Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

[LeBlack]

That’s another thing I’m curious about. Was no one home when he returned all bloody and muddy? Did he often wash clothes, especially jackets? Would he know to use cold water (I didn’t)? There might have been enough time for him to wash, dry and put away the clothing before his family noticed, but then you’re getting into past dinner time.

MOO
Maybe his wife normally did laundry on Saturday. That would leave him the entire workweek to wash everything 2 or 3 times before drying. Or just throw the clothes in the shed that she never goes to?

People hide drug habits from their spouses, what's a bloody outfit?
IMO

A family man with a daughter would probably know that cold water and peroxide removes blood. maybe learned it in his small talk at CVS? Also MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

They are not definitive marks, unlike the striation on fired rounds and firing pin mark on spent casings. It's good enough for a Probable Cause Search Warrant, but very unlikely to even be used at trial.
IMHO

Maybe, I guess that will depend on whether or not there is more ballistic evidence that we are not aware of at this time.

 

[Peppery]

Why is everyone assuming he ran home and put his 'muddy and bloody' clothing in the wash? I imagine he took a 'drive' somewhere later that day or next and disposed of it.
Is it really believed he has the same blue jacket and blue jeans 5 years later?
Why the talk about boot prints found? Where is a link to that? or is it speculation?

What we are obtaining from the PC is that 'based on a tip' RA was looked at again. Right? If that is the case, how do you propose the 3 girls THEN could be brought in for a line up? Be shown some photos? At best there are 2 DIFFERENT descriptions of the man seen that day. I doubt he could have been picked as the man they saw. So, IMO, LE did not fail to get those girls in asap for identification, THEN.

I also am still stumped why everyone is so shocked, it was stated, repeatedly, BG lived there or was from there, he does not resemble either sketch, IMO, enough to be named BG, but what if that was the tip received and it got lost in the shuffle. We just don't know and this constant twisting the barest facts we have just creates chaos and rumor.
I'm also stumped by the thought that 'it's very clear' he had a Sig in his jacket that day, nope, it's not. At least to me, and nope I do not need a photo with something circled. Just sayin.

Much of this will just have to wait until more info is released or trial.

In the PCA, LE spoke with him and his wife who confirmed he still owns the blue Carhartt jacket. They also have a witness who saw a muddy and bloody man walking away from the bridge on 300 North.

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/08C01-2210-MR-000001.pdf

 

[SMK777]

RA is 5’7” which was established in numerous comments right here using his booking photo to determine (his height).

• At mycase.in.gov
• Allen, Richard M —Date of birth 09/09/1972
• Click search
• He has 3 results—all infractions.
• Click on first link.
• Under his name it lists his address in Delphi, Indiana
• It also says he is 5 foot 4, 180 pounds.

 

[weather_lady]

That would be hot evidence - if they set up a trail cam at any point it showed him looking for it later when it had settled down? Yeah I read too many crime novels. I’ll see myself out.

Then I guess I'll have to leave with you.

I've thought from the beginning, based on what little we knew -- that the girls' bodies had been staged in a very specific and presumably unusual way (based on LE's statement to the killer early on that they were "not how you left them") and that the killer had taken souvenirs from the crime scene such as pieces of the girls' clothing -- that the killer was fulfilling a fantasy that he wanted to remember. As such, it seemed obvious that he would probably return to the scene, not to retrieve evidence, but just to relive the crime. If I was one of the investigating officers, I'd absolutely have had hidden cameras out there! (And for all we know, maybe they did.)

 

[layer]

Right! I suspect they have enough other evidence to have RA pinned down and his legal team will be looking to make a deal to avoid the death penalty. But that may just be wishful thinking, I so want justice for these girls.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Just a thought. He might've been wearing a face mask at work during the pandemic, either required by CVS or voluntarily. Along with possibly changing his appearance, a face mask could've easily prevented people from recognizing him.

I ran into one of my best friends in a store during the pandemic. Between the mask covering half of her face and muffling her voice, I had no idea who she was. She said hi, asked how Hubby and I were doing, then after a quick chat, she went on about her shopping. I turned to Hubby and asked, "Who was THAT?"

What about the 3 years prior to the pandemic though? Jmo

 

[LeBlack]

It's interesting the search warrant for RL, which has a lot of details about some things (hair and fiber found, redacted short description or word about the type of weapon), did not mention the recovered round or the mention of "gun" on the video. Certainly the strategy of holding certain things back has been in play since the beginning and of course there is still material evidence undisclosed. While the PCA does not implicate a 2nd person, LE seems clearly to believe that and perhaps there is some physical evidence toward that as yet undisclosed. I find it hard to believe a 2nd person was at the scene, but it's not out of the question perhaps.

IMO
Maybe the fresh cigarette found near the CS did not belong to RA.

 

[Megnut]

We have to wonder - did they write such a scant PCA knowing the public would likely gain access to it and that they were still investigating some aspect or someone possibly in regards to this crime??

The problem is Libby’s sister was invited on the walk but she had to work so said no.

If Libby had secret plans to meet a boy she would not of taken her older sister who no doubt would have been furious and told their parents straight away because of the dangers involved.


This is why I don’t believe there was some ulterior motive that afternoon to go and meet a strange boy. Moo

It is MOO that, if they were meeting anyone at the bridge, it was "EmilyAnn." That is catfishing on a whole other level.

JMO

 

[Gemmie]

This is a random picture of a 2016 Black FF kind of parked like witnesses described seeing it at the CPS building.


View attachment 383900

And backed in.

 

[Curiousgus]

Posting this with updated opinions as i feel it will help many members and visitors on this forum.

In my opinion RA is guilty of the murders and will be found guilty in a court of law.I believe he acted alone during the murders and was alone with the 2 victims at scene of the murders....that being said here are some thoughts

1) IMO RA went to LE first (Friendly conservation officer?) to let them know he was on the bridge but did not see the girls or anything suspicious.He did this because he knew the other 3 girls saw him leaving the area and would surely tell LE of his presence on the bridge that day. IMO the 3 girl witneses statement came AFTER RA made his "helpful info report" This is a KEY reason RA got away for so long.

His report went unnoticed for several different reasons. One being in the very early stages of the investigation the initial description of the suspect looked nothing like RA.Another is The " local friendly" LE he made his "helpfull tip" too never thought twice about it ,as his statement like several others on the bridge that day was originally OFFERED in good faith from concerned local citizens trying to help LE (RA went to them to help,they did not go looking for him). At the time his "tip" was given, LE probably had not gained access to the victims phones and that video yet.The "friendly" LE officer probably had no knowledge of the 40call bullit found as he was not "in the know" on that piece of information let aloine if RA owned a 40cal. By the time the video and alternate description came out,who knows how many tips and reports that same officer made.Would it have been nice if the officer made that connection back in 2017 ? yes ofcoarse...should we blame him for not making the connection? Absolutley not ..Add KK, into the mix and all the lies he brought to the investigation.the landowners lies,DN lies and the numerous SO in the area that were also suspects and you have a perfect storm for RA to miracuously fly under the radar...until...they revisit the ENTIRE CASE and EVERY REPORT made in the case in late 2022.

The report RA made was never looked at until recently by new investigators (Kathy Shank?) who found the old "tipster" report and then made the connection with bullit/gun ownership and/or the fact RA was on the bridge that day and mtched the description almost to a T ,as she possibly knew what RA looked like due to her being a customer of cvs or within an official capicity dealing with her child protective case and medications for minors ..or both. Other then the 1 report she was looking at ,there was no mention of RA anywhere in the entire investigation(AHA! MOMENT).IMO Once that connection was made everything else fell into place:the gun,dna,boot prints,blood...etc. They never looked at RA at all , let alone as a suspect until this newest connection was made. He got very lucky to get away with it for so long.I Would not put blame on LE but rather bad timing and back luck .


2) Docs state that Along with RA's 40cal sig they also took his clothes,jacket and BOOTS...I believe they matched boot prints from the scene to his boots .The dox state one eye witness stated RA looked bloody and MUDDY. Muddy means boot prints.

3) RA during his first "tipster statement" said he parked at the Farm Beauro building (actually the old cps building) I do not think this was a mistake on his part.This is a very small town ,everybody knows everybody and what buildings were what.he knew what the building was previously. IMO He did not want to utter the words "child protective services building" to LE ...either out of pure guilt or a connection to that building/agency he did not want to reveal or both.. This is possibly how Kathy Shank comes into the picture ?

3) LE states BOTH victims clothes were found a distance away from their bodies by a a water source. This would lead me to believe he had some sort of sexual contact with the victims and may have left DNA that has now been matched to him.
AS i stated in my earlier post I believe they have RA dead to rights guilty. They used the 40cal and eye witness statements that align with the time frames victim were at the bridge for probable cause to charge him. When it comes closer to trial I feel more substantial evidence against him will come out. IE boot prints,his dna on victims, victims dna on his clothes.

5) IMO RA returned to the bridge with his own daughter in early 2018 but after feb 14th and took the pic to set up an "im a good daddy " alibi if he was to need one in the future : "Well I go to that bridge all the time...I even go with my own daughter! Why do you think I tried to help yall in 2017" I noticed in the pic RAs wife posted to Facebook in 2018 that the leaves on the trees are missing , leading me to believe the photo was taken early 2018 So I did a search for news articles about Delphi murders from jan2018-april2018 and located and interesting video of a press conference at the bridge on the 1 year anniversary of the victims murders. Not only does the State Police exclude DN as a suspect he goes on to say the following:
SP Superintendent Carter said. “I came to plead and implore you to keep this out front and center.”
Carter went on to address why the Delphi case is so personal to him.

“It’s personal to me because those two young girls were everybody’s DAUGHTERS,” Carter said. “In this beautiful place that represents the very best of humanity, and look what happened.”

I believe RA saw this news conference, realized the heat was back on and took his daughter to the bridge to again make himself seem like a good local family man that visited the area often ,even with his own Daughter and back up his previous "tipster info he made to LE in 2017
Link to news conference :kktv.com/content/news/Nations-no-longer-a-major-concern-in-Delphi-murders-474116613.html


6)These dox do not contain ALL of the evidence against RA !!!!! They contain ENOUGH evidence to charge him !!!
Imo there is ALOT more evidence that has not been released yet. I.E. boot prints,his DNA on them, possibly their DNA on his belongings...and possible "trophy" he kepy

This Case is not hinged on 1 single unspent 40cal bullit and a descripton of a man in jeans and a hooded jacket


7)These decades long career LEO's and Sheriffs did not get on National live TV Press conference in tears to announce an arrest unless they had a MOUNTAIN of EVIDENCE against RA !!!

THEY GOT HIM !


P.S. This is post #777 in this enitre thread so you kind of have to listen a lil bit lol

This may have been addressed, but when in the sequence of events did he see the three girls? When he was his way to the bridge/before he came across Libby and Abby? And did tbe mud/blood come from a fight/struggle with them in that they fought back or from staging the bodies?

 

[aseph]

Latest episode of the Murder Sheets pod (ep. 150) is reporting that one of the reasons why RA was looked over back in 2017 was:

"We don't have all the answers, but we can provide some information"
"The details we have confirmed sketch out a scenario where it boils down to a clerical error at the hands of a civilian employee of the FBI"
"Basically, it was misfiled"

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

About the 5 minute mark

edit: link to pod

 

[krAL2007]

They are not definitive marks, unlike the striation on fired rounds and firing pin mark on spent casings. It's good enough for a Probable Cause Search Warrant, but very unlikely to even be used at trial.
IMHO

I was wondering this: would ejection marks be specific to a particular gun or specific to that particular *make* of gun? As in, would the ejection mark match only to his gun or to any 40 caliber? I don’t know enough about these types of marks to know if it’s like when a bullet is fired and it has almost like a fingerprint specific to that gun.

 

[Gemmie]

I’m late to the proverbial party on this case, but i came here to say what you said. Why was there no mention of the unspent round in RL’s documents Or the girls saying “gun”. This is so strange, like they are throwing stuff to see what sticks. It’s going to give his defense ammunition, especially considering how hard they went after RL. The police are really looking bad on this one.

eta: moo and I’m sure I don’t have all of the facts available.

Yeah, I've attached the PCA for you. Here is where it's mentioned in the PCA that one of them saw the gun and warned the other one about.



On numbered page 2 of 8 (or page 7): Adobe Acrobat

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Websleuths is basically pro-LE. The general LE bashing in this thread has to stop or permanent thread bans or TOs will be issued.

 

[weather_lady]

For what it's worth, this site offers a brief discussion of the ways that ejection (or "ejector") marks (as well as breech marks and firing pin impressions), are made, and how they can potentially be used to identify a weapon.

Impressed Action Marks- FirearmsID.com

Forensic Firearms Identification is a discipline of Forensic Science that has as a primary concern to identify fired ammunition components as having been fired from a specific firearm.

www.firearmsid.com

 

[Derph]

I think people are misunderstanding the PCA in that RA didn't describe what he was wearing until he was interviewed again on Oct 13th, 2022: Second Paragraph on page 5 of 8 of the PCA:

He told investigators he was wearing blue jeans and a blue or black Carhart jacket with a hood. He advised he may have been wearing some type of head covering as well.

Remember it was an unusually warm day that Feb 13th. Why would he even be wearing a face or head covering? Because he was trying to conceal his identity. The same with walking with his head down as he passed the juvenile witnesses.

MOO

It's 65 degrees where I live right now and I'm indoors. I'm wearing a black beanie on my head and do most of the time. It's just something I do. Also, I know I'm not the only person who wears a hat most of the time. Doesn't have to be a warm one, but I kind of feel naked without some kind of hat on. I also have long hair and it helps keep hair out of my eyes.

A whole other thing to consider is it's looks like RA is bald or has a very short or 'buzz' cut hair style. I know a lot of men with really short hair or who are completely bald that wear some kind of headgear. One, it's because it's colder without any hair so wearing a hat, beanie, bandana, scarf or shemagh is not uncommon at all even in warm weather. Just saying.

A few people a number of pages back were commenting on bloody and muddy clothes and how that might appear on RA's clothes, car or other places. I think maybe he tried to wash-up in the river using some of the clothes he took off of the girls. That might have taken a lot of the obvious blood remains and stains off of his outer layer(s) of clothes like the jacket and pants. It would also explain why the witness said he appeared wet and muddy.

 

[LeBlack]

This may have been addressed, but when in the sequence of events did he see the three girls? When he was his way to the bridge/before he came across Libby and Abby? And did tbe mud/blood come from a fight/struggle with them in that they fought back or from staging the bodies?

 

[DancingMuse]

We need a laundry expert. How long would blood stay on clothing, like how many washes? Would laundry additives deteriorate DNA? I’m honestly shocked that he kept the jacket. And possibly the jeans. If LE can find the girls DNA on his clothing or car, he is dunzo.

Agreeing w/ you Peppery,
A laundry expert would be great.

A veterinary expert too. And a pharmacological one.

What if he didn't go home after murdering the two girls? Instead, what if he had access to his wife's veterinary office? Don't such establishments have large showers? Rooms with floors that slope and which have drains ? He could have washed himself and all his clothing there?

Also, doesn't a vet's office have many surgical implements available: Did RA have access to industrial strength cleaning capabilities, surgery/cutting equipment, etc.?

It always makes me wonder with someone who works in a pharmacy, also, or has a family member who is a Dr./Vet, etc.: What kind of meds can someone obtain? Was RA on some high-grade "speed" or hormone drug that day in 2017 which gave him more strength, energy, or risk-taking aptitude?

So Scary to think about.

I applaud LE on all the work they did on this case. My sense is that...... the trial may have a STAGGERING amount of evidence to show.

MOO.

 

[TL4S]

So, I can't get past RI saying he couldn't imagine a motivation for this crime, that it was so very strange. He said it in the context of how other murders often have an obvious motive. Two teenage girls found kidnapped, naked, and murdered in the woods, likely by an adult male, yet the motivation isn't clear? I'm not questioning RI, I'm just wondering what details we do not yet have.