Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #10 *Still Missing*

[kittythehare]

You got this part 100% right. Dumbass kept the baseball bat. He could have easily disposed of it.....

the baseball didn't get him convicted by itself, her dna in his bedroom did.
and although her dna was also on bat, it is not proof infinite that he used the bat in the way he said he used it on tape.
However, his convo with TB saying they had the bat caused him worry...
They would have had him with or without the bat.

 

[dm92]

the baseball didn't get him convicted by itself, her dna in his bedroom did.
and although her dna was also on bat, it is not proof infinite that he used the bat in the way he said he used it on tape.
However, his convo with TB saying they had the bat caused him worry...
They would have had him with or without the bat.

Two parts, because it is long...

You are right. The bat didn’t do it by itself, but it *is* a critical component. Plenty of her DNA in the apartment proved she was there, so the would have had him on the two counts of lying to the FBI, easy. Would the blood and DNA in the bedroom *alone* be enough to get him on kidnapping result8ng in death? Maybe, maybe not. Would the blood and DNA PLUS his words, PLUS all the info about the duffel bag, PLUS the bat and the DNA on it, PLUS the cadaver dog alerting in the bathroom, PLU the fact that she has not been seen or heard from since June 9th be enough? Yes.

Jurors are allowed to make inferences that something happened based on the evidence in hand and reasoning. If they weren’t allowed to do this, then the only way you could prove that he used the bat on her would be video of him using it on her, plus her blood/DNA on it. Heck, the only way you could *prove* she was killed would be her body with wounds on it as described, or video of her being killed.

Consider the use of the duffel bag. The government contends he used it to carry her into the apartment. We have more physical evidence showing he used the bat than we do showing he used the duffel bag. But we have plenty of evidence, coupled with reasoning, that allows a jury to infer that he used the bag to kidnap her:

1)Buys bag in March, returns it.
2)Tells Counseling Center he bought stuff to do a kidnapping-murder, but returned it.
3)Tries to set up consensual kidnapping, describes how he will use big duffel bag to do it.
4)Buys bag again, delivered June 6th.
5)Michelle sees him with the bag
6)He gets rid of the bag.

(END PART ONE)

 

[dm92]

(BEGIN PART TWO)

We don’t have the bag with her DNA in it, we don’t have video of him stuffing her in the bag and carrying her into the apartment with it.... but we have enough other evidence, coupled with reason, to infer that he used it to carry out a kidnapping.

Ditto for use of the bat:
1) a bat can be used as a deadly weapon
2) BC describes using the bat to kill her
3)They recovered a bat from his apartment
4)Luminol staining showed the bat had been cleaned
5) Luminol- positive patch on the bat contained her DNA
6) describes using bat to kill her in bathroom, cadaver dog alerts to corpse in bathroom
7) BC is worried about the bat, tells Bullis they have it.

With this evidence, it is reasonable to infer he used the bat on her.

The bat is critical for another reason: it’s the one piece of physical evidence they have to support the conclusion that he killed her.

1) He describes choking her for ten minutes. We have no physical evidence he did this.

2)He describes stabbing her in the neck, and cutting her head off. He had knives, but none could be linked to the crime. So there is no physical evidence that he did this.

3) He describes hitting her in the head with a baseball bat, breaking her head open. Lo and behold..... we have a bat, it has her DNA on it, and he cleaned it.

The bat alone didn’t get him convicted, but it was a critical piece, and it WILL be a critical piece to getting him executed, as it strongly supports the aggravator of severe physical abuse.

Yes, criminals lie. BC has lied during this 3nture event, and thus we will never know for certain exactly what happened in that apartment. But sometimes I think we over-emphasize his lying and let it lead us too far into doubt. Liars can lie about anything, but that doesn’t mean they lie about everything. I don’t think he’s lying about the bat, and should he be executed, that bat will have been a huge nail in his coffin.

 

[tresir2012]

People generally do gas up periodically.
Are you trying to imply that Michelle gassed up so that BC could use the car to bury a body he was about to kill?
Do you have any evidence at all to that effect?
I didn't find any and I'm all over it.
The police aren't stupid and if there was the slightest chance she was even remotely involved they would have found proof and charged her already

Instead why dont we put the speculation into a location for her remains?
She is still a missing person.
That's what her parents need most and they are victims here.
Now, just because there was half a tank of gas missing, it's quite possible this macabre creature used it for a more nefarious purpose than driving from A to B.

It is highly unlikely that sham of a penalty trial is going to lead to the discovery of her remains or even proof that they are irretrievably gone forever, no more than they will lead to a diagnosis of whatever psychiatric illness he deems to be flavor of the month.

The police didn't need Michelle for anything- they had no reason to protect her. She already tod them everything and those were the words BC used to Tb when describing Michelle's encounter with the police.
It did not lead to the discovery of her remains. It did not lead to the discovery that no remains exist any longer.

Bringing in new suspects will not help locate those remains.
That is what her parents need- her body or whatever is left of it, if anything.

The duffle bag was still there when she returned IIRC. What did she testify about that? Can you or anybody recap that? Something about a cat tree for TB?

 

[tresir2012]

We talked a bit about this already, not much.
BC was capable of doing anything, it seems.
Possibly incinerate, though would have needed more than half s tank, I would imagine..
He certainly didn't drink it, sadly, being a narcissist..
Could have used some of it to burn her clothes and personal items or body parts...possibly could easily have been done in those cornfields on a pyre without anybody noticing much..
then again, there is no evidence of any further movements by him on that or the following days...or the preceding night or day.

I think the FBI had the capability and the resources at that early stage to at least have checked that out...
It looks increasngly as though he did not move again in that car.
We have spent more than 2 full years examining every possible possibility and location.. we always came up empty.

Fresh thoughts or insights are needed.
The best possible thing would be to remove that power from him.
Then he would die inside.
His control would be gone absolutely.
Forever.

There is the 5 hours when his phone was disabled- when was that actually?

 

[AnemoneBrown]

Such a great post. Facts are only important because of the inferences that they permit. It looks like this jury was instructed correctly but so often juries do not understand the value of circumstantial evidence nor have the ability to make accurate inferences from facts. Again, I'm so relieved this jury was instructed correctly. Don't even get me started on how often juries deliberate thinking that 'beyond a reasonable doubt" means "beyond any doubt".

(BEGIN PART TWO)

We don’t have the bag with her DNA in it, we don’t have video of him stuffing her in the bag and carrying her into the apartment with it.... but we have enough other evidence, coupled with reason, to infer that he used it to carry out a kidnapping.

Ditto for use of the bat:
1) a bat can be used as a deadly weapon
2) BC describes using the bat to kill her
3)They recovered a bat from his apartment
4)Luminol staining showed the bat had been cleaned
5) Luminol- positive patch on the bat contained her DNA
6) describes using bat to kill her in bathroom, cadaver dog alerts to corpse in bathroom
7) BC is worried about the bat, tells Bullis they have it.

With this evidence, it is reasonable to infer he used the bat on her.

The bat is critical for another reason: it’s the one piece of physical evidence they have to support the conclusion that he killed her.

1) He describes choking her for ten minutes. We have no physical evidence he did this.

2)He describes stabbing her in the neck, and cutting her head off. He had knives, but none could be linked to the crime. So there is no physical evidence that he did this.

3) He describes hitting her in the head with a baseball bat, breaking her head open. Lo and behold..... we have a bat, it has her DNA on it, and he cleaned it.

The bat alone didn’t get him convicted, but it was a critical piece, and it WILL be a critical piece to getting him executed, as it strongly supports the aggravator of severe physical abuse.

Yes, criminals lie. BC has lied during this 3nture event, and thus we will never know for certain exactly what happened in that apartment. But sometimes I think we over-emphasize his lying and let it lead us too far into doubt. Liars can lie about anything, but that doesn’t mean they lie about everything. I don’t think he’s lying about the bat, and should he be executed, that bat will have been a huge nail in his coffin.

 

[tresir2012]

Another thing I remember from the very beginning of this case. It was mentioned the prosecution had hundreds of hours of video footage and had provided it to defence. They complained (that was when the complaining actually started IIRC) so what was all that footage and why didn't it come up in the trial at all? Anyone remember that also?

 

[Raptors001]

(BEGIN PART TWO)

We don’t have the bag with her DNA in it, we don’t have video of him stuffing her in the bag and carrying her into the apartment with it.... but we have enough other evidence, coupled with reason, to infer that he used it to carry out a kidnapping.

Ditto for use of the bat:
1) a bat can be used as a deadly weapon
2) BC describes using the bat to kill her
3)They recovered a bat from his apartment
4)Luminol staining showed the bat had been cleaned
5) Luminol- positive patch on the bat contained her DNA
6) describes using bat to kill her in bathroom, cadaver dog alerts to corpse in bathroom
7) BC is worried about the bat, tells Bullis they have it.

With this evidence, it is reasonable to infer he used the bat on her.

The bat is critical for another reason: it’s the one piece of physical evidence they have to support the conclusion that he killed her.

1) He describes choking her for ten minutes. We have no physical evidence he did this.

2)He describes stabbing her in the neck, and cutting her head off. He had knives, but none could be linked to the crime. So there is no physical evidence that he did this.

3) He describes hitting her in the head with a baseball bat, breaking her head open. Lo and behold..... we have a bat, it has her DNA on it, and he cleaned it.

The bat alone didn’t get him convicted, but it was a critical piece, and it WILL be a critical piece to getting him executed, as it strongly supports the aggravator of severe physical abuse.

Yes, criminals lie. BC has lied during this 3nture event, and thus we will never know for certain exactly what happened in that apartment. But sometimes I think we over-emphasize his lying and let it lead us too far into doubt. Liars can lie about anything, but that doesn’t mean they lie about everything. I don’t think he’s lying about the bat, and should he be executed, that bat will have been a huge nail in his coffin.

It is a murder weapon...

 

[morty4185]

Sorry that this is an awful thought but is there a chance he found a recently dug grave at a grave yard and placed the body there?

Who would think to look at a graveyard for a missing person? No one would think twice about the disturbed ground if a legitimate burial occurred earlier in the day

 

[kittythehare]

Sorry that this is an awful thought but is there a chance he found a recently dug grave at a grave yard and placed the body there?

Who would think to look at a graveyard for a missing person? No one would think twice about the disturbed ground if a legitimate burial occurred earlier in the day

There is every chance he did something like that.
We talked about it before as a possibility.
possibly also an old graveyard... open crypt.. a place that receives few visitors...
a graveyard is a place where a cadaver dog would be thoroughly confused and useless...
I don;t know if there are any within walking distance from his apartment..

 

[Webthrush]

I rarely get responses anymore when I ask to specifically hear from lawyers, but I’ll try one more time:
1) If BC gets DP and the case goes to appeals is it pretty automatic the same lawyers will handle the appeals, or is quite possible a different Defense team may take over?
2) And I’ve never understood the business of BC pleading “not guilty” and then his lawyers opening day 1 by saying he did it — is there any precedent for that… seems like misrepresentation and an automatic grounds for mistrial (if he doesn't confess by trial's end)?

 

[Raptors001]

Sorry that this is an awful thought but is there a chance he found a recently dug grave at a grave yard and placed the body there?

Who would think to look at a graveyard for a missing person? No one would think twice about the disturbed ground if a legitimate burial occurred earlier in the day

Yes. I thought of that and posted previously.

Graveyards normally predug the site. He might dug one up and then buried her there. Covered up what he dug and next day, a new casket goes on top.

 

[morty4185]

There is every chance he did something like that.
We talked about it before as a possibility.
possibly also an old graveyard... open crypt.. a place that receives few visitors...
a graveyard is a place where a cadaver dog would be thoroughly confused and useless...
I don;t know if there are any within walking distance from his apartment..

Thank you, sorry I didn't see the earlier post.

Another awful thought, is there a type of acid that could disintegrate bone and tissue? Sorry if this has been discussed previously as well

 

[Webthrush]

Sorry that this is an awful thought but is there a chance he found a recently dug grave at a grave yard and placed the body there?

Who would think to look at a graveyard for a missing person? No one would think twice about the disturbed ground if a legitimate burial occurred earlier in the day

yeah, that and I think all other possibilities have been brought up here before... we just don't know which one he chose (and by the way there are a lot more abandoned buildings/houses around Champaign than just the J-Ross bldg., though I don't believe he took her to a bldg.). I think it's even just possible that the police more-or-less know what happened to the body (in a general way), but it is so grotesque they fear disclosing it would do even more harm to the Zhang family than not knowing at all.

 

[kittythehare]

Thank you, sorry I didn't see the earlier post.

Another awful thought, is there a type of acid that could disintegrate bone and tissue?

There are many but not fast acting enough to have done it in his apartment.
He had pre-planned this... I'm not sure he could pre-plan a funeral for someone else occurring in a specific graveyard on the day of the killing though.. that's why I'm leaning more towards an ancient place, possibly of some historical significance ,but not enough to require regular maintenance or bring regular visitors.
He pre-planned this attack meticulously.
He pre-planned this disposal meticulously.
It's possible the disposal site was something he came across and thought nobody would ever find a body here, like a disused well, a large manhole, a hidden area within an old building..
He purchased food storage containers but these were not presented in evidence, just the receipts, I was unable to figure out their size or any description of them from the receipts..

 

[Raptors001]

Thank you, sorry I didn't see the earlier post.

Another awful thought, is there a type of acid that could disintegrate bone and tissue? Sorry if this has been discussed previously as well

That I didn't know

 

[Raptors001]

You got this part 100% right. Dumbass kept the baseball bat. He could have easily disposed of it.....

He 'cleaned' it. Ready for the next victim

He needed that weapon. He wants to kill again ... why did he keep it ? The poor bc don't have money to buy new one.

 

[dm92]

He 'cleaned' it. Ready for the next victim

He needed that weapon. He wants to kill again ... why did he keep it ? The poor bc don't have money to buy new one.

They weren't wealthy, but they were not completely destitute. They had around $8,000 in accounts, Michelle was working. He was looking for a job -and probably would have got one eventually. You can get bats for $20-30. He would have had no trouble getting another one. He bought a $70 duffel bag, after all....

 

[Raptors001]

They weren't wealthy, but they were not completely destitute. They had around $8,000 in accounts, Michelle was working. He was looking for a job -and probably would have got one eventually. You can get bats for $20-30. He would have had no trouble getting another one. He bought a $70 duffel bag, after all....

Then why keep it ?

 

[Laughing]

Then why keep it ?

Trophy of his "brilliance" in overpowering an especially tiny victim.

Not out-thinking, not out-maneuvering, just using size & strength brutally.

Where is our old Barfing emoji???

JMHO YMMV