Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

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steeltowngirl said:
The defense attorney Andrew Baldwin begins at 2:53, here are my notes.

They are receiving calls from all over country. Some may be a hoax? His wife is a wonderful person, high school sweethearts, they love each other, she fully supports him. She had to leave house. She is in a better place than she was a month ago.

He says his client is wrong guy. Nothing to hide. Although it may seem weird for defense lawyers wanting things unsealed, they are confident nothing in PCA is for them to worry about.

Rick is bewildered and confused. No idea why this going on. How an innocent man can have life turned upside down? How can an innocent man be convicted in court of public opinion? They are getting calls from people saying Rick is not the right guy.

His says they cannot handle suppression issue in public. Documents need to be unsealed. Baldwin says RA looked him in the eye and said he’s innocent. They are not impressed with PCA.

Second person involved is news to them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595082618844086273
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Really sounds concerning BUT this could be the defense attorney simply saying to the prosecution 2 can play at this game and first liar doesn't stand a chance. (again this is was we need some level of transparency.
 
LammyTheRobot said:
If "other parties" are the reason that LEA wants the probable cause affidavit to remain under seal, and yet the defence lawyer is saying no other parties are mentioned in that same affidavit, then how can it be used as a reason for the affidavit to remain sealed?
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Le Singe said:
One last thing the prosecution better gosh darn sincerely believe and have some evidence that someone else is involved, and the KAK is related somehow because if not their bumbling incompetence and terrible communication strategy has basically created a really good defense for RA that it’s entirely possible good attorneys could turn into reason doubt in a 50/50 case.
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MOO I think it's a misinterpretation of the prosecutor's justifications for wanting to keep the PC sealed, to think it's a statement/confirmation that someone else is involved. The probable cause must state that RA is responsible for the murders and the reasons why. It would be absurd for a judge to approve of an affidavit that said RA took an unknown part of a murder with an unknown accomplice. Just being BG is not enough. RA has to be independently identified in the PC as being responsible for the deaths.

The list of reasons has everything and anything possible on it, to convince the judge not to release it, it's a lot of "maybes".

There is no need to prove someone else was involved because of this excuse being used by the prosecutor. Conversely, it shows due diligence and thoroughness, which can counter targeting and narrow vision claims by the defense.
MOO The idea that KAK has to somehow be involved in this murder, is the product of obsession and speculation on the internet. This does not mean that he was the primary focus of LE all these years and he clearly was never considered to be BG. I could see the defense trying to use this at trial but showing that LE was ever convinced KAK was involved, is not proved by quoting podcasters. Investigating KAK and asking for anyone contacted/catfished to come forward, is still a part of his separate CSAM case. MOO
 
NoSpoonFeeding said:
MOO I think it's a misinterpretation of the prosecutor's justifications for wanting to keep the PC sealed, to think it's a statement/confirmation that someone else is involved. The probable cause must state that RA is responsible for the murders and the reasons why. It would be absurd for a judge to approve of an affidavit that said RA took an unknown part of a murder with an unknown accomplice. Just being BG is not enough. RA has to be independently identified in the PC as being responsible for the deaths.

The list of reasons has everything and anything possible on it, to convince the judge not to release it, it's a lot of "maybes".

There is no need to prove someone else was involved because of this excuse being used by the prosecutor. Conversely, it shows due diligence and thoroughness, which can counter targeting and narrow vision claims by the defense.
MOO The idea that KAK has to somehow be involved in this murder, is the product of obsession and speculation on the internet. This does not mean that he was the primary focus of LE all these years and he clearly was never considered to be BG. I could see the defense trying to use this at trial but showing that LE was ever convinced KAK was involved, is not proved by quoting podcasters. Investigating KAK and asking for anyone contacted/catfished to come forward, is still a part of his separate CSAM case. MOO
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If it is KAK, surely DNA would already have connected him? If there is - as LEA says - perp DNA at the scene. Idk.
 
asyousay said:
Sucks being in the UK as access denied due to EU rules.
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This kinda ruins the page layout but scroll down and the body text is there - if not, click "Text Only View" and it'll work.

webcache.googleusercontent.com

'He is innocent' | Attorneys for Delphi suspect release statement on client's involvement in murder investigation

Defense lawyers for Richard Allen say their client has tried to help investigators over the five years since Libby German and Abby Williams were killed.
webcache.googleusercontent.com
 
NoSpoonFeeding said:
MOO I think it's a misinterpretation of the prosecutor's justifications for wanting to keep the PC sealed, to think it's a statement/confirmation that someone else is involved. The probable cause must state that RA is responsible for the murders and the reasons why. It would be absurd for a judge to approve of an affidavit that said RA took an unknown part of a murder with an unknown accomplice. Just being BG is not enough. RA has to be independently identified in the PC as being responsible for the deaths.

The list of reasons has everything and anything possible on it, to convince the judge not to release it, it's a lot of "maybes".

There is no need to prove someone else was involved because of this excuse being used by the prosecutor. Conversely, it shows due diligence and thoroughness, which can counter targeting and narrow vision claims by the defense.
MOO The idea that KAK has to somehow be involved in this murder, is the product of obsession and speculation on the internet. This does not mean that he was the primary focus of LE all these years and he clearly was never considered to be BG. I could see the defense trying to use this at trial but showing that LE was ever convinced KAK was involved, is not proved by quoting podcasters. Investigating KAK and asking for anyone contacted/catfished to come forward, is still a part of his separate CSAM case. MOO
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From what I have read (IANAL) there aren't many reasons to keep legal proceedings closed or gagged. One of the few reasons (apparently sex crime of a minor is not one) to keep the information from being released is that it has to be shown that there is a compelling government interest. One such compelling reason would be other suspects which is probably where the KAK speculation has entered the picture. Another would be loss of additional evidence. I think yet another would be national security but I seriously doubt that applies here :).
JMO based on my reading but my interpretation is amateur.
 
LammyTheRobot said:
This kinda ruins the page layout but scroll down and the body text is there - if not, click "Text Only View" and it'll work.

webcache.googleusercontent.com

'He is innocent' | Attorneys for Delphi suspect release statement on client's involvement in murder investigation

Defense lawyers for Richard Allen say their client has tried to help investigators over the five years since Libby German and Abby Williams were killed.
webcache.googleusercontent.com
Click to expand...




Thanks so much for the help :)



This is interesting



"That's how confident we are that the evidence contained — at least what's written in the probable cause affidavit — is nothing for us to worry about," Baldwin said. "We're confident that whatever is out there is not going to be enough to show that our client did anything here."

Baldwin said Allen is "confused" and "bewildered" at the accusations against him. He also said Allen had plenty of supporters, and they've received many calls from people who don't believe Allen is responsible for the murders.

"I've got a guy here who says he's innocent ... and what I would say, a very flimsy probable cause affidavit. Those are the two things that I do know," Baldwin said.
 
IMO, the defence has nothing to lose. They look like they are for freedom of information since it does not, in their opinion, point to their defendant as the culprit. But once it is released they may not be able to honestly claim that? So, in my opinion, they are taking advantage of the situation. Then once it is released, it could be so damning that they must have a change of venue. Defence attorneys love to see their words in print. IMO
 
pseudo_hum said:
IMO, the defence has nothing to lose. They look like they are for freedom of information since it does not, in their opinion, point to their defendant as the culprit. But once it is released they may not be able to honestly claim that? So, in my opinion, they are taking advantage of the situation. Then once it is released, it could be so damning that they must have a change of venue. Defence attorneys love to see their words in print. IMO
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Could be. But state is not doing itself any favors here.
 
If there was indeed more than one participant in these murders, I wonder if RA's reaction is sincere in the sense that he didn't commit the actual act, but was present when it happened. JMO







Also if there was more than one participant at the crime scene I wonder how their voice wasn't also picked up on Libby's phone.
 
It’s just bizarre. Why would the prosecution use an online petition as a reason to keep the PCA sealed? The argument should be made on the contents of the affidavit and the law, not an online petition signed by thousands of people who have no idea what the affidavit contains. Not getting the warm and fuzzies about the prosecution, seems they are in over their heads.
 
The defense lawyers said what they had to - not like they can go on camera and say "yeah after reading the PCA our guy probably did it". However, the mention of other people involved which according to RA's attorney is not specifically mentioned in the PCA is strange. There's something very unsettling here and leads me to think there's this vast web of individuals that conspired to murder A&L or they don't have much.

Either way, it's bizarre that LE is fighting so hard to keep the PCA sealed while the defense is fighting to have it released. Inverse of how it usually goes and I am afraid it might speak to the strength of their current case against RA.
 
Notascreenname said:
If there was indeed more than one participant in these murders, I wonder if RA's reaction is sincere in the sense that he didn't commit the actual act, but was present when it happened. JMO







Also if there was more than one participant at the crime scene I wonder how their voice wasn't also picked up on Libby's phone.
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The "G...DTH" was said at the end of the 43 second audio (per HLN and the RL affidavit). If someone else was involved on-scene, maybe they were below the bridge and not encountered until after the audio stopped. But someone else being involved could also mean having a role before or after the crime. Hope we find out more soon.
 
TL4S said:
The "G...DTH" was said at the end of the 43 second audio (per HLN and the RL affidavit). If someone else was involved on-scene, maybe they were below the bridge and not encountered until after the audio stopped. But someone else being involved could also mean having a role before or after the crime. Hope we find out more soon.
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Agreed on all fronts. At some point, they have to release the info otherwise it sets a precedent that LE can just arrest someone and not share the reasons why outside of their attorney and the accused. That's not how a transparent legal system works. I've been strongly supporting LE throughout this and hope there's a very good reason why things are unfolding as they are, but situations like today are making me waiver.
 
NoSpoonFeeding said:
MOO I think it's a misinterpretation of the prosecutor's justifications for wanting to keep the PC sealed, to think it's a statement/confirmation that someone else is involved. The probable cause must state that RA is responsible for the murders and the reasons why. It would be absurd for a judge to approve of an affidavit that said RA took an unknown part of a murder with an unknown accomplice. Just being BG is not enough. RA has to be independently identified in the PC as being responsible for the deaths.

The list of reasons has everything and anything possible on it, to convince the judge not to release it, it's a lot of "maybes".

There is no need to prove someone else was involved because of this excuse being used by the prosecutor. Conversely, it shows due diligence and thoroughness, which can counter targeting and narrow vision claims by the defense.
MOO The idea that KAK has to somehow be involved in this murder, is the product of obsession and speculation on the internet. This does not mean that he was the primary focus of LE all these years and he clearly was never considered to be BG. I could see the defense trying to use this at trial but showing that LE was ever convinced KAK was involved, is not proved by quoting podcasters. Investigating KAK and asking for anyone contacted/catfished to come forward, is still a part of his separate CSAM case. MOO
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But the charge is felony murder so in reality all the affidavit has to do is create probably cause to arrest fir felony murder (death during commission of felony - ie kidnapping or SA etc) so I think the PC affidavit is probably pretty bare bones.
 
I don't think LE would have been allowed to press ahead with charges etc if they were not confident and concrete in regards to what they have on RA. His defence also can't come out and say anything else in regards to his innocence, they have their own job to do in this. That said, I really really hope the case against RA is both correct and watertight.
 
I know it's skipped over but I thought the first defense lawyer made a good point. He said his client said he's innocent, the PCA did not convince him otherwise, so he believes his client is innocent and will wait for the discovery. He said they did not see discovery from the state yet.

The state has to have actual evidence to prove the crime beyond a reasonable doubt and it has to be shared with the defense in short order. The attorneys may have a different view once they see the actual evidence supporting the state's claim. Maybe there is good evidence and it's not in the PCA. The defense won't know until they see it.

But I think it is important to remember that the defense attorney is appointed by the state to defend this guy. They're often the only people in the world defending the guy. So they have to do their best to actually DEFEND the guy even if he's unpopular. But they also have to be realistic about the evidence once it is disclosed to them.

We'll see what the case looks like. At least for now it sounds like we might actually get a trial.
 
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