Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #153 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

[Yemelyan]

Regarding DNA, what I'm learning today -

Familial DNA: LE looks at a database of past offenders to see if there is a family match, with the theory that offenders tend to run in families. If they get a close match to a known offender, they then look at that person's family.

Genetic DNA: LE looks at private databases containing DNA info that individuals voluntarily upload after taking a DNA test like for ancestry or other personal reason.

It looks like Indiana doesn't allow familial DNA in investigations? "But Indiana is one of dozens of states whose state police labs don’t conduct familial DNA searching."

The article I'm reading is dated Feb 2021. Here it is: Delphi deaths, 4 years later

This is an important point you're making. What a lot of people (including some MSM articles) are calling "familial" DNA searches, are actually properly termed "genetic genealogy." This is what we are talking about when Parabon or another analyst looks at a DNA sample from a crime scene and uses GEDMatch - or, more likely, proprietary DNA databases - to do family tree research that results in a lead that investigators can follow. Genetic genealogy IS allowed in Indiana (it's also how April Tinsley's murder was solved).

Familial DNA searches are a different thing. This is, as @Inthedetails noted, when LE uses databases like CODIS (or state DNA databases) that contain the DNA of past offenders to search, not for exact matches, but for similar DNA profiles that, by virtue of their similarity, may be presumed to be close relatives. Not every state allows this type of DNA database search (Massachusetts passed a law allowing it just last year.) I think there are about 13-15 states that allow familial DNA searches and Indiana is not currently one of them, as was linked upthread.

 

[Elley Mae]

When did he come forward as a witness?

My first thought, when he saw his image on the bridge.

Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

The only benefit to opting in to allowing law enforcement to use your DNA, is that it may help them catch killers.

I think people saw some of these high profile cases being solved (Golden State started the avalanche), and said "this is my way of helping."

Interesting details here. Again, this might come back to KK, and it appears the search of RA's home brought this all to an end.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0VVPdA8ZWqbjvtoKNnQkoc7iosidVhLNztn5nNNBXzHZe2Voyxw5md8zE4jcogTAsl&id=100044311365463

Update: FOX59 filed a records request to get the probable cause unsealed to learn what led police to arrest Richard Allen. In my 29 years of journalism I can’t remember a case where the PC was sealed. We have access to PCs daily.  we will let you know how Judge Diener rules. 

Me: This may be rare for Indiana, but I've seen it several times in Colorado, to include the last three cases I followed.

 

[Jillyg]

My guess: the 2nd sketch that wasn't released until 2019.

Well ain't that a plot twist!

 

[MassGuy]

This is an important point you're making. What a lot of people (including some MSM articles) are calling "familial" DNA searches, are actually properly termed "genetic genealogy." This is what we are talking about when Parabon or another analyst looks at a DNA sample from a crime scene and uses GEDMatch - or, more likely, proprietary DNA databases - to do family tree research that results in a lead that investigators can follow. Genetic genealogy IS allowed in Indiana (it's also how April Tinsley's murder was solved).

Familial DNA searches are a different thing. This is, as @Inthedetails noted, when LE uses databases like CODIS (or state DNA databases) that contain the DNA of past offenders to search, not for exact matches, but for similar DNA profiles that, by virtue of their similarity, may be presumed to be close relatives. Not every state allows this type of DNA database search (Massachusetts passed a law allowing it just last year.) I think there are about 13-15 states that allow familial DNA searches and Indiana is not currently one of them, as was linked upthread.

Yup, familial searches simplify the process to an extent. Crime tends to run in families too, so there's a decent chance of a really close match.

 

[Grace11]

I’ve been searching for pics of the night of the search party. I have a gut feeling he was there or part of it.

yeah, I bet he was, too. sicko

 

[Spiritecho]

MOO
Respectfully,
This case is NOT closed, there have been several posts saying 'this case is closed now'. It's not.
There is the hope RA tells what happened and why. There is discovery if it goes to trial. There is more evidence and investigating to do, I hope. There are more people and/or witnesses to speak to, I hope. Since NONE of us knows the real facts, what they have, what they don't have, what has been done, what needs to be done....
It's not arrest someone and it's done.
It is not done until a Jury convicts his sorry azz or he pleads out. There are probably other reasons that I can't think of atm.

 

[Rosegold68]

i don't remember the timeline

girls were missing then found

then sketch and video was released

not sure how much time there was in-between those events

 

[SuziQ]

So here is a question as I’m from the UK and we have different legal laws from the sounds of it.


Do you have contempt of court in the U.S?

I was just discussing this with a friend and I’m positive discussion threads like this in the UK would be locked because you could jeopardize legal proceedings.

So many are already assuming he is guilty so how can he get a fair trial?

Like Just imagine a future jury member reading this stuff. I’m intrigued by the different rules for this stuff as it’s never hit me before what a tight balancing rope it must be.


IMO - MOO

We have freedom of press
Freedom of speech
And 99.9 percent of posters and readers will not be on a jury for cases we discuss here
Imo

 

[Yemelyan]

Yup, familial searches simplify the process to an extent. Crime tends to run in families too, so there's a decent chance of a really close match.

Yes. I should have put this in my original post, but:

Genetic genealogy - is allowed in Indiana. April Tinsley case is a perfect example of how they used it.

Familial DNA searches - not currently allowed in Indiana. How the Grim Sleeper was caught in California for a perfect example of how this type of search goes.

 

[cheetostock]

They didn't take an SUV. There are photos of the car that were showed during the HLN piece, and it looks like a small hatchback. Dodge Caliber or Mazda 3. The vehicle he was in while waiting for the warrant was a minivan. Honda Odyssey or Toyota Sienna.

The minivan was a Pacifica, the car looks like a Ford Focus to me but the photos are terrible.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I hope they have him on a strict suicide watch, like every few minutes. It would be terrible after finally apprehending him for him to escape without providing any answers.

I was thinking this same thing last night. I hope he's being monitored closely too.

 

[Kano]

Update: FOX59 filed a records request to get the probable cause unsealed to learn what led police to arrest Richard Allen. In my 29 years of journalism I can’t remember a case where the PC was sealed. We have access to PCs daily.  we will let you know how Judge Diener rules. 

Me: This may be rare for Indiana, but I've seen it several times in Colorado, to include the last three cases I followed.

i do believe that normally by now things are unsealed. He is charged, his lawyers will need access to that information and so on.

 

[Cryptic]

Do you have contempt of court in the U.S?

I was just discussing this with a friend and I’m positive discussion threads like this in the UK would be locked because you could jeopardize legal proceedings.

We do have contempt of Court in the United States. Judges can summarily sentence people for jail time (usually 30 days max?) if they are found to be in contempt.

Usually an individual needs to be actively disrupting judicial proceedings: back talking the judge, lying, not following instructions, failing to appear after being given a subpeona etc.

Simply advancing theories about a case, voicing opinions about a case etc. would not be contempt of Court unless the judge has ordered a "gag order".

But....I believe that "gag orders" in the US are rare, perhaps even extremely rare. This could be due to the fact that
the historic judicial thought in the US is very Freedom of Speech "centric".

Freedom of Speech is retained- even if makes conducting fair trials harder, but not impossible. Then, there is the longstanding idea that: "Defendants can't expect to be protected from their own notoriety."

In short, locking this thread by a Court is possible in theory, but is, in all probability not going to happen in practice due to the deference given to free speech.

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

After further review, sleuthing of RMA’s alias will be allowed. The information can be found here, at Law & Crime, which is an approved source.

Be mindful of the rules of this site, as always. If you’re unsure of a source or validity of information you’ve discovered, ask one of the staff. We’re happy to help!

Thanks,
Mad

^^^^ I finally found the announcement Mad made when that announcement was made, so that's not a new decision but an old one. As of now, I haven't seen any MSM that initially reported the alias retract it, so the decision still stands. ^^^^

 

[Krazykatlady]

I’ve been looking at pictures of RA cribbed from a now deleted social media account and there is no doubt in my mind that RA is BG.

I don’t think RA’s mugshot and more recent photos with his big bald head and long gray goatee look like BG, but in older pictures with a a closely cropped goatee and a Route 66 ball cap on his head … Wow.

Another thing that sticks out is the way he wears his pants - in one particular photo, RA has track pants that are too long and kind of scrunched up in the legs. If you look at the still photo of BG taken from the video, you can see that his jeans are kind of too long and bunched up in the leg area in the same way. If he is indeed short, he probably has trouble finding pants that fit off the rack and they are all a little long.

 

[MassGuy]

i do believe that normally by now things are unsealed. He is charged, his lawyers will need access to that information and so on.

This wouldn't prohibit his lawyers' access to those documents; just the public.

In most cases yes, the AA would have been released by now. This isn't like most cases though.

 

[Derph]

I think he stayed in plain site and in the same town because he enjoyed it. Listening to all the rumours and even interacting with the family members of his victims. Possibly being part of the investigation in a certain way. He may have enjoyed talking to the locals about the crime he comitted getting satisfaction from them not knowing they were talking directly to the one that did it. Being in same room as his suspects drawing knowing it was himself

This reminds me of an incident that happened when I was a teenager. I worked concessions at a National Park and got to know a lot of the Park Rangers. During a my two years working there for a Summer job there were a number of arson incidents going on during that time inside the park. During a Winter break I had a friend visiting me from school and I took him on a tour of the park. We ran into one of the Rangers during our drive that I knew and stopped to have a chat. During that chat I told him that I heard some jerk ( I used a different word) was running around the park and setting fires. He nodded his head and made some throw aside comment. I didn't think anything of it and we went on our way.

The next Summer I heard he had shot himself at the park not too long after our encounter and it turned out that HE was the arsonist!!! He was disgruntled with the Park Service and had set the fires. He laid it all out in his suicide note. Dude seemed like a nice guy and I had almost weekly contact with him during the Summer. Thinking back we were in an isolated part of the park when we stopped and spoke. He could have easily taken us if he wanted too after I made the comment.

You just NEVER know who is who and what they are capable of. I learned a big lesson from that! It's best to keep your opinions to yourself sometimes.

 

[asyousay]

I just want to thank everybody who has replied and explained legal matters for me

 

[BUF]

This wouldn't prohibit his lawyers' access to those documents; just the public.

In most cases yes, the AA would have been released by now. This isn't like most cases though.

Any news yet on who his lawyer is?