Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[Boxer]

@Boxer

My apology, I see you were only asking where the date came from. I realize the interview was about what she saw on the 13th, and not that the interview was on the 13th.

Thanks, that is what I meant, when she talked to them about what she saw on 2/13.

 

[MistyWaters]

Thanks! Yes, I knew I read this in the interview with KK. Not saying KK is linked to RA, but there's a major coincidence in this admission, the girls being in contact with Anthony Shots and RA showing up at the Monon High Bridge that day.

JMO, if there is evidence of a connection, the public likely won't know about it until it comes out at trial. They're not going to put that kind of evidence out before then. They're not going to risk a mistrial or something similar.

If there was any type of arrangement between RA and KAK, shouldn’t he be held accountable for his involvement and be charged with Accessary to Murder or something like that? I just can’t see him showing up to testify in court and LE just letting it all go. Imagine the outrage that would cause!

 

[Betty P]

It would also be quite the coincidence that Libby told KAK they were going to the bridge and KAK just happened to know RA well enough, even though the age difference, that he right away knew RA lived close by and was eager to learn of a couple of potential murder victims.

Why this doesn’t make sense to me is -
1) In this scenario why was KAK‘s involvement required? RA could’ve directly hooked up with potential online victims on his own.
2) For what reason would KAK inform RA of the girls plans to go to the bridge?
3) Why would RA require and even risk 3rd party involvement when loitering around the trail area would yield opportunity to spot girls without anyone else knowing?

IIRC, there was speculation that KAK was charging other creeps online to have access to the Anthony Shots profile in order to exchange messages with girls visiting his profile. Also the possibility he was charging for photos that girls would send him. It wasn't just KAK communicating with girls via A Shots. He was part of a group of creeps.

According to the transcripts, Kline had told police other people had access to his online accounts and devices including his father who reportedly was “freaking out” when Kline told him in February 2017 that detectives said Kline was a suspect in the Delphi murders.

https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/ju...thony_shots-child-*advertiser censored*-case/

 

[Megnut]

It would also be quite the coincidence that Libby told KAK they were going to the bridge and KAK just happened to know RA well enough, even though the age difference, that he right away knew RA lived close by and was eager to learn of a couple of potential murder victims.

Why this doesn’t make sense to me is -
1) In this scenario why was KAK‘s involvement required? RA could’ve directly hooked up with potential online victims on his own.
2) For what reason would KAK inform RA of the girls plans to go to the bridge?
3) Why would RA require and even risk 3rd party involvement when loitering around the trail area would yield opportunity to spot girls without anyone else knowing?

I have a theory....

That it didn't go according to plan.

IMO he didn't work alone. And it was his job to corral the girls.... IF this was a planned abduction, and I think there's a possibility it was, his initial role may have been nasty but not encumbered -- walk the trail, get behind them, threaten them and march them into a secondary vehicle. No mud, no blood. Accomplice drives them away. He returns to his vehicle and drives home.

Just think. If Libby hadn't brought along a phone, hadn't hit record, and the girls had been whisked away without incident into a waiting vehicle, all that might've remained might've been a sneaker.

I think one or more persons may have conspired to commit what he/they worked out to be a perfect plan/perfect crime.

Frightening what walks among us.

JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

The problem is that he already claimed back in 2017 that he hadn't seen the girls, so that is inconsistent with him being the man in L's video.

THIS.
Hoping they have - from video - what they need to make a strong case that RA is person on video.

If so, add RA intentionally misleading investigation (volunteering false info as to who he saw on the trail).

IMO, I'm not confident as to gait comparisons - b/c one wouldn't use their "normal gait" or even posture when walking rail bridge to negotiate those rail tracks.

MOO

 

[Betty P]

I have a theory....

That it didn't go according to plan.

IMO he didn't work alone. And it was his job to corral the girls.... IF this was a planned abduction, and I think there's a possibility it was, his initial role may have been nasty but not encumbered -- walk the trail, get behind them, threaten them and march them into a secondary vehicle. No mud, no blood. Accomplice drives them away. He returns to his vehicle and drives home.

Just think. If Libby hadn't brought along a phone, hadn't hit record, and the girls had been whisked away without incident into a waiting vehicle, all that might've remained might've been a sneaker.

I think one or more persons may have conspired to commit what he/they worked out to be a perfect plan/perfect crime.

Frightening what walks among us.

JMO

JMO, if there were others involved in some scheme that day, it would be a tall order for LE to gather all the evidence and take it to trial(s). I think they decided to focus on RA because they have him and his car on video at various locations, at the relevant times. They have his voice on Libby's video, the jacket and ballistics from his gun and cartridge at the crime scene. Others involved will be dealt with separately.

 

[Betty P]

I have a theory....

That it didn't go according to plan.

IMO he didn't work alone. And it was his job to corral the girls.... IF this was a planned abduction, and I think there's a possibility it was, his initial role may have been nasty but not encumbered -- walk the trail, get behind them, threaten them and march them into a secondary vehicle. No mud, no blood. Accomplice drives them away. He returns to his vehicle and drives home.

Just think. If Libby hadn't brought along a phone, hadn't hit record, and the girls had been whisked away without incident into a waiting vehicle, all that might've remained might've been a sneaker.

I think one or more persons may have conspired to commit what he/they worked out to be a perfect plan/perfect crime.

Frightening what walks among us.

JMO

JMO, if there were others involved in some scheme that day, it would be a tall order for LE to gather all the evidence and take it to trial(s). I think they decided to focus on RA because they have him and his car on video at various locations, at the relevant times. They have his voice on Libby's video, the jacket and ballistics from his gun and cartridge at the crime scene. Others involved will be dealt with separately.

All just JMO, spitballing.

 

[Emma Peel]

The following is just a weird thing that has become a bit of a headscratcher to me ...
It's just me, mulling my own impressions ... so MOO.

Also, thanks for letting me get it off my chest. I'm guessing it's been asked or mulled-about in these threads before. Maybe it's been beat to death and all figured out. LOL. So ...

The "Guys" audio addition sticks in my craw - a headscratcher.
a) Wondering why (LE) withhold that tidbit for 5-years in?
b) Who approaches 2 strange girls on a hike (that they've never met prior) and calls them "guys"? Much less, "Guys, go this way."
c) The use of "Guys, down the hill" is a directional instruction. One would think it's not a first sentence upon a first meeting.
d) Is it interesting that the girls made a choice to film this random dude walking towards them (Why was he interesting enough to film? Why was he interesting enough to wait and watch as he negotiated the tracks slowly? If he was weird or threatening, would they stand there and film? Had they met BG guy at some point beforehand?)
e) The voice recording has been disembodied from the BG walking video. We actually don't know when "Guys down the hill" was uttered during audio/video capture.
d) Add to this that we're told one of the girls can be heard later in same video to say "Gun", along additional walking sounds.

The whole line "Guys, down the hill" seems an odd first sentence to speak to 2 young girls who are strangers. Would you say "Guys, down the hill" to 2 young girls, strangers to you, that you just came upon? Or would you say it to kids who expected you, and waited for your direction?

Probably overthinking this. Still, it BUGs me.

Again ... 5 years of keeping "Guys" from the public. Maybe someday we'll understand why. Clearly quite a bit we don't yet understand.

 

[Betty P]

DBM

 

[Emma Peel]

oops - wrong thread, DBM.

 

[sandy_80]

Okay, so no statement by LE or admission by KK that he spoke to L on the morning of the murders.

even the retried personal that was asked about his openion of this ..said it looked like a desperate hail mary
its pretty clear.. they are pressuring him without anything solid.. if they had anything they would show it to him instead of these stupid give and take

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

threaten them and march them into a secondary vehicle. No mud, no blood.

"Down the hill" leads to Deer Creek, there is no option of no mud. There is nowhere to march them to a vehicle that doesn't involve crossing the creek, a steep hike and a substantial risk of being seen once they exited the woods. The nearest place to park a car would be the cemetery.

RA didn't even risk parking his car near the cemetery, he had to walk and hike in and out.

Moo, but a look at the maps makes it clear that he waited for a victim(s) to be in the isolated area of the bridge where they couldn't go around him to go back. He then took them to a secluded area to do what he had been thinking about for some time, out of sight and earshot of witnesses. MOO

If KK had never been heard of, I doubt that many people would think a 2nd person or a complicated kidnap/murder plan was involved. Nothing RA did required an accomplice. MOO

Redirect Notice

 

[stattlich1]

Down that first hill is the private drive, where a vehicle could easily have been waiting, anywhere along that driveway, not necessarily in sight of the bridge.

On a different note, KAK could be working with investigators as part of a plea deal.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

even the retried personal that was asked about his openion of this ..said it looked like a desperate hail mary
its pretty clear.. they are pressuring him without anything solid.. if they had anything they would show it to him instead of these stupid give and take

MOO Yes. I don't blame them, so little to go on, any kind of information of him having told someone else about L, is what they hoped could lead them to a suspect. They practically told him they knew he wasn't the killer.
Highly unusual and unbelievably naive that a defendant would subject themself to interrogation without an attorney after already being in custody for multiple felonies.

 

[TL4S]

"Down the hill" leads to Deer Creek, there is no option of no mud. There is nowhere to march them to a vehicle that doesn't involve crossing the creek, a steep hike and a substantial risk of being seen once they exited the woods. The nearest place to park a car would be the cemetery.

RA didn't even risk parking his car near the cemetery, he had to walk and hike in and out.

Moo, but a look at the maps makes it clear that he waited for a victim(s) to be in the isolated area of the bridge where they couldn't go around him to go back. He then took them to a secluded area to do what he had been thinking about for some time, out of sight and earshot of witnesses. MOO

If KK had never been heard of, I doubt that many people would think a 2nd person or a complicated kidnap/murder plan was involved. Nothing RA did required an accomplice. MOO

View attachment 408448

Redirect Notice

It's difficult to see on the map, but there is a private drive below the south end of the bridge. Many folks have speculated that BG might have been parked on that private drive and could have planned to lead the girls to his vehicle there. No creek crossing required. From the south end of the bridge, one would only have to go down a hill to that road. From the road, however, one has to go down another hill into the woods below that leads to the creek.

While an abduction to a vehicle is quite plausible, I personally believe that the killer did not intend that. In fact, I think the crime was most likely just going to happen wherever they could get out of view. IMO. I think the creek crossing was a secondary consequence of another event (like L's dad looking for them), but that's just my best guess. The trail system is not really conducive to abduction to a vehicle unless they were on that private drive, and that's reliant then on the victims crossing the bridge. That's kind of why it makes more sense to me that whether planned or opportunistic, the woods were the ultimate destination. JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

Down that first hill is the private drive, where a vehicle could easily have been waiting, anywhere along that driveway, not necessarily in sight of the bridge.

On a different note, KAK could be working with investigators as part of a plea deal.

Do you know of an instance where a plea deal is arranged without charges first being laid? I’ve never heard of that nor can I imagine why someone would voluntarily implicate themselves without knowing what potential conviction might be hanging over their head. A plea deal is not an agreement for someone to rat on another and therefore entirely avoid all personal ramifications for their involvement in the crime.

Plea bargain - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A plea bargain (also plea agreement or plea deal) is an agreement in criminal law proceedings, whereby the prosecutor provides a concession to the defendant in exchange for a plea of guilt or nolo contendere.This may mean that the defendant will plead guilty to a less serious charge, or to one of the several charges, in return for the dismissal of other charges; or it may mean that the defendant will plead guilty to the original criminal charge in return for a more lenient sentence.[1]

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Down that first hill is the private drive, where a vehicle could easily have been waiting, anywhere along that driveway, not necessarily in sight of the bridge.

On a different note, KAK could be working with investigators as part of a plea deal.

Except they weren't loaded into a vehicle there, they went all the way down the hill and across the creek. I would not think that if they ran and were murdered, that RA would not then hike back out to his car, walk along a public roadway with traffic, to be seen by a witness, muddy and bloody when a car was right there to take him away from the scene.

 

[JosieMae]

Do we think BG saw Libby filming him?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Except they weren't loaded into a vehicle there, they went all the way down the hill and across the creek. I would not think that if they ran and were murdered, that RA would not then hike back out to his car, walk along a public roadway with traffic, to be seen by a witness, muddy and bloody when a car was right there to take him away from the scene.

We've come to accept "down the hill and across the creek" but I don't remember LE ever confirming it. IIRC, the closest to a confirmation was when Riley(?) was asked if it would have been difficult to go that route and he answered that it would have been difficult. However, that wasn't saying that yes, they did go that route. As a matter of fact, LE said that the re-enactments were not accurate.

 

[stattlich1]

Except they weren't loaded into a vehicle there, they went all the way down the hill and across the creek. I would not think that if they ran and were murdered, that RA would not then hike back out to his car, walk along a public roadway with traffic, to be seen by a witness, muddy and bloody when a car was right there to take him away from the scene.

You said there was no where to march them to a vehicle that doesn't involve crossing the creek. I was pointing out that comment was erroneous. Indeed, the facts as to what occurred after the 'down the hill' comment have never been disclosed, including if they crossed the creek or not.