IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

[arielilane]

I’d take the video of BG out of the equation because RA appears to look so different now. Did he starve himself for the purpose of misleading a future jury? Many people relate to visuals, as I am one of those people; however, I would never convict someone on photo alone! There is more than the photo which was brilliant of Libby to have taken. The forensics I believe are going to be strong evidence in this case, or he would never have been arrested.

Also, I think about the time RA did not charge Libby’s grandmother for processed photos. Besides, it sounds like RA has been confessing about the crime since day one. A confessed monster. Did he want to be caught and glad he finally got caught and is relieved?

I have always been curious if the jacket and pants shown in the photo were found in RA's home and, if so, that is extremely damning evidence... what may have been found on the items?

If the case goes to trial, it will be the totality of the circumstances that have yet been shown that will seal his fate.

All speculation, moo

 

[Megnut]

If he is on suicide watch 24/7, starving himself might be his only avenue.

Jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

mmmm. Who did he call and confess to? His wife? His daughter? A pool playing buddy? A coworker? Think about it. If you're in jail on murder charges, what 5 people would you call and confess to? Or was it one (or more) people he confessed to numerous times?

Richard Allen has made "admissions of guilt" to more than one person about his involvement in the deaths of Liberty German and Abigail Williams, according to Carroll County Prosecutor Nicolas McCleland.

"He made multiple confessions to multiple people," McCleland said during Allen's hearing on Thursday.

Richard Allen made 'admissions of guilt' to multiple people, according to Carroll Co. prosecutor

Richard Allen is back in court Thursday for a hearing in the Delphi Murders case against him. Allen is charged with murder in the February 2017 deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wrtv.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

@Niner In all your note taking, did you catch a mention of a Franks hearing? One of the reporters covering the hearing posted a definition for a Franks hearing but I can't find that post.

 

[Niner]

@Niner In all your note taking, did you catch a mention of a Franks hearing? One of the reporters covering the hearing posted a definition for a Franks hearing but I can't find that post.

ah - nope - never saw that mentioned in any of the tweets that I read - and that was all of them. Maybe @arielilane remembers - unless she doesn't read the tweets as she posts them - or was that @Cindizzi - think I am starting to confuse 2 cases on people posting tweets! LOL!

Guess you might have to wait until the court site is updated.

 

[Niner]

Anyone know who the Sheriff of Cass County is?

 

[MistyWaters]

Anyone know who the Sheriff of Cass County is?

According to this, Cass County Sheriff Ed Schroeder testified at the hearing.

Testimony: Richard Allen made incriminating statements in jail

UPDATE: The judge set a trial date for Richard Allen, who is accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi.

www.courttv.com

“Cass County Sheriff Ed Shroder told the judge that he believes his facility could handle housing Allen.

“I don’t want him, but we could handle him,” Schroder said on the stand.

Shroder explained that Cass County would have resources available to Allen, including mental health care, and said they had recently added 150 beds to their jail facility.

He says the defense would be able to meet with Allen through plexiglass and his family could speak with him through video chat if he was housed at their jail….”

 

[Niner]

According to this, Cass County Sheriff Ed Schroeder testified at the hearing.

Testimony: Richard Allen made incriminating statements in jail

UPDATE: The judge set a trial date for Richard Allen, who is accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi.

www.courttv.com

“Cass County Sheriff Ed Shroder told the judge that he believes his facility could handle housing Allen.

“I don’t want him, but we could handle him,” Schroder said on the stand.

Shroder explained that Cass County would have resources available to Allen, including mental health care, and said they had recently added 150 beds to their jail facility.

He says the defense would be able to meet with Allen through plexiglass and his family could speak with him through video chat if he was housed at their jail….”

Thank Misty! I do remember reading Cass County Sheriff - but never saw his name mentioned.

 

[Niner]

According to this, Cass County Sheriff Ed Schroeder testified at the hearing.

Testimony: Richard Allen made incriminating statements in jail

UPDATE: The judge set a trial date for Richard Allen, who is accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi.

www.courttv.com

“Cass County Sheriff Ed Shroder told the judge that he believes his facility could handle housing Allen.

“I don’t want him, but we could handle him,” Schroder said on the stand.

Shroder explained that Cass County would have resources available to Allen, including mental health care, and said they had recently added 150 beds to their jail facility.

He says the defense would be able to meet with Allen through plexiglass and his family could speak with him through video chat if he was housed at their jail….”

found this for witnesses today in the article.

During the first half of the hearing on Thursday, the defense called four witnesses to the stand to give their testimony of Allen’s current conditions and the possibility of moving him to Cass County: Chief Deputy Tobe Leazenby with the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office, Max Baker, an intern for attorney Bradley Rozzi’s office, Gary Lewis from Westville Correctional Facility and Cass County Sheriff Ed Shroder.

The prosecution called two witnesses, Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett and John Galipeau during the second half of Thursday’s hearing.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The Twitter reports were surely welcomed by all of us yesterday but they did not touch all the things going on in the hearing.
The Murder Sheet episode is a little long but gives a very different feel to the proceeding. The talk about each witness, their testimony, the questions, the cross examination, what each sides’ lawyers said, and what the judge said.
It is worth a listen.
They said NMc was excellent yesterday. He consistently hammered the fact that RA had made admissions of guilt to multiple people. The testimony destroyed the defense’s claim of mistreatment to the point at the end where Judge Gull told the defense their motion seemed to be more about the lawyers convenience than RA’s treatment.

The Delphi Murders: Possible Confessions, Due Process, and Public Access to Court Filings

On June 15, 2023, major news about the Delphi murders broke. In a due process hearing, defense and prosecution each confirmed that Richard Allen made incriminating statements about the case. Judge Fran Gull also indicated that she will rule in favor of The Murder Sheet's motion to provide more...

art19.com

 

[NextSprint]

JMO (I do not know if RA is guilty but I do strongly believe in due process):

The 'mastermind' criminal who pulled off a brazen, technically complex crime, and got away with it for years, is not going to be the same person who doesn't realise that "confessing" over the phone while a trial is pending, is a bad move.

You can't have it both ways. Mastermind, or not.

There's lots of academic material about how conditions, and the individual's own psychological make-up can lead to false confessions. The conditions I believe RA is being held in may well have led to this "running the mouth".

False Confessions: Causes, Consequences, and Implications

In the past two decades, hundreds of convicted prisoners have been exonerated by DNA and non-DNA evidence, revealing that police-induced false confessions are a leading cause of wrongful conviction of the innocent. In this article, empirical research on the causes and correlates of false...

jaapl.org

 

[arielilane]

@Niner In all your note taking, did you catch a mention of a Franks hearing? One of the reporters covering the hearing posted a definition for a Franks hearing but I can't find that post.

ah - nope - never saw that mentioned in any of the tweets that I read - and that was all of them. Maybe @arielilane remembers - unless she doesn't read the tweets as she posts them - or was that @Cindizzi - think I am starting to confuse 2 cases on people posting tweets! LOL!

Guess you might have to wait until the court site is updated.

I don't recall Franks hearing being mentioned in any tweets. I do read them as I am posting... most of the time.
Went through yesterday's tweets to no avail.

However, a comment by Hoosier Public Defender (June 14) stating that the court's ruling on a motion in limine is not final.



Edited to include date of tweet.

 

[AC4RD]

I have a big problem with the statement " People don't typically admit to crimes they don't commit".

I guess we've forgotten Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. Our own prison system is filled with people who make false confessions all the time for one reason or another. ...
And some more reading on the topic: False Confessions: Causes, Consequences, and Implications

I want justice for Abby and Libby as much as the next person! I really do! I'm just seeing things here that are raising BIG RED FLAGS!

Just last night I was reading about John Curtis (I think that's the name), who was involved in the Lindbergh child's murder, apparently extorting money pretending to be a go-between from the supposed kidnappers. The cops kept Curtis handcuffed in a basement for 24 hours, shouting and whispering to him. He finally signed a confession when the cops told him (as I recall from last night's reading, it was a minor point) that they just needed to clear it up, he could sign and the confession would never be made public and he could go home and they'd forget the whole thing. He signed, and discovered that he'd been arrested and jailed, or something along those lines. Don't recall specifics.

But it's one more in what we ALL know, even if police don't like to admit it, that lying and pressuring and torturing and beating all get used to extract confessions, and once cops have a signed confession, their job is done (apologies to cops but it's true) and the case is now "cleared" on their end. So a confession is a win for police, no matter HOW they get it.

And I think the principle is well known: anybody will confess to anything under torture. (Why confess to being a witch, knowing the Salem judge is going to hang you for it? Why admit to the Gestapo that you're a spy, etc?)

I think being in a cell the size of a cheap storage locker, under 24 hour gaze, eating terrible food, unable to go for a walk, treated like filth by the guards and other inmates, for SIX MONTHS, might make anybody start confessing to things. I spent most of a year in a hospital (you do NOT want to know) and if they hadn't kept telling me I'd be going home "any week now," over and over, I'd certainly have been suicidal. During that time, I'd have gladly confessed to murdering Bobby Franks if it could have given me one peaceful afternoon, pain-free, in my back yard. :-/ (edited to boldface that because it's a big point)

And @Ravenmoon my friend, I didn't say RA was being mistreated. But I think six months in a jail cell being watched 24/7 is pretty horrible, not that I have a solution for it. But I *do* think we have a MORAL OBLIGATION to treat prisoners as well as we reasonably can, especially ones whose guilt has not yet been adjudicated. Mistreating prisoners just because you dislike them as a class is abhorrent, and I'll add "MHO" to that but I'd say it's a matter of simple human morality. --ken

 

[Ravenmoon]

The Delphi Murders: Possible Confessions, Due Process, and Public Access to Court Filings

As per podcast:

The photo of RA that sent shockwaves through the people following the Delphi case was basically quite misleading.

RA had JUST finished working out for 45 minutes. THAT shirt is his "workout" shirt BY choice. He ONLY wears that one for exercise.

He had the option to change it before sitting with his attorneys. He chose not to.

IMO that speaks volumes about why that photo was taken

They wanted the public to feel sympathy for RA


JMO

 

[minazoe]

I do feel sympathy for him because he is a lost, callow and psychopathic violent sexual predator and murderer of children.
Thank god he is behind bars...did he admit to any other murders ? I wonder why then wouldn't he admit to murdering say
Lyric and Elizabeth, too? because I have no doubt he has done this before. I'm sure we will find out a great deal about him...I bet he has been peeping and sneaking around doing weird stuff since high school..I bet he was bullied in school for being a little twerp..So I feel sympathy for him and hope they execute him and put him out of his misery...the poor guy...

I usually hate the DP....but in this case? pfft...mOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Just last night I was reading about John Curtis (I think that's the name), who was involved in the Lindbergh child's murder, apparently extorting money pretending to be a go-between from the supposed kidnappers. The cops kept Curtis handcuffed in a basement for 24 hours, shouting and whispering to him. He finally signed a confession when the cops told him (as I recall from last night's reading, it was a minor point) that they just needed to clear it up, he could sign and the confession would never be made public and he could go home and they'd forget the whole thing. He signed, and discovered that he'd been arrested and jailed, or something along those lines. Don't recall specifics.

But it's one more in what we ALL know, even if police don't like to admit it, that lying and pressuring and torturing and beating all get used to extract confessions, and once cops have a signed confession, their job is done (apologies to cops but it's true) and the case is now "cleared" on their end. So a confession is a win for police, no matter HOW they get it.

And I think the principle is well known: anybody will confess to anything under torture. (Why confess to being a witch, knowing the Salem judge is going to hang you for it?)

I think being in a cell the size of a cheap storage locker, under 24 hour gaze, eating terrible food, unable to go for a walk, treated like filth by the guards and other inmates, for SIX MONTHS, might make anybody start confessing to things. I spent most of a year in a hospital (you do NOT want to know) and if they hadn't kept telling me I'd be going home "any week now," over and over, I'd certainly have been suicidal. During that time, I'd have gladly confessed to murdering Bobby Franks if it could have given me one peaceful afternoon, pain-free, in my back yard. :-/

And @Ravenmoon my friend, I didn't say RA was being mistreated. But I think six months in a jail cell being watched 24/7 is pretty horrible, not that I have a solution for it. But I *do* think we have a MORAL OBLIGATION to treat prisoners as well as we reasonably can, especially ones whose guilt has not yet been adjudicated. Mistreating prisoners just because you dislike them as a class is abhorrent, and I'll add "MHO" to that but I'd say it's a matter of simple human morality. --ken

Thank you for this thoughtful reply.

I would ask that if you have time please listen to the latest Murder sheet podcast. I understand that not everyone cares for them, but I believe that this podcast in particular will answer many questions about the treatment RA is receiving.

One small example is that during a "fit" of some sort by RA, he threw and broke his tablet. Typically, the incarcerated would need to pay 250 to replace it. RA did not have to pay, instead he had to agree to work on improving his mental health by utilizing the tablet for that purpose, as well as for other things.

I don't disagree with the fact that his housing situation is strange. But it turns out that the cell he is in is nowhere near the size of a dog kennel, he has a regular bed bolted to the ground, he has access to commissary, he is able to exercise outside 5 times a week, etc.
One of the concerns about moving him to Cass county is that he will no longer have access to 24/7 mental health treatment. The other is because he is much more vulnerable to physical attack.

Thank you for your perspective. It is always appreciated greatly.

As always JMO

 

[photographer4]

would like to know to whom he confessed

I'd like to know the entire story - who he confessed to, when, under what circumstances and exactly what he said! I'd like to point out here that there has been at least one case where a person confessed to a crime they absolutely did not commit. The admission was from a 14 year old boy and was a very interesting case. You can learn about it here:

How did a teen sleepover turn into a murder investigation?

Michael Politte, a 14-year-old boy, was arrested and later convicted of killing his mom. More than two decades later, the case has been reopened, and a key witness breaks his silence to "48 Hours."

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Ravenmoon]

I'd like to know the entire story - who he confessed to, when, under what circumstances and exactly what he said! I'd like to point out here that there has been at least one case where a person confessed to a crime they absolutely did not commit. The admission was from a 14 year old boy and was a very interesting case. You can learn about it here:

How did a teen sleepover turn into a murder investigation?

Michael Politte, a 14-year-old boy, was arrested and later convicted of killing his mom. More than two decades later, the case has been reopened, and a key witness breaks his silence to "48 Hours."

www.cbsnews.com

The only thing that we know is that RA confessed several times to several people while on his tablet.

One of the best bits of information that came through yesterday's hearing was that there is zero expectation for privacy while making those calls from his tablet. Zero.

The only time one can expect that privacy is between attorney and client.

I am certain this information will be used at trial. I am equally certain that the defense will do their best to explain away why those confessions were made. But let's be clear - if these confessions were made to friends and family, they were not coerced, they were not forced.

IMO, RA is cooked. And he is the one that preheated the oven.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

Hmm.. we all know how reliable jailhouse snitches are— but I guess this can’t be the person RA allegedly confessed to, since it was on a recorded line?

Could it be though if he used his tablet to call another inmate?

 

[minazoe]

"IMO, RA is cooked. And he is the one that preheated the oven."

LOLZ. mOO