Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

[Taffy550]

If this guy had an accomplice, he's going to take a plea deal. He's going to name people involved. Homicide probably has clear links on social media of his online associates. I hope the families get answers to all their questions. I hope the guy doesn't off himself in jail before Abby and Libby get justice. jmoo

 

[Spiritecho]

A whole lot of speculating, pontificating and general let's make some *advertiser censored* up and everyone see it and runs..far and fast...and then guess what, rumors abound and statements are twisted and misconstrued. Typical of this case. Without any proof of anything and our own guesses, that sadly, much has been proven wrong.
This is about Libby and Abby and LE finally arresting a man and saying they have 'their guy'. Let's hope this isn't as botched as it seems everything else has been from the time the girls were reported missing.
Many Judges will put more 'weight' on what the investigators and prosecutors ask for then a defendant, while trying to keep the defendant's rights intact. So my thought is, perhaps wrong, is that Judge Gull will NOT release the documents at this time. Especially if the prosecutors are saying there is another 'actor', I would hope the prosecution is at least able to show the Judge this pertinent info.
ALL MOO

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595082618844086273

 

[MissUnderstood]

As we would say in Aus “what a s**t show” This is all over the place! So many conflicting things. We’ve heard now that other/s may be involved, then we hear from RA attorney there’s not. We have the defence wanting PCA unsealed, prosecution says no, LE says we will understand when it’s out. This Judge doesn’t even see unredacted PCA, first judge says ‘ah no thanks, let me off this case!’ There may or may not be juvenile witness/s. RA wife is sticking by him, RA says he didn’t do it, his attorney believes him. Family not allowed to speak, RA wants out on bail and the people in this town may or may not be walking around with other guilty parties like they have been for the last six years. I’m sorry, but this isn’t good enough. Are the kids in this town safe or not! If I lived there I would be screaming for more information, accurate information, not the BS and CYA that’s been given so far. Rant over… MOO

 

[Charlot123]

Well dang, I was hoping for a pizza night while we dissected the PCA.

A few things of notable interest though:

his wife supporting him (not surprised, sadly, she'll be demonized ruthlessly by the know-it-alls on social media)
protection of underage witnesses (what?! how?? witnesses to what, exactly?)
and the prosecution believing there's another part involved (and yet not arrested for anything? what?!)

Very disappointed. We are back to 2019.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

As far as the prosecutor’s arguments for keeping the PCA sealed only one argument has any merit in my opinion.
1) Saying other people are involved might hold water, but I would argue that Doug Carter says unsealing won’t hurt the case. I am very skeptical that LE believes this since the defense attorneys say nothing in the PCA indicates this. Maybe it is in there but the defense attorneys would eventually be known as liars. Not a good look.
2) Naming witnesses is a bad idea. Yes it is. That why you redact them. Not hard.
3) Victims’ families desire PCA be left sealed. Much respect and love to them. They have been schooled by LE for over five years that releasing any information is bad so I can understand why they feel this way. Legally however this is not and argument and we are at that part of the case. The law favors transparency.
4) Petition to keep sealed…see #3.
Just my thoughts.

 

[ohiobuckeyegirl]

This is true, apologies, I’m a couple of glasses of red wine down. So let’s say 0.1%.

I was going to blame it on common core math, but we can go with the wine scenario. Sounds more fun lol

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Gemmie’s comment – I wonder whatever possessed him to go to the CS when it was between 34-37° outside at 10:16pm?

MOO IIRC this was not true. What is your source for stating he went to the CS? There is no proof that RL ever went to or was aware of a CS. With limited cell towers, it is not possible to pin down a location that precisely. I see nothing mentioning using GPS tracking that some phones have.

Initial exam of this analysis indicated RL’s phone was likely outside of his residence and in the proximity of where LG & AW’s bodies where located.

MOO They guessed that "likely" he was outside his residence when his phone was used/pinged. How does that turn into "in the proximity of where LG and AW were found" and then turns into he was for a fact at the CS? Theoretically, his entire property could be called in the proximity of the CS.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

There WERE others there late the evening of the murder, prior to their bodies being found, per RL's warrant

I'm not seeing what you are referring to. It does not say others were in the proximity of Ron Logan.

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

 

[Gemmie]

MOO IIRC this was not true. What is your source for stating he went to the CS? There is no proof that RL ever went to or was aware of a CS. With limited cell towers, it is not possible to pin down a location that precisely. I see nothing mentioning using GPS tracking that some phones have.

MOO They guessed that "likely" he was outside his residence when his phone was used/pinged. How does that turn into "in the proximity of where LG and AW were found" and then turns into he was for a fact at the CS? Theoretically, his entire property could be called in the proximity of the CS.

I transcribed portions of RL's Carroll Circuit Court PC in my post. My source was also linked in my post. That source is reposted for you at the bottom of this post.

From Pg 5:



Source: https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

I can't sum up how that turns into "the proximity of where LG and AW were found" other than what the PC states. I take them for their word unless they say otherwise.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I transcribed portions of RL's Carroll Circuit Court PC in my post. My source was also linked in my post. That source is reposted for you at the bottom of this post.

From Pg 5:

View attachment 382078

Source: https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

I can't sum up how that turns into "the proximity of where LG and AW were found" other than what the PC states. I take them for their word unless they say otherwise.

It does not state that Logan or anyone else went to the CS. It's not possible to quote that from the warrant.

MOO
"Likely outside his residence" isn't even a statement that he was outside.
Claiming that "outside his residence" is in proximity of where the bodies were found, is like saying his entire property is in proximity. It does not say at the location of the CS. Proximity refers to closeness, not being at a location.

 

[Nikynoo]

Interesting comment! What context would you add?

As I see it ….The girls were minors that he had no right or reason to take custody of. they were voluntarily on the bridge when he ordered them “down the hill” (and there may be more to the audio that wasn’t released). Then they failed to turn up at their intended meeting with a parent & were located murdered “down the hill.”

But we don't know that he took 'custody' of the girls do we? All we know is that he said 'guys, down the hill'. To me, that does not indicate a threat to anyone. If he had a gun, or another weapon, and said that, then yes, you could infer that he took the girls into 'custody'.

From reading through the threads here, it is suggested that there is nothing else of worth on the recording. That is why I said, we need context and the visual that goes with the sound .

 

[Charlot123]

There WERE others there late the evening of the murder, prior to their bodies being found, per RL's warrant. That's one of the things I outlined in my post (currently #151). I totally understand anyone deciding to scroll on by and not read it as it is loooonnngggg...

Pg 5, Line 23 – Analysis of RL’s cell phone data revealed a text message received by his phone at 10:16pm on 2/13/17. Initial exam of this analysis indicated RL’s phone was likely outside of his residence and in the proximity of where LG & AW’s bodies where located.

Gemmie’s comment – I wonder whatever possessed him to go to the CS when it was between 34-37° outside at 10:16pm? AND the girls hadn't even been found yet. Clean things up? Stage things? Look for Libby's phone? Take pics/souvenirs? Some or all of the above?

Source: https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

My post in the event this thread gets a cleanup and the post # no longer applies: Found Deceased - IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

We always talk about two cell towers in Delphi = impossible to triangulate. (Even when it is possible to triangulate, it is not always straightforward. Has anyone ever tried Uber delivery by "use your location" address? Where does the car driver usually call you from? About four houses down the road, right). How large was RL's property? Can we say that his house was in the "proximity" of the area where A@L's bodies were found? He said they were killed "in his backyard", how far away was it?

Here is how it looks

FBI Searched Home of Delphi Man Who Owned Land Where Girls Were Found

In 2017, Inside Edition interviewed the property owner, Ron Logan, who was asked to repeat "Down the hill" — words from a chilling recording taken by Libby German of their suspected killer's voice. Logan reportedly died of COVID-19. He was never charged.

www.insideedition.com

"Logan's voice was "not inconsistent with that of the person in the video." The warrant also declares that Logan's physical build is consistent with the suspect."

Now they say BG was RA. Logan was about 6 feet, with a lean built and long legs. RA, per the photos next to the pool's table, and today's one, too, has short pedestals of legs and is about 5'4". This is the cost of RL's search warrant to me.

Could RL still be the killer? Theoretically, he hasn't been cleared, but i think it is another
red herring. Jmo but RL will go the way of JBC and KAK and who not.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Wait, they had exhibits? I didn’t’ watch the video - who presented exhibits?? Defence or prosecution??!

FOX59 news reporter, Russ McQuaid said the prosecutor used 4 exhibits to support his position that the PC remain sealed. Two were from investigators who said, “Because of all the work we’ve done on this, we believe there’s sensitive information here. We don’t want this released to the public. Another one is a letter from Becky Patty. Of course she is Libby German’s grandmother. She said she didn’t want that information out”. The Prosecutor referenced an online petition which he said had gathered 40,000 signatures which showed there was widespread support for continuing the seal on the PCA.

The judge took the redacted PCA during the hearing and said she was going to issue a written advisement on it. She said she wasn’t entering it as an exhibit so it would not necessarily become part of the public file but rather, taking it under advisement for her review privately. Conceivably she could decide within 24 hours and she may want to get it off her desk before the holiday (Thursday and Friday). She could do it that quickly.

The prosecutor anticipated that the judge would want a redacted copy of the PCA in order to give her approval to release that information so he was prepared and came to court with a redacted copy.

McQuaid was asked if RMA had any family member in the courtroom, specifically his daughter or his wife. He replied that there were 2 older women sitting right in front of him that were shown to special seats, secluded – set aside for them. There were at least a couple of dozen members of the victims’ families and the rest of the courtroom was filled out basically by the media and it was ringed by at least 10-12 LE officers including State troopers, Carroll County sheriff’s deputies and an attorney representing Indianapolis news media who filed a brief yesterday indicating that it would be appropriate to release this information publicly. His brief was accepted but he wasn’t called upon to offer any argument or testimony before the judge.

 

[Davemac1]

Going back to Kegan Kline and regarding his possible visit to a gas station in Delphi on the day of the murders.
We know the FBI 'accidently forgot' to check the tapes, but was there any other CCTV in the area? He strikes me as the kind of fella that couldn't go 5 minutes without stopping for something to eat.
It's a 40 odd minute drive from Peru to Delphi. Have LE checked any CCTV from food outlets across that route on the day of the murders?

 

[5W's]

MOO IIRC this was not true. What is your source for stating he went to the CS? There is no proof that RL ever went to or was aware of a CS. With limited cell towers, it is not possible to pin down a location that precisely. I see nothing mentioning using GPS tracking that some phones have.

MOO They guessed that "likely" he was outside his residence when his phone was used/pinged. How does that turn into "in the proximity of where LG and AW were found" and then turns into he was for a fact at the CS? Theoretically, his entire property could be called in the proximity of the CS.

Are we talking about a tower dump here? Where LE can know whose phone was closeby? I wonder if on that day the perp had thier cell phone with them? If ther perp didn't have it then to me there are some indications here that it may be premditated as there was an intention to harm to begin with. Also to me that suggests the perp knew about tower dumps and was cautios to avoid being detected. Or perhaps there was another way around this that the perp knew from another source in order to evade. Maybe like other criminals. Tech saavy criminal/s?

 

[5W's]

FOX59 news reporter, Russ McQuaid said the prosecutor used 4 exhibits to support his position that the PC remain sealed. Two were from investigators who said, “Because of all the work we’ve done on this, we believe there’s sensitive information here. We don’t want this released to the public. Another one is a letter from Becky Patty. Of course she is Libby German’s grandmother. She said she didn’t want that information out”. The Prosecutor referenced an online petition which he said had gathered 40,000 signatures which showed there was widespread support for continuing the seal on the PCA.

The judge took the redacted PCA during the hearing and said she was going to issue a written advisement on it. She said she wasn’t entering it as an exhibit so it would not necessarily become part of the public file but rather, taking it under advisement for her review privately. Conceivably she could decide within 24 hours and she may want to get it off her desk before the holiday (Thursday and Friday). She could do it that quickly.

The prosecutor anticipated that the judge would want a redacted copy of the PCA in order to give her approval to release that information so he was prepared and came to court with a redacted copy.

McQuaid was asked if RMA had any family member in the courtroom, specifically his daughter or his wife. He replied that there were 2 older women sitting right in front of him that were shown to special seats, secluded – set aside for them. There were at least a couple of dozen members of the victims’ families and the rest of the courtroom was filled out basically by the media and it was ringed by at least 10-12 LE officers including State troopers, Carroll County sheriff’s deputies and an attorney representing Indianapolis news media who filed a brief yesterday indicating that it would be appropriate to release this information publicly. His brief was accepted but he wasn’t called upon to offer any argument or testimony before the judge.

Oh this is so sad what if it was Abby & Libby's families who were behind the petition to keep the PC sealed. So difficult for them. I mean its already so awful for them and then this also. Wow. Its just horrendous what they have been through and now they had to deal with this too. Its just unimaginable to me.

 

[Confusion]

Once again I forgot to use the multi-quote feature, so I'll just paraphrase the parts I remember from multiple posts. I've believed since the first day that more than one person was involved, but I stopped mentioning it because too many people disagreed and it took away from the points I was actually trying to make. I'll try to keep this from crossing any lines (I've seen RL mentioned enough times that I'm hoping that means he's still an acceptable subject to mention.)

I haven't heard if RL and RA were friendly, but it seems like they may have had a lot of interactions while RA was working in the pharmacy considering RL's age and (possible/probable) ailments. It's also possible that RA had driven RL to different places during the time of his license suspension. Because of that, I can think of a couple reasons why RL may have used RA as an alibi. 1.) RL may have gone to Lafayette and possibly stopped for a beer or two. He may have lied about how he went because he assumed he'd be asked. 2.) If RA had murdered the girls, he could have gone to RL's house to get out of sight, get cleaned up and go somewhere to establish an alibi. This would have made RL an accomplice after the fact, which would keep him from telling the truth. 3.) The 2 of them could have done it together in any number of ways.

Unfortunately, I have a hard time believing the two of them were involved together in any way, but it is easy to come up with scenarios with them.

 

[Laughing]

Going back to Kegan Kline and regarding his possible visit to a gas station in Delphi on the day of the murders.
We know the FBI 'accidently forgot' to check the tapes, but was there any other CCTV in the area? He strikes me as the kind of fella that couldn't go 5 minutes without stopping for something to eat.
It's a 40 odd minute drive from Peru to Delphi. Have LE checked any CCTV from food outlets across that route on the day of the murders?

Great question!

Using Google Maps, it looks like a Logansport stop is likely. Zooming in shows a gas station/convenience store in Clymers, but not in Burrows.

Interesting thought.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[FromGermany1]

I never had RL on my list of poi (if I remember well ), but RL is THE ONLY PERSON, who could have walked around his "backyard" the whole night between Febr 13th and Febr 14th without fear to be seen by a searcher. He merely needed to be able, getting "very astonished!!" about two dead girls there on his ground, nothing more, if he suddenly had met some other person. He was the only one on the property, who didn't have to flee. He would have made a good accomplice, perhaps. Why he should have done that, I can't imagine.
IF the property owner RL and RA had indeed a connection, then I believe, they were known to one another through their "hobby" drinking at a pub. Whoever likes to do it, always knows a lot of men, who also like to do it (drinking). MOO