Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[Sundog]

I'm glad the case was moved. Allen County will be able to handle this. It's where Ft. Wayne is located, which is one of Indiana's largest cities. I'm a little surprised the Supreme Court didn't just move it to Marion County (Indianapolis), as we have a new state-of-the art Justice Center that is supposed to be amazing (I haven't been there yet). I suspect it was a reflection of caseloads and which experienced Judge could take on such a high-profile case.

Do we know if the case was moved, or if the special judge will preside over the case in Carroll County, at least until a defense attorney requests a change in venue. I hadn't read that the case had been moved. I assume that Judge Gulls is able to preside over the case in another Indiana county.

Edited to correct name of county

 

[chocolatechance]

Do we know if the case was moved, or if the special judge will preside over the case in Allen County, at least until a defense attorney requests a change in venue. I hadn't read that the case had been moved. I assume that Judge Gulls is able to preside over the case in another Indiana county.

Venue has not been changed yet, but I'm fairly certain that she can hold conferences at her courtroom in Ft. Wayne. She can certainly use the video equipment for conferences and hearings.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I’m calming down from my euphoria of an arrest and am now trying to put the puzzle pieces together and yet they do not fit with what has been officially released by LE.

We need the probable cause, search warrant, and arrest affidavit released.

Or it’s another Richard Jewell case.

At this time, we don't need anything. A judge and a prosecutor have seen the probable cause and have validated that it meets the legal standards for arresting/filing charges. They have crossed their T's and dotted their I's, and did not prematurely put his name out to the public. The media was not driving any narrative in the arrest of RA.
This is a complete contrast to Richard Jewell, where only a search warrant was done on an apartment. He was not falsely accused or arrested, except for by the media and court of public opinion. MOO

 

[TL4S]

The more interviews I read, both old and new, the more I recall JH's comment about none of the reenactments being accurate. When this case unfolds before us, and the details come out, I suspect we're all going to be shocked at what really happened and how very different it was from what any of us have theorized.

 

[MaisieBella]

I just came across this -

'Pedophile' accused of protecting Delphi killer cooperating with cops

Kegan Kline, 28, was linked to the case last December - he had communicated with Libby German via a fake Instagram account the morning she and Abby went missing.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SkyBoomer]

Uh huh. Also he's been all over the national media. Prisoners are going to know who he is regardless of where he's moved too.

Edited to add: Unless they're moving him to more equipped state facilities for protective custody or confinement.

My biggest fear is that he will pull an Ariel Castro and cheat the families out of justice for their loss. I hope they keep him safe and sound and on 24-hour watch.

 

[Sundog]

Agree that sealing an AA isn't uncommon -- whether it should be more uncommon is an argument for better lawyers and ethicists than me -- but IIRC in the Morphew case one rationale for sealing involved the impact it might have on SM's family members and specifically on her young daughters. Also IIRC, there was a lively discussion on whether this sort of harm should be a consideration under the laws as written.

NOTE: I'm not advocating for unsealing at any cost, and I grew up and live in countries with robust sub judice laws, but I wonder what our WS lawyers make of the citing of "survivor impact" considerations in conjunction with possible damage to investigation or unrelated parties, etc.

NOTE 2: I absolutely get the horror and pain that the release of case details can cause, having experienced it via family cases. Just not clear about whether those harms can be factored un legally.

JMO, not based on any legal knowledge, but I think that the opinions of the victims' families and the community (by way of their petitions) will be allowed to be submitted at the public hearing - along with media opinion and the opinions of the defense and prosecution.

However, their opinions may ultimately be given different weight or consideration as the judge makes her adjudication/decision based on law and the Constitution. I think she will allow for the unsealing of the affidavit, but allow for heavy redacting. JMO.

 

[katydid23]

Looks like the special judge that the Indiana Supreme Court appointed as a special judge in this case (Judge Frances Gull) was a nominee to the Indiana Supreme Court in the past, so I am guessing that she will be a good judicial appointment to be able to deal with the issue and hearing of the sealed affidavit, and will adjudicate with the goal of her decision being able to stand on appeal. JMO.

True, in terms of her experience. But I did read info about some of the public being angry because she was so lenient against some sex offender in a child abuse case.

Fort Wayne man gets suspended sentence for molesting 2 teens

A Fort Wayne man who once faced 13 charges related to child molesting has avoided time in prison after pleading guilty to two counts of sexual misconduct with a minor.

www.wndu.com

 

[Sundog]

One difference is is that it was requested by the defense in that case. That does matter to an extent. Link below.
It's also Colorado. Different rules governing.
There is a hearing set about releasing the pc on the 22nd. As far as I know, that was all the media was asking for. To be heard on the matter.

Also, info can be redacted to protect victims. The PC release doesn't have to give any gory details of anything.

https://www.fox21news.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/37/2021/06/21CR78-Order-Limit-Public-Redacted.pdf

I wonder if the fact that RA does not yet have an attorney representing him, that this could be a factor in why the affidavit was initially sealed. Not the only factor, but one factor that the presiding judge considered, along with the wishes of the prosecution.

 

[chocolatechance]

I just came across this -

'Pedophile' accused of protecting Delphi killer cooperating with cops

Kegan Kline, 28, was linked to the case last December - he had communicated with Libby German via a fake Instagram account the morning she and Abby went missing.

www.dailymail.co.uk

At least they only requested dismissal of 5 of the charges according to the article--the rest remain. Maybe that was part of the cooperation deal offered for information about the Delphi murders.

 

[MaisieBella]

At least they only requested dismissal of 5 of the charges according to the article--the rest remain. Maybe that was part of the cooperation deal offered for information about the Delphi murders.

Yes, I think it must be!

 

[CSIDreamer]

MOD NOTE:

There has been a major cleanup on this thread tonight due to numerous TOS violations. Here are the RULES we all agreed to upon joining this site.

We have a thread dedicated to KAK HERE. If you have an update specific to any of his current charges, pending charges or news, it is to be posted on that thread. For example, dismissals, court appearances, etc.

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Decisions made by officials may not sit well with us, but they’re most often made for a reason.

And lastly, STAY ON TOPIC. Please and THANK YOU!

- Mad

Bringing this forward. Important info to expand and read.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Venue has not been changed yet, but I'm fairly certain that she can hold conferences at her courtroom in Ft. Wayne. She can certainly use the video equipment for conferences and hearings.

How is this going to work with a hearing if it's in Carroll County? Everyone but the judge meets in the courtroom and she presides via zoom? Not directed just at you. I'd like to know how these procedures work with some actual links to the rules of Indiana courts.

 

[Gardenista]

How is this going to work with a hearing if it's in Carroll County? Everyone but the judge meets in the courtroom and she presides via zoom? Not directed just at you. I'd like to know how these procedures work with some actual links to the rules of Indiana courts.

Not sure if this is what you are looking for. It even has a quote from the special judge on this case

According to Judge Persin, “Once the hearings start everyone seems to forget news media is present. The reporters continually seek guidance and understand the need to remain inconspicuous during the court proceedings.” Judge Gull agreed and added, “The media has been patient with delays in the hearings, and for the most part has been unobtrusive and accommodating of the Sheriff’s security concerns regarding camera placement. They have been professional in their coverage and presence.”

Broadcast pilot project allows cameras in court

times.courts.in.gov

 

[CSIDreamer]

Not sure if this is what you are looking for. It even has a quote from the special judge on this case

According to Judge Persin, “Once the hearings start everyone seems to forget news media is present. The reporters continually seek guidance and understand the need to remain inconspicuous during the court proceedings.” Judge Gull agreed and added, “The media has been patient with delays in the hearings, and for the most part has been unobtrusive and accommodating of the Sheriff’s security concerns regarding camera placement. They have been professional in their coverage and presence.”

Broadcast pilot project allows cameras in court

times.courts.in.gov

That's very interesting!

What I'm after is confirmation a judge can remotely preside over a hearing. Which brings to mind an image of a packed courtroom in Carroll County with a computer screen in place of a physical judge. Because a few posters have suggested she can preside over a Carroll County hearing while sitting in Allen County. This seems odd to me and I'm asking for a linked confirmation she can do this. I've not heard of it.

 

[margarita25]

Just a thought here, the PC most certainly does leave it open for possibility of others directly involved, obviously, and yes LE could also want more info about RA, but here’s a thought:

Right now LE is probably getting lots of tips about criminals, period. People may call in and say “check out so and so”, which might be leading to other unrelated arrests, say drugs, CSAM, and others...why suddenly shut that down because they suddenly have their guy? They’ve got a new world of confidential informants now calling in tips from all over the world, why not take advantage of that for as long as possible? Who knows how many other cases have been solved as a result of tips called in because of attention to Abby’s & Libby’s case.

Just a thought.

 

[MistyWaters]

This comment from DC is unsettling to me. It's easy to think the felony murder statute fits due to the kidnapping aspect of this case, since L's video would be evidence of such, but what aspects of kidnapping would be added to a probable cause affidavit here when it wasn't in the RL affidavit? In that probable cause, they were looking for clothing, animal hair, weapons, digital devices, photographs, missing items of the girls', etc. Since we know what kind of things they were looking for then, and now what the charges are, combining this information is what is unsettling to me.


Indiana police superintendent: Delphi murders' facts will come out at trial
I-Team: Allen was charged. The statute that he is charged under, the murder charge, also indicated that he has to have committed another crime, like rape, child molestation or human trafficking. Is charged properly?

Carter: He is, and those questions will be answered in due time, and they certainly should come from the prosecutor and not from me, but eventually when that PC (probable cause affidavit) is released that will be clear.

It was only a Search Warrant that was released regarding Ron Logan, listing what officers are allowed to search for and seize if it’s found (that RL was never charged suggests the search was unsuccessful). That’s quite different from a Probable Cause affidavit filed with regard to RA’s charges, outlining the actual evidence in support of the two charges, which the Q to DC refers to.

 

[TL4S]

It was only a Search Warrant that was released regarding Ron Logan, listing what officers are allowed to search for and seize if it’s found (that RL was never charged suggests the search was unsuccessful). That’s quite different from a Probable Cause affidavit filed with regard to RA’s charges, outlining the actual evidence in support of the two charges, which the Q to DC refers to.

Thank you for pointing that out. I mistakenly thought the probable cause being discussed was to search RA's home. Yours makes more sense.

 

[FrostedGlass]

A good number of the Indiana courts have Zoom conferences. The inmate is in jail, in a room with a computer setup, the attorney is either in court or at home or somewhere in between, the judge is in his court. If the accused is not in jail, they just check in from wherever they are. The public can click on the live stream and it's as good as being there.

If Judge Gull live streamed the hearings I don't know that the media would have to be present. However, I can't remember ever seeing Allen Co courts streaming.

 

[chocolatechance]

That's very interesting!

What I'm after is confirmation a judge can remotely preside over a hearing. Which brings to mind an image of a packed courtroom in Carroll County with a computer screen in place of a physical judge. Because a few posters have suggested she can preside over a Carroll County hearing while sitting in Allen County. This seems odd to me and I'm asking for a linked confirmation she can do this. I've not heard of it.

Yes, a judge can preside over a hearing via video, and all parties can participate via video (this became common during the pandemic, and I've done this several times). This is particularly useful if it's going to be difficult to transport an inmate. Now, whether the public will be allowed to watch? That's up for debate, especially given the sealed records vs. the high public interest.

I think that logistically it may be hard for Carroll County to handle a hearing, particularly the one involving unsealing the records, where there will be large numbers of reporters, members of the public, ect. That courthouse simply won't have the staffing to provide security and likely won't have enough space. It certainly doesn't have enough staff based on what Judge Deiner reported (see the link earlier in the thread on his description of the court resources). I could see the Carroll County prosecutor and the defense attorney (once he/she has appeared) traveling to Ft. Wayne for a hearing like that. If the hearings remain "sealed" without reporters, then Carroll County could probably handle hearings.

The magnitude of this case due to international interest is not the norm here, and I think everyone's going to have to think about practicalities in deciding where the hearings take place. And that's assuming the venue isn't changed, but that'd be the first motion I'd file if I was RA's criminal defense attorney.