Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[CSIDreamer]

Isn't there a court date in Jan too?

Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

I managed to get it all on one screenshot. The top one that is cut off is the hearing regarding the sealed PCA (11/22).

 

[The Observer]

I'm not sure about indiana but I know other states and federal offices have holding cells within their offices. The Marshals office i worked at the one where we did a transfer to both had holding cells where defendants were processed pending arraignment or pretrial hearing etc.
They were solitary cells and no one shared a cell. Protecting them was a top priority I imagine indiana state police have something similar. Somewhere. Jmo and speculation. I cant imagine he's even close to an actual prison population but again, I don't know how Indy does that.

Which makes it odd they'd move him again stating it's for his protection. Unless perhaps something has happened we are not privy to yet.

 

[Jillyg]

How long did we have to wait to see Barry Morphew’s AA? Months.. I don’t get why everyone is so shocked, it’s not uncommon to not release the affidavits right away. Potentially giving time to the state to protect possible witnesses is my guess at why they want this sealed for awhile longer.

One difference is is that it was requested by the defense in that case. That does matter to an extent. Link below.
It's also Colorado. Different rules governing.
There is a hearing set about releasing the pc on the 22nd. As far as I know, that was all the media was asking for. To be heard on the matter.

Also, info can be redacted to protect victims. The PC release doesn't have to give any gory details of anything.

https://www.fox21news.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/37/2021/06/21CR78-Order-Limit-Public-Redacted.pdf

 

[WingsOverTX]

I share your concerns! This is why I keep asking questions regarding RA's legal counsel. At the moment, I don't care if the probable cause is sealed from the public. However, it would seem VERY troublesome if RA's attorney can't even view the PCA... that doesn't seem to be our legal process (but, IANAL) so maybe there's something I'm missing.

A relative of mine was recently arrested on a very serious charge & was unable to get a full copy of the arrest warrant for weeks after bonding out, effectively barring him from knowledge of any of the evidence of probable cause. And that was with an attorney requesting it! So yes, it can happen.

 

[WingsOverTX]

One difference is is that it was requested by the defense in that case. That does matter to an extent. Link below.
It's also Colorado. Different rules governing.
There is a hearing set about releasing the pc on the 22nd. As far as I know, that was all the media was asking for. To be heard on the matter.

Also, info can be redacted to protect victims. The PC release doesn't have to give any gory details of anything.

https://www.fox21news.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/37/2021/06/21CR78-Order-Limit-Public-Redacted.pdf

RBBM
Different jurisdiction. As to rules, each state has a responsibility to protect the basic rights of all citizens as granted in the Constitution, amendments & federal law. The fact that they don't is an ongoing travesty of justice for all, including public interest rights.
MOO

 

[fred&edna]

A relative of mine was recently arrested on a very serious charge & was unable to get a full copy of the arrest warrant for weeks after bonding out, effectively barring him from knowledge of any of the evidence of probable cause. And that was with an attorney requesting it! So yes, it can happen.

Wowza!

 

[scapa]

An idiot like Patrick Frazee of Colorado.

Well, exactly.

Is there any information about whether RA has retained / been appointed counsel?

 

[vls12345]

But ask yourself WHY didn’t LE release an official booking photo with the height scale? I’ve never seen a mugshot without the height scale. Another puzzler from cryptic LE.

I see plenty of mugshots without a height scale. Just take a look on lots of threads on WS.

MOO.

Edited to add, for example, here's an article from a mainstream media source about arrests in Indiana from a few years ago.

Mugshots: More than 60 arrests warrants issued in Johnson Co. drug sweep

Investigators said the suspects made drug deals with undercover officers.

www.wishtv.com

 

[scapa]

I think that depending on where we live we tend to view our laws as "more right".

Just like the uproar over the sealed PCA. I guarantee you, the day we see it we will be poring over every detail. I include myself in that we. It certainly won't be to make sure RA gets a fair trial. It will be to discuss the juicy details. We all know it. Calling tyranny because we want chit chat material sounds a bit like virtue signaling.

JMO

With respect -- and I agree with your main point -- @WingsOverTX has been a longtime advocate for judicial transparency on these boards.

I also wonder if the media tour seemingly undertaken by some investigators on this case is fully in keeping with the spirit of sealing the docs and the "today is not that day" mantra of deferring the divulging of details.

 

[FNG]

'Pedophile' accused of protecting Delphi killer cooperating with cops

Kegan Kline, 28, was linked to the case last December - he had communicated with Libby German via a fake Instagram account the morning she and Abby went missing.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"

‘Pedophile’ catfish, 28, who was linked to Delphi case and accused of ‘protecting’ killer, has been cooperating with authorities - who asked for charges against him be dismissed days after suspect Richard Allen's arrest"​

 

[Sarg]

About the police still asking for tips...I think now that we know who the perpetrator is they think others may remember an incident involving him that they might not have thought too much about. I believe they are trying to get as much on Allen as possible.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I think that depending on where we live we tend to view our laws as "more right".

Just like the uproar over the sealed PCA. I guarantee you, the day we see it we will be poring over every detail. I include myself in that we. It certainly won't be to make sure RA gets a fair trial. It will be to discuss the juicy details. We all know it. Calling tyranny because we want chit chat material sounds a bit like virtue signaling.

JMO

It's not virtue signaling to want to live in a society that upholds the principles of its founding. It's always a work in progress. But yes, it is rightly called tyranny. Read the history of the founding of the U.S. if you doubt that was the understanding of what was at stake. And what still is.

 

[Nikynoo]

Isn't there a court date in Jan too?

yes, there is. I think its a pre-trial hearing.

 

[MissMalowe]

Well said.
On this subject I have been personally bothered by the rights of a murdered victim/ victims.
I personally would not be a participant in the Websleuths community if my friend had not been murdered.
During the murder trial, her family chose to leave the courtroom before a graphic photo of the murder scene was shown.
As her friend, I chose to stay and view the photo in respect and advocacy of my friend as did several other female friends and advocates.
Here is the problem-
my friend’s nude raped dead body was prominently displayed on the BIG SCREEN in the court for everyone in attendance to see.
I know that there were a handful of strangers in the courtroom and I was personally extremely bothered that several male distant acquaintances were able to view the photo.
Here is the dilemma - if you are unfortunate enough to be raped and murdered apparently the whole world (or anyone who is in the courtroom during the trial) gets to see your nude dead body and all your PRIVATE parts become public.
WHY COULD THIS PHOTO NOT HAVE BEEN PASSED PRIVATELY AROUND THE JURY and to the defendant and his attorney ONLY?
In my humble opinion, there was absolutely and unequivocally no reason NO REASON that everyone in the courtroom had access to a nude photo of my friend.
Apparently there is no way to advocate for full privacy and decency for a victim? Or is there?
I remember thinking “wow, if you are unlucky enough to be a victim then you lose ALL PRIVACY -strangers get to see your nude body”

While I am personally vested in Abby and Libby’s case, and curious about what sealed documents contain, if there is anything therein that infringes on the privacy of these innocent young ladies PLEASE KEEP THEM SEALED.

PLEASE PASS PHOTOS IN PRIVATE IF LAWFUL ONLY TO JURY MEMBERS AND DEFENSE AND HIS ATTORNEYS.

No strangers should be allowed to view crime scene photos.

WE ALL NEED TO ADVOCATE FOR THE VICTIMS AND THEIR PRIVACY AND DIGNITY.

Just because you were unfortunate enough to be a victim, this doesn’t give others the right to see any photos of you unless it is critical to the case- as in the judge, jury, defendant and counsel.

I hope for Abby and Libby’s sake (their privacy and dignity after death) that this doesn’t go to trial but with the defendant pleading NOT GUILTY it is certainly headed toward a VERITABLE THREE RING CIRCUS INDEED.

I'm very sorry about your friend. That's awful! Although I'm 100% positive that it was extremely difficult for you to choose to stay in the courtroom to view the photos out of respect and advocacy of your friend, I understand why & commend you for doing so, as that was likely very traumatizing for you.
This is another example of how things get confusing/complex in terms of what should be shared and with whom:

Just because you were unfortunate enough to be a victim, this doesn’t give others the right to see any photos of you unless it is critical to the case- as in the judge, jury, defendant and counsel.

But yet, not being the judge, a member of the jury, a defendant or counsel, you stayed and viewed the photos....

I don't point this out to judge you (because I don't, it's the opposite actually- I think it was an example of you being a good, loyal friend because I think I understand your thought process/the why of you making that choice and good loyal friends are not a dime a dozen) but it did also go against your statement that only those directly relating to the case should be viewing them, out of respect for victims privacy)

And then it opens a whole can of worms we can't possibly ever have the personal answer to for each and every deceased victim. If we were to say family only, how are we to know that the ONE person the victim would never want seeing those photos is their own mother or any family? Friends? Which ones? Those who knew the victim the longest? Those who spent the most time with them? Only their very best friend? Friends of the family? Only reporters/news people? Where do we draw the line? Where would each deceased victim want their line?

I'm not even interested in photos, mostly just the probable cause affidavit for R.A. was what I was referring to in my previous post. But I felt your post made some very interesting points about photos/privacy etc that were more than worth considering and discussing. Be well and again, my sincere condolences to you about your friend

 

[Niner]

Isn't there a court date in Jan too?

1)I have the screen shot from Indiana mycase.
Maybe it was updated with other info afterwards?

2)I was putting myself in her shoes and thinking about how she would feel knowing that this pic was posted after the murders. Its haunting

3)perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'initiate' as maybe he didn't start the conversations. I was wrong to use that word.

In this link "“He would come in and we would always talk about the girls and everything,” Matlock, 75, told The Daily Beast on Monday. “We would carry on conversations about it, he would say, you know, it’s such a tragedy, and we’d say we felt sorry for the families and all that, but we tried not to talk about it too much because we all knew the families, and were friends with the families.”

Stunned Bar Owner Says Delphi Suspect Sat Inches Away From ‘Wanted’ Sketch

“He would come in and we would always talk about the girls and everything,” Bob Matlock told The Daily Beast on Monday.

www.thedailybeast.com

ETA I erased his address from the screen shot so I don't get into trouble.
JMO

Is this a different case for RMA from 2011 - what is it for? If it says? TIA!

 

[Nikynoo]

Somethings I have been wondering about.

1. If L and A's deaths are the result of some kind of [insert word] 'ring', is there a chance that other local people are also involved in this 'ring' and;
2. Does the fact that the probable cause document is sealed prevent RA from sharing his copy of that document with various potential defence counsel?

I think number 2 is my main concern. RA is entitled to legal counsel and if it can be shown in any way that access has been prevented, that opens avenues to all sorts of mischief down the road. How secure is the paperwork handed to RA?

Following on from my earlier post (above) - does anyone one know what happens if RA does not appoint counsel within the 20 days mentioned in the Judge's order:
'Defendant indicated at the initial hearing an intention to hire private counsel.Defendant is reminded that he must retain counsel within 20 days of the initial hearing because there are deadlines for filing motions and raising defenses and, if those deadlines are missed, the legal issues and defenses that could have been raised will be waived or given up. If Defendant is unableto retain counsel of his choosing due to financial indigency, Defendant is reminded that he is entitled to court-appointed counsel and Defendant will be examined upon request.'

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23262780/order-issued-1.pdf

My first question would be, is that 20 calendar (?) days froml ast Friday, 28th October? Second question, does the court follow up, if it notices that no defence attorney has been appointed? Third question - is no defence attorney is appointed by RA are the rights that are being waived essentially the same as if he pled guilty? Anyone know? I am really concerned that this defendant is not being given adequate legal counsel There has already been a hearing - which no-one knew about, and he entered a plea. How come no legal counsel and why is this allowed?

Thank you!

 

[AC4RD]

Re sealing, ...

But the stated reason (per the statute) given by LE was that the investigation is ongoing. And how much longer can it possibly go on? Not too much longer, not against RMA at least - he’s already under arrest & that means they’re formally ready to proceed against him.

RA has been arrested and charged--the police and DA certainly have reason to do that, whether we know what it is or not. We're all wondering what happened but we are not going to know the whole story until later--and finding the malefactors and punishing them is more important than public curiosity IMO.

But "how much longer can (the investigation) possibly go on?" IMO: as long as the police and prosecutors think it needs to. Until they are convinced that they know every relevant fact, perhaps.

It seems pretty likely to me, at this point, that there ARE some other people who may be involved; who did what, when, why, and to whom--all or some of that may still be entirely unknown. IMO we need to let the investigators do their work; they'll lay out the case(s) against the perp(s) in the fullness of time.

Just my own guess, but I think the delay in laying out information against one suspect means that LE/DAs are staring at a much bigger case than I ever thought. When you said "... he’s already under arrest & that means they’re formally ready to proceed against him," you're clearly correct IMO, but that doesn't mean that ALL the people involved have been arrested, doesn't mean ALL the relevant evidence has been gathered and analyzed, doesn't even mean RA has been charged with all the crimes he may ultimately be charged with.

I'm as curious as everybody else about what, who, when, where, why, but we aren't going to hear most of it just now. Which brings back up the question about why the police arrested RA now instead of while the investigations are ongoing.

We WILL find out most of what we want to know, sooner or later. Until then, we can be glad that "Today could be the day" turned into "The day that the arrests started."

 

[Charlot123]

.

Has anyone listened to comparisons of “down the hill” with the minuscule snip of known-RMA audio?

Now THAT is dead-on … unlike with the sketches, which now seem like a bad joke, and the BG pics, which def look like RMA but are still hard to make out, I’m really surprised he wasn’t recognized by the audio IMO.

i don’t want to link to any comparisons cuz I can’t seem to get the rules for that right, but they’re easy to search up-

Three words compared at a couple of others. Different environments, not one recording studio. Different “equipment”. There is some similarity. The police wrote in RL’s affidavit that BG’s voice resembled that of BG; I can’t deny it, either. TL said he “has heard this voice before”, and meant, probably, someone else, since he considered RA so helpful. (No irony, it is just a low-ish generic voice). This clip could work well enough to rule out the suspects, but is not enough to rule anyone firmly in.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Is this a different case for RMA from 2011 - what is it for? If it says? TIA!

It's a different case.
A speeding ticket in Jasper County in 2011.

 

[uwmadison]

yes, there is. I think its a pre-trial hearing.

Yes. The pre-trial hearing is scheduled for 1/13/23 at 9 a.m.. Here it is also stated the $20 million bond but this week the judge and prosecutor said there is no bond. Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase