Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[5W's]

That's interesting info. Thanks. We always learn on Websleuths. I'm interested to know at any time RA try to deceive LE with his phone activity. If he did it would be on LE to prove the deception.

 

[Gemmie]

Now, I'm not disagreeing with you but there could also be another explanation for this receipt and that could be it was actually someone else's that he was able to obtain.

Yes, I thought about that myself. Like how he could have given someone else his credit card to make the purchase so it ties back to him and his card and never actually leaving his property. I know I haven't ever once had to show my ID when I've used my card, nor has anyone checked my signature on the back of my card in I don't know how many decades. They used to make sure the person using the card was the actual owner but it's been a long, long time since I've seen that. Maybe it's different in IN but I doubt it.

He also could have made the purchase himself but he didn't necessarily have to leave between 2:00-2:30 for Lafayette like the alibi he tried to create for himself asking his cousin to lie for him. All that was outlined in the post I referred back to in my post you're responding to. Did you have a chance to check that out?

 

[5W's]

Or the cash register time was wrong, though surely that would be verified.

True. In this horrific case I really hope everything has been verified because otherwise it really will not give an exact picture of what transpired. This is my fear that possibly in the end this what is going to happen as we can see many crucial moments were overlooked until now. If they hadn't been overlooked there would have been an arrest a long time ago so IMO my fear is valid. I think this is a point that should really be taken into condieration.

 

[Gemmie]

Here's one without a paywall

Delphi murders - Google My Maps

Locations mentioned in probable cause affidavit for the arrest of Richard Allen in the 2017 deaths of two Indiana girls.

www.google.com

Thank you! I didn't realize my link had a paywall so appreciate you posting one that doesn't. I for darn sure didn't pay for a subscription. lol Maybe they only allow X many views before they shut you down?

Thanks again!

 

[5W's]

Yes, I thought about that myself. Like how he could have given someone else his credit card to make the purchase so it ties back to him and his card and never actually leaving his property. I know I haven't ever once had to show my ID when I've used my card, nor has anyone checked my signature on the back of my card in I don't know how many decades. They used to make sure the person using the card was the actual owner but it's been a long, long time since I've seen that. Maybe it's different in IN but I doubt it.

He also could have made the purchase himself but he didn't necessarily have to leave between 2:00-2:30 for Lafayette like the alibi he tried to create for himself asking his cousin to lie for him. All that was outlined in the post I referred back to in my post you're responding to. Did you have a chance to check that out?

Yes I did thanks.

 

[Gemmie]

Or the cash register time was wrong, though surely that would be verified.

I suppose that is possible but highly unlikely IMHO. I vaguely recall once long ago where I had a receipt that was off. I can't remember any details about it other than that. I do remember contacting them to let them know their machines were printing out receipts with the wrong date and/or time. I think that's pretty rare though and don't think it applies here.

RL simply needed a receipt tying him to Lafayette when things were going down on his property, and he has one. Hence him asking his cousin to lie and give him an alibi for being driven to the fish store between 2:00-2:30. Check out an earlier post explaining my thoughts about that:

Found Deceased - IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

I'm not FrostedGlass but the answer is yes. Pg 4 of RL's PCA. https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf 5:21....after the murders. Did he go there for a quick alibi? Imo.

www.websleuths.com

 

[Pnut]

JMO, the way I understand it, in cases like this involving multiple LE agancies, there’s usually on person in charge of the investigation. That person supervises all the investigators. That person is also technically in charge of the crime scene, evidence, etc.

While the parks officer gave a report on RA to the FBI clerk to enter into the database, the lead detective is responsible for that information. The FBI clerk may have been entering data into the database, but it was the lead detective’s job to make sure other detectives were reviewing that data, cleaning it up. Unless the FBI was in charge of this investigation (AFIK they weren’t) the lead detective is responsible.
JMO, if info about RA was entered into the database, someone should have found it.

1,000 times yes. On top of which, I’m very pro police, and its hard to believe that an LEO could take that statement, and doodle-bop around, for 5 years, without ever saying to any other LEO “hey I notice you still haven’t cracked the impenetrable mystery of the man on the bridge, in spite of your various videos, pictures, eye witnesses, 8 bazillion tips, cctv, sketches, texts, instafacetoks, FBI help, and scrupulous obsession with this other dude. Did y’all talk to the man who told me he was there, or have you pretty much decided he’s an ancient Egyptian ninja who fell out of the matrix and subsequently sublimated?” Maybe I’m weird, but that’s what I would say, unless I had been somehow neurologically incapacitated, or moved up to Gatlinburg, which has really terrible cell service. I would really like to know whether he did, and why it didn’t go anywhere, if so. I basically think “misfiled” is police-speak for “no, because we thought we had our guy.”

 

[Pnut]

I suppose that is possible but highly unlikely IMHO. I vaguely recall once long ago where I had a receipt that was off. I can't remember any details about it other than that. I do remember contacting them to let them know their machines were printing out receipts with the wrong date and/or time. I think that's pretty rare though and don't think it applies here.

RL simply needed a receipt tying him to Lafayette when things were going down on his property, and he has one. Hence him asking his cousin to lie and give him an alibi for being driven to the fish store between 2:00-2:30. Check out an earlier post explaining my thoughts about that:

Found Deceased - IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

I'm not FrostedGlass but the answer is yes. Pg 4 of RL's PCA. https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf 5:21....after the murders. Did he go there for a quick alibi? Imo.

www.websleuths.com

I don’t have any reason to think it applies either, and surely they wouldn’t use something in a warrant without verifying such an easy thing. My thoughts don’t always have a great sense of purpose. I really enjoyed reading your post. Very well explained. I particularly loved the fishy part. Hilarious. I think I woke up my mom laughing.

 

[5W's]

That Daily Mail article is something. I know there was a case of a missing girl who was found alive after being kidnapped for weeks in 2018 and they had excellent coverage of it. I followed it daily their photos were great. So I know the DM has a reputation but, some of those things if they are correct may indicate collusion in this case. I tend to believe likewise people flock together and can act in cohesion. Something may have gone wrong that day the girls were killed. It could be that the girls put up a fight and it was just too challenging for the others to paricipate at that point but may have helped in other ways. I'm going to guess taking photos, perhaps or/and helping stage. Maybe one of them catfished and was goint to particiapte but plans didn't accordingly. So one individual was left to tidy up and get whatever they could out of the situation.

 

[Pnut]

JMO, the way I understand it, in cases like this involving multiple LE agancies, there’s usually on person in charge of the investigation. That person supervises all the investigators. That person is also technically in charge of the crime scene, evidence, etc.

While the parks officer gave a report on RA to the FBI clerk to enter into the database, the lead detective is responsible for that information. The FBI clerk may have been entering data into the database, but it was the lead detective’s job to make sure other detectives were reviewing that data, cleaning it up. Unless the FBI was in charge of this investigation (AFIK they weren’t) the lead detective is responsible.
JMO, if info about RA was entered into the database, someone should have found it.

I anxiously await the recitation of the famous words of the first govt employee to preside over a massive boondoggle, “we’re going to look into this and make changes to ensure it never happens again.” — Some guy, South Korea, ca 3,000 BC.

 

[Gemmie]

That Daily Mail article is something. I know there was a case of a missing girl who was found alive after being kidnapped for weeks in 2018 and they had excellent coverage of it. I followed it daily their photos were great. So I know the DM has a reputation but, some of those things if they are correct may indicate collusion in this case. I tend to believe likewise people flock together and can act in cohesion. Something may have gone wrong that day the girls were killed. It could be that the girls put up a fight and it was just too challenging for the others to paricipate at that point but may have helped in other ways. I'm going to guess taking photos, perhaps or/and helping stage. Maybe one of them catfished and was goint to particiapte but plans didn't accordingly. So one individual was left to tidy up and get whatever they could out of the situation.

I agree with your post except one part. They didn't appear to put up a fight according to those at the CS. Although I do think you're on to something when you said something went wrong. But whatever that was, there didn't appear to be a struggle from Abby nor Libby.

Pg 3:

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

 

[katydid23]

Yes agree with this. I think the defence will be big on RAs behaviour after the fact. Told LE he was there on the day, stayed in a local public facing job role, didn’t get rid of gun or car, didn’t move away, didn’t act in a way we would expect a guilty person to act at all…oh and still wearing a navy jacket Around the place.

BTK, Ted Bundy, Green River Killer, and many other killers, all behaved in similar fashion---stayed in local public facing jobs, didn't get rid of guns nor vehicles used, hid in plain sight, etc.

 

[Boxer]

JMO, the way I understand it, in cases like this involving multiple LE agancies, there’s usually on person in charge of the investigation. That person supervises all the investigators. That person is also technically in charge of the crime scene, evidence, etc.

While the parks officer gave a report on RA to the FBI clerk to enter into the database, the lead detective is responsible for that information. The FBI clerk may have been entering data into the database, but it was the lead detective’s job to make sure other detectives were reviewing that data, cleaning it up. Unless the FBI was in charge of this investigation (AFIK they weren’t) the lead detective is responsible.
JMO, if info about RA was entered into the database, someone should have found it.

In the early days of the investigation, it would be the CCSO Sheriff and the COs Dept of Natural Resources Supervisor that should have received the report.
FBI took over tip line 2/23/2017.

 

[mrjitty]

Re exclusives, it's worth remembering that word has increasingly devalued meaning but properly it refers to being first on a story, or actual exclusive sourcing e.g access for a photo shoot / interview that no one else gets (common with celebs).

In this case, failure of any other media source to confirm any aspect of the story days later is a big red flag.

 

[katydid23]

RA was on the first platform of MHB when a witness saw him there at approximately 1:55.
RA was on the MHB platform per his own account.

Witness accounts and RAs account of where his car was parked, clothing he wore, and who he encountered align up to this point.

However this is where accounts diverge, just before 2:00pm.

-The witness who saw him on the platform also saw the girls as she turned around at the MHB and went back down the trail.

-RA said he did not see girls as he left the MHB.
However, he should have passed A&L on the trail just as the witness did.

Minutes later at 2:13 the girls were abducted from the bridge.

The 2:13 images Libby captures are of BG coming up on them, following closely behind Abby - One of the girls says “gun” and BG orders them down the hill.

THIS^^^^ is the witness testimony the jurors need to hear and understand.

He admits to being there and being on the bridge to 'watch fish' from above. He puts himself on the bridge.

A woman testified that she saw him on the first platform, and then she turned around and went the other way, instead of approaching him. And sadly, then our 2 victims passed her, and they were heading in BG's direction.

That is powerful testimony, which puts the girls on a collision course with the suspect, moments before they went missing.

 

[5W's]

I agree with your post except one part. They didn't appear to put up a fight according to those at the CS. Although I do think you're on to something when you said something went wrong. But whatever that was, there didn't appear to be a struggle from Abby nor Libby.

Pg 3:
View attachment 388423

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Poor girls must have been so scared awful. I really wonder if Logan destroyed any devices hid devices or evidence before he suspected LE may question him? IDK but maybe he had have ample opportunity before LE went to him. If Logan was outside of his property close to where the girls were found then I wonder if he could have somehow aided in what happened? Maybe he held the gun while the other stabbed and harmed the kids in other ways also perhaps taking photos. IDK I think some visual data was taken by wohever was at the crime scene while it was happening. IDK it may be a method of keepsake so to speak, sickly. Its just too horrific a crime to not have an underlying theme to it in the mind of the perp/s. MOO.

 

[mrjitty]

THIS^^^^ is the witness testimony the jurors need to hear and understand. He admits to being there and being on the bridge to 'watch fish' from above.

A woman testified that she saw him on then first platform, and then she turned and went the other way, instead of approaching him. And then the 2 victims passed her, and were heading BG's direction.

That is powerful testimony, which puts the girls on a collision course with the suspect, moments before they went missing.

Completely agree Katy

Obviously testimony and exhibits need to come up to spec, but it is hard to see how he is not guilty, based on what we know so far, and this is likely where his own police interview convicts him.

I am fascinated to know if/how he tailored his accounts over the interview to account for selective reveals.

 

[katydid23]

My question, as a juror, would be what is up with the second younger guy sketch.

The prosecution is going to have to try hard to sort that out and come up with a reasonable explanation for that messy situation.

 

[katydid23]

I noticed on there "animal hair samples". Does he have animals? animal hair on the girls?

Yes, he has had family pets. And forensics team was digging in his back yard---the Daily Mail claims they exhumed the family cat and tested the cat hair , comparing it to cat hair from the crime scene. That might be untrue but it would be good if it was an accurate account.

 

[katydid23]

If I was on the jury then the prosectution are going to need either -

1. Physical evidence placing him incontrovertibly at the crime scene (ie more than ejector marks)

2. Overwhelming weight of circumstantial evidence and eyewitness testimony that means it is improbable that it wasn't him

Gonna be a long wait to find out what they've got!

He's already placed himself at the crime scene. He admits to being on that bridge, and there are witnesses putting him there within minutes of the 2 victims being there as well. And then we have the cell phone video....