Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[Jillyg]

I'd be speculating too. They could've chosen Lake County (Indiana side of Chicago), Indianapolis and maybe Lafayette (although that might be a straight since most of that population likely comes from Purdue). I suspect the Supreme Court clerk ran the caseload numbers and picked one of the experienced judges who could handle this. Just my speculation.

I agree! I think you're spot on.

 

[chocolatechance]

But they chose a special judge. Not a location.

Yes, but that judge will use her offices, staff and facilities for many of the hearings and conferences, and she can schedule video conferences. Ft. Wayne will have that. I doubt that Carroll County had much of it.

 

[steeltowngirl]

He was planning on hiring independent counsel, right? Maybe he has met with an attorney by now. I don't know how he can afford one though.

I was doing some reading on this. We still don’t know if the state is seeking the death penalty. But, if they are, apparently it’s rare for a defendant to retain private counsel.

In this piece, Gull is referenced as having removed a private counsel on a death penalty case.

Defense attorneys say private counsel representing a death penalty defendant is rare in Indiana. Public defenders typically defend individuals charged with capital crimes because of the cost of the case coupled with the demands of preparing for trial.
(…)
Landis, executive director of the Indiana Public Defender Council, said he empathizes with the dilemma judges confront in these cases. The bench has to weigh the defendant’s right to choose counsel against the ability of the attorney to provide representation.

The Fort Wayne case, State of Indiana V. Marcus D. Dansby, 02D06-1609-MR-000010, could have provided some guidance for resolving that dilemma. Allen Superior Judge Frances Gull removed Nakos at the beginning of the year and appointed two public defenders, Michelle Kraus and Robert Gevers II.

Private attorneys in death penalty cases create dilemmas for judges, public defenders - The Indiana Lawyer

Capital cases are entering what one judge calls uncharted territory, faced with determining whether an accused killer is entitled to court-appointed counsel of his choice or must be represented by a lawyer certified to defend death penalty cases.

www.theindianalawyer.com

A list of Indiana death penalty-qualified public defenders can be found here:

Capital (Death Penalty) Attorney Roster

www.in.gov

 

[CSIDreamer]

Yes, but that judge will use her offices, staff and facilities for many of the hearings and conferences, and she can schedule video conferences. Ft. Wayne will have that. I doubt that Carroll County had much of it.

Yes but the venue has not been changed. That was the topic I was responding to.

 

[Tealgrove]

I see a lot of people saying that the families are trying to preserve the girls’ dignity memory etc. by campaigning to keep the PC sealed. Maybe so, but the real issue here I believe, is preserving the integrity of the case. The families don’t want this to get so screwed up this guy walks.

The PC will be unsealed eventually and a trial will lay all things bare for all of us to see. That is inevitable. We will see and hear it all and nobody will be able to stop it.

As for the girls’s dignity, I am a firm believer that all of us want to preserve that too. RA may think he stole their dignity but he did not.

Abby and Libby’s memory and dignity shall not be denigrated by this Predator. Nothing that can be revealed will change how we feel about OUR GIRLS. They remain good friends who stuck by each other and showed what friendship really means. Their dignity shall be preserved. Of this, I have no doubt.

MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

Did it say which facility or is that a secret too? I don't see him in IN DOC but it's possible it has not been updated yet.

Vinelink still shows unknown facility for me.

 

[Nikynoo]

Maybe someone can answer this also... could it be that a venue change will have to be in a district that mirrors carroll county district? With similar demographics etc? In other states, that is the procedure, I'm just not sure about indiana. So moving it to ft Wayne puts it closer to where a possible venue change could be (at least concerning jury pool).?

as far as I am aware, the case has not been moved, it is just a different judge has been assigned. as there is only one judge in Carroll County (?), there had to be a judge assigned from a different county to hear the case

 

[chocolatechance]

Yes but the venue has not been changed. That was the topic I was responding to.

Not yet, but I've gotta think that will be the first motion filed after a defense attorney appearance. Speaking of, where is RA's attorney? He needs to move on that. I wonder if he can't come up with the retainer? Or he's trying to find someone to defend him for free to cash in on the notoriety? He was charged a week ago. Time is ticking....

 

[Sarahlou]

Personally I don't see why the public should be told any more details until the trial. That goes for all cases IMO.

 

[Nikynoo]

Not yet, but I've gotta think that will be the first motion filed after a defense attorney appearance. Speaking of, where is RA's attorney? He needs to move on that. I wonder if he can't come up with the retainer? Or he's trying to find someone to defend him for free to cash in on the notoriety? He was charged a week ago. Time is ticking....

I have a feeling that at the next hearing (or before if the time limit mentioned in the previous judge's order expires before the next hearing), the new judge will appoint him a PD if he hasn't retained counsel. There is the possibility that he could move to represent himself, but cannot do that if the DP is sought.

 

[chocolatechance]

as far as I am aware, the case has not been moved, it is just a different judge has been assigned. as there is only one judge in Carroll County (?), there had to be a judge assigned from a different county to hear the case

Yup, but she'll use her office, staff and equipment for many of the proceedings. I doubt that Carroll County has a lot of equipment or space for a case of this magnitude.

And I foresee a change of venue motion soon. If RA ever hires counsel.

 

[The Observer]

A WRTV article from February 15th 2017 states '..that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.'

Does anyone recall whether LE had the foresight to take casts of these prints?

Article also states: ' Police are asking anyone who may have been on or near the Delphi historic trail on Monday to contact them. Specifically, anyone that was near the Monon High Bridge and may have seen someone else there. Police are also looking for any photos from that day.'

IMO he came forward as a 'witness' because he either knew someone had seen him that day (or he suspected someone had seen him) or because his family knew he was planning to go there that day. I do not believe he came forward to insert himself into the investigation.

2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

 

[chocolatechance]

I have a feeling that at the next hearing (or before if the time limit mentioned in the previous judge's order expires before the next hearing), the new judge will appoint him a PD if he hasn't retained counsel. There is the possibility that he could move to represent himself, but cannot do that if the DP is sought.

I bet you're correct. It seems crazy that he doesn't have an attorney appearance on file yet. And if he's going to claim he's innocent, he needs his attorney to start yelling that to every reporter possible, especially if there might be a gag order issued in the case. Public opinion is not on his side right now, but we're not hearing anything from anyone who is on his side.

 

[Mellowmelly]

I am trying hard to catch up from being two threads behind, and wanted to read everything so I don't repeat others' thoughts.

My mind is blown by so many things.... I will try to be brief.

These are my wth moments and thoughts and some involve 'power and control':

-I am in awe that the amazing people of Delphi who knew about the search of RA's home a week before his arrest didn't leak a drop of info to infest the social media rumor mill

-there is an actual picture of him with sketch #2 in the background posted on social media and its one of the only pictures where he seems to be smiling!

-his daughter posed for a picture on the bridge that was posted on social media after the murders - I feel so awful for her! I want to know who took the picture!!

-he actally assisted Becky with pulling photos off her phone and gave them to her free? Sick monster likely enjoyed the feeling of power he had in those moments and it makes me SO ANGRY!

-He initiated multiple conversations with people about the murders. Likely in an attempt to find out what others knew (local gossip) about the crimes. I wonder if he fed others with misinformation?

-wondering if 'small man syndrome' was at all a factor in these murders. "a condition where a man feels inadequate because of his short height and may try to overcompensate it with overly aggressive behaviour." I am not saying it was, just really wondering if he ever displayed any type of aggressive behaviour in the past that appeared to be triggered by feeling inadequate about his height.

-Becky and Mike Patty, Anna Williams and Kelsi German Siebert are all true class acts as they each navigate what should be private moments with feelings of joy, justice, bitterness, anger, relief, silence, etc. in a public setting.

I am in awe of their courage and unwavering faith.

It emotionally overwhelmed me when Becky responded to the reporter's question;

"What keeps you hopeful?"

Becky was clearly distraught and said, "If it were your child, would you have an option not to be hopeful? That's why we're hopeful."

-On Wednesday, October 26th 2022 Delphi's BG was finally arrested. Richard Matthew Allen was a face I had never seen on the body of a person who lived in all of our nightmares.

I hope he never sleeps again.


JMO

Well said, I can't imagine what the girls families have been and are still going through. I could see him having little man syndrome, he is lacking in height and probably lacking in most departments.

 

[Nikynoo]

I was doing some reading on this. We still don’t know if the state is seeking the death penalty. But, if they are, apparently it’s rare for a defendant to retain private counsel.

In this piece, Gull is referenced as having removed a private counsel on a death penalty case.

Defense attorneys say private counsel representing a death penalty defendant is rare in Indiana. Public defenders typically defend individuals charged with capital crimes because of the cost of the case coupled with the demands of preparing for trial.
(…)
Landis, executive director of the Indiana Public Defender Council, said he empathizes with the dilemma judges confront in these cases. The bench has to weigh the defendant’s right to choose counsel against the ability of the attorney to provide representation.

The Fort Wayne case, State of Indiana V. Marcus D. Dansby, 02D06-1609-MR-000010, could have provided some guidance for resolving that dilemma. Allen Superior Judge Frances Gull removed Nakos at the beginning of the year and appointed two public defenders, Michelle Kraus and Robert Gevers II.

Private attorneys in death penalty cases create dilemmas for judges, public defenders - The Indiana Lawyer

Capital cases are entering what one judge calls uncharted territory, faced with determining whether an accused killer is entitled to court-appointed counsel of his choice or must be represented by a lawyer certified to defend death penalty cases.

www.theindianalawyer.com

A list of Indiana death penalty-qualified public defenders can be found here:

Capital (Death Penalty) Attorney Roster

www.in.gov

Some states allow private counsel if they have DP experience/training. Is this not the case in Indiana?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Did it say which facility or is that a secret too? I don't see him in IN DOC but it's possible it has not been updated yet.
ETA-After thinking about it he technically is not in DOC custody, Carroll county still has custody of him.

JMO

Which facility is undisclosed, but while looking for it I noticed something I missed yesterday - RA requested the transfer!

DELPHI, Ind. (CBS) -- Richard Allen, the man charged with the murder of two young teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana more than five years ago, will be moved to state prison for his own safety.

Court records showed Thursday that Allen asked to be
transferred from the custody of the Carroll County, Indiana Sheriff's office to the custody of the Indiana Department of Corrections for safe keeping. The request was granted by Judge Benjamin Diener, court records show.

Richard Allen, man charged in girls' murder in Delphi, Indiana, to be moved to state prison for own safety

Allen, 50, of Delphi was charged with two counts of murder in the deaths of Abigail J. "Abby" Williams, 13, and Liberty Rose Lynn "Libby" German, 14.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[cattlekate]

I am trying hard to catch up from being two threads behind, and wanted to read everything so I don't repeat others' thoughts.

My mind is blown by so many things.... I will try to be brief.

These are my wth moments and thoughts and some involve 'power and control':

-I am in awe that the amazing people of Delphi who knew about the search of RA's home a week before his arrest didn't leak a drop of info to infest the social media rumor mill

-there is an actual picture of him with sketch #2 in the background posted on social media and its one of the only pictures where he seems to be smiling!

-his daughter posed for a picture on the bridge that was posted on social media after the murders - I feel so awful for her! I want to know who took the picture!!

-he actally assisted Becky with pulling photos off her phone and gave them to her free? Sick monster likely enjoyed the feeling of power he had in those moments and it makes me SO ANGRY!

-He initiated multiple conversations with people about the murders. Likely in an attempt to find out what others knew (local gossip) about the crimes. I wonder if he fed others with misinformation?

-wondering if 'small man syndrome' was at all a factor in these murders. "a condition where a man feels inadequate because of his short height and may try to overcompensate it with overly aggressive behaviour." I am not saying it was, just really wondering if he ever displayed any type of aggressive behaviour in the past that appeared to be triggered by feeling inadequate about his height.

-Becky and Mike Patty, Anna Williams and Kelsi German Siebert are all true class acts as they each navigate what should be private moments with feelings of joy, justice, bitterness, anger, relief, silence, etc. in a public setting.

I am in awe of their courage and unwavering faith.

It emotionally overwhelmed me when Becky responded to the reporter's question;

"What keeps you hopeful?"

Becky was clearly distraught and said, "If it were your child, would you have an option not to be hopeful? That's why we're hopeful."

-On Wednesday, October 26th 2022 Delphi's BG was finally arrested. Richard Matthew Allen was a face I had never seen on the body of a person who lived in all of our nightmares.

I hope he never sleeps again.


JMO

My guess is the photo of daughter on the bridge is from 2013/14 as part of a senior high school yearbook photo shoot.

Mom posted it on FB because it was handy for what she wanted to say.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Some states allow private counsel if they have DP experience/training. Is this not the case in Indiana?

From the Indiana Lawyer article (which now I can’t see, paywall), it is allowed. But often the resources of the defendant make for private counsel (or especially pro bono attorney) to be stretched too thin, and it leaves the way for a future appeal due to ineffective counsel. So, it’s allowed, but rarely happens.

 

[The Observer]

Which facility is undisclosed, but while looking for it I noticed something I missed yesterday - RA requested the transfer!

DELPHI, Ind. (CBS) -- Richard Allen, the man charged with the murder of two young teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana more than five years ago, will be moved to state prison for his own safety.

Court records showed Thursday that Allen asked to be
transferred from the custody of the Carroll County, Indiana Sheriff's office to the custody of the Indiana Department of Corrections for safe keeping. The request was granted by Judge Benjamin Diener, court records show.

Richard Allen, man charged in girls' murder in Delphi, Indiana, to be moved to state prison for own safety

Allen, 50, of Delphi was charged with two counts of murder in the deaths of Abigail J. "Abby" Williams, 13, and Liberty Rose Lynn "Libby" German, 14.

www.cbsnews.com

Yes well other inmates don't take to kindly to alleged child killers. He's going to realise that goes in every prison.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Which facility is undisclosed, but while looking for it I noticed something I missed yesterday - RA requested the transfer!

DELPHI, Ind. (CBS) -- Richard Allen, the man charged with the murder of two young teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana more than five years ago, will be moved to state prison for his own safety.

Court records showed Thursday that Allen asked to be
transferred from the custody of the Carroll County, Indiana Sheriff's office to the custody of the Indiana Department of Corrections for safe keeping. The request was granted by Judge Benjamin Diener, court records show.

Richard Allen, man charged in girls' murder in Delphi, Indiana, to be moved to state prison for own safety

Allen, 50, of Delphi was charged with two counts of murder in the deaths of Abigail J. "Abby" Williams, 13, and Liberty Rose Lynn "Libby" German, 14.

www.cbsnews.com

I thought the sheriff requested it. Documents at link.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0yBsbxKGgWeNjHorHwenm86rdh9VKQAL8sgpt21kKoHKuSYCNCAudJvKUJYHKQeEwl&id=100044311365463