never a collateral issue. Accordingly, concerns of juror confusion or waste of time cannot prevent Mr. Christensen from introducing the civil complaint. Evidence of bias does not create juror confusion – it provides jurors with the information they need to access a witness’ credibility

That civil lawsuit is all over the shop... it's entirely the appointment with the rehab centre which was actually the required solution for his stated problems, if not his real problems...
@AnemoneBrown you posted a link the other night that contained a link to the lawsuit... If, just IF it is easy for you to link it, it's possible others have not yet seen it, please?

 

[AnemoneBrown]

This is indeed fascinating. Apparently, these type of killers offend and dump in places where they feel comfortable. Since BC was a recluse, I would imagine his apartment is where he felt most at ease. The problem becomes:
1) You cannot dispose of a body relatively quickly in an apartment, especially in a large complex
2) If he feels unsure outside of his apartment, how can he be sure she will never be found?

Bottom line, (1) He abducted YYZ on campus; a place well known to him. (He could've gone to Ohio or Indiana to lure and abduct someone since MZ was out of town); (2) He raped, tortured, and likely killed in his apartment; (3) It stands to reason he would've disposed of the victim's body in a place well known to him.

Of course, it is possible he put her in a place unknown to him but not probable.

Taken altogether, the dumpster in the apartment complex makes the most sense, but with so many neighbors, in a college town, and on a weekend, I don't know how he would've put her in there without being noticed or for a neighbor not to spot her before the trash was pick up later that week.

Thanks for checking that the way only a local person can.
Have you got any ideas at all as to location, bearing in mind there may be more than one...?
If he did indeed separate her parts.

I'm still quite mystified regarding his rationale for bringing her back to his apartment, he had wheels, gas and an open road and an immobilised passenger... why?
Have thought about this a lot and we talked about it a lot and the only idea came up with was that he required electricity for his plan... torture...
how much can a human endure while still living?
Ritualistic?
To make a video?
Not even her i-phone was recovered... nothing at all except her DNA

 

[kittythehare]

Because, with Michelle gone, there is no one around to interrupt or stop him, and it is essentially a safe house for him. He is in complete control, and has absolutely no worry of being interrupted -so long as he can keep the noise down such that no one will notice anything.

Even if he has chosen some other, external, secluded spot, there is ALWAYS the chance that someone could stumble across him, and then he has a SERIOUS problem on his hands. He has to get rid of that person too, or his game is up -and what if that person is just as big and strong as he is, or stronger? What if that person happens to be armed? What if it is two people who stumble across him or a group? In these cases, HE. IS. SCREWED.

His apartment is where he would be in complete control, and the absolute safest place for him to do this stuff.

He knew the countryside, it would have been a helluva lot easier to take her to a secluded part of that. He could have done it all except any action requiring electricity or running water, he could have buried her alive, in fact...

 

[kittythehare]

This is indeed fascinating. Apparently, these type of killer offends and dumps in places where they feel comfortable. Since BC was a recluse, I would imagine his apartment is where he felt most at ease. The problem becomes:
1) You cannot dispose of a body relatively quickly in an apartment, especially in a large complex
2) If he feels unsure outside of his apartment, how can he be sure she will never be found?

Bottom line, (1) He abducted YYZ on campus; a place well known to him. (He could've gone to, say( Ohio to lure and abduct someone since MZ was out of town); (2) He raped, tortured, and likely killed in his apartment; (3) It stands to reason he would've disposed of the victim's body in a place well known to him.

Of course, it is possible he put her in a place unknown but not probable.

Taken altogether, the dumpster in the apartment complex makes the most sense but with so many neighbors, in a college town, and on a weekend I don't know how he would've put her in there without being noticed or for a neighbor not to spot her before the trash was pick up late than week.

We are TOLD he bought 'items' for her disposal, all we got is a single duffle bag and the possibility of a few plastic storage boxes which nobody bothered to investigate at the time..........or subsequently.

Were they associated with her remains, her disposal or his dinner or all 3?