IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #164

[margarita25]

I have also thought there was a waiting car but the plan didn't work out, maybe because the girls ran across the creek? I can't understand RA not flipping on a partner, though. jmo

This reminds me, what was up with KAK possibly saying something about the red jeep waiting? And the girls didn’t show up or something? Maybe I’m imagining this. Sorry for brain farts in advance.

I know KAK hasn’t been charged with anything in connection to the murders of Abby and Libby, and he is known to be a huge liar according to MS podcast, but wondering what was up with that again, I forgot the details. Kind of a weird thing to lie about.

Anyone remember the details on that? Tia.

—-

Eta: I think I also possibly recall early on a red jeep seen in the trails parking lot.

 

[TL4S]

This reminds me, what was up with KAK possibly saying something about the red jeep waiting? And the girls didn’t show up or something? Maybe I’m imagining this. Sorry for brain farts in advance.

I know KAK hasn’t been charged with anything in connection to the murders of Abby and Libby, and he is known to be a huge liar according to MS podcast, but wondering what was up with that again, I forgot the details. Kind of a weird thing to lie about.

Anyone remember the details on that? Tia.

According to MS, KAK told LE he was waiting in a parked red jeep during the murders. MS added the caveat that he is a liar, but that's just what their source told them KAK had told LE, I think around the time the ISP took custody of him during the Wabash River search. No more has ever been said about it. JMO.

 

[margarita25]

According to MS, KAK told LE he was waiting in a parked red jeep during the murders. MS added the caveat that he is a liar, but that's just what their source told them KAK had told LE, I think around the time the ISP took custody of him during the Wabash River search. No more has ever been said about it. JMO.

Thanks TL4S.

See my eta, was there also a red jeep reported early on as seen parked in the parking lot of the trails? Maybe I’m imagining that too. I thought maybe DG had said that, maybe not, moo, jmo.

 

[minazoe]

That's the thing. With these now unsealed documents, all we really see is that RA gave enough in his own statement to the CO to warrant another interview with LE and a search of his home. What they collected from the home was more or less related to what he already admitted to having on him (blue jacket, head covering, jeans, boots, and his phone), weapons he admitted to owning, and swabs from the vehicle he admitted to driving there that day.

The witnesses were all shown a photo of the man on the bridge (not photos of RA), and they all agreed this was who they saw. There was really nothing earth-shattering, imo. The RL affidavit was more interesting to me, because it gave some possible insight about the CS: animal hair, fiber evidence, digital data, taking trophies, blood loss on scene, moving and staging, etc.

If we apply what was in the RL affidavit to RA, it makes me wonder if there is more to it than what we see strictly in the RA documents. I don't mean that RL was involved (I don't think he was), but just the information we could gather from the affidavit had to be included for a reason, so how might it apply now, to RA?

And I'll admit, I'm still curious if KAK knew anything about the murders, either before or after the fact... It bothers me endlessly that the names were not redacted in these released documents. When MS first put out the 2020 KAK interview, there was a last name (related to the ski mask incident), that they missed redacting, but quickly fixed. That last name is the same as one of the last names in the RA arrest affidavit (not a witness). KAK was wading around in the same pond as some of these girls in Delphi, of that I have no doubt. Probably unrelated, but one of the juvenile witnesses was interviewed, according to the SW PCA, in 2020. Makes me wonder if they went back to her for a reason related to KAK's arrest. Just random questions.

I agree with you. there are endless bizarre possible connections to others...mOO

 

[margarita25]

According to MS, KAK told LE he was waiting in a parked red jeep during the murders. MS added the caveat that he is a liar, but that's just what their source told them KAK had told LE, I think around the time the ISP took custody of him during the Wabash River search. No more has ever been said about it. JMO.

This is such a strange thing to lie about. Why would one supposedly say this?

Strange coincidence if true, and no connection to RA.

 

[FrostedGlass]

New Murder Sheet podcast with Hoosier Public Defender

The Delphi Murders: A Talk with the Hoosier Public Defender about the Delphi Documents

It seems as if everyone in the online Delphi community has something to say about the Richard Allen case documents that we got released last week. We decided to check in with Shay Hughes-- the Hoosier Public Defender-- to hear what he had to say. Shay, of course, helped us behind the scenes with...

art19.com

 

[TL4S]

This is such a strange thing to lie about. Why would one supposedly say this?

Strange coincidence if true, and no connection to RA.

I don't recall hearing if a red jeep was spotted near the trails that day, but what MS did point out was that KAK's dad owned a red jeep. So was KAK again trying to pin the murders on his dad? IDK.

KAK has adamantly denied any involvement with the murders, to LE, BMcD, and MS ("100 percent," as he likes to say). NMcL told the press at the PC that the Ks were part of the investigation, LE has supposedly taken DNA from KAK, hid dad (twice), and their dog, an LE source told reporter Demi Johnson from WISH-TV that they believe KAK was not the murderer, but knew who was, and MSM supported MS's source info about the Wabash search being related to Delphi. I have no idea why KAK would lie to get himself involved further with the murder case than his catfishing already made him. I don't see the benefit when he was already told he wasn't going to get a plea deal. I also don't see why LE would spend 5 weeks on a river search based on unsupported claims by a known liar. This is why I still wonder if he knows something, even if not directly involved with the murders. JMO.

 

[margarita25]

BBM:

I don't recall hearing if a red jeep was spotted near the trails that day, but what MS did point out was that KAK's dad owned a red jeep. So was KAK again trying to pin the murders on his dad? IDK.

KAK has adamantly denied any involvement with the murders, to LE, BMcD, and MS ("100 percent," as he likes to say). NMcL told the press at the PC that the Ks were part of the investigation, LE has supposedly taken DNA from KAK, hid dad (twice), and their dog, an LE source told reporter Demi Johnson from WISH-TV that they believe KAK was not the murderer, but knew who was, and MSM supported MS's source info about the Wabash search being related to Delphi. I have no idea why KAK would lie to get himself involved further with the murder case than his catfishing already made him. I don't see the benefit when he was already told he wasn't going to get a plea deal. I also don't see why LE would spend 5 weeks on a river search based on unsupported claims by a known liar. This is why I still wonder if he knows something, even if not directly involved with the murders. JMO.

Right. Strange.

—-

Thinking out loud, we know CSAM can be exchanged nationally and internationally via electronic sources.

I’ve never contemplated how this could be shared on a local level. This is a strange thought, but I wonder if “locals” get together in person, kind of like meet ups or book clubs or knitting groups. Maybe they do, especially if there is a child victim physically present at a gathering.

Just thinking more about KAK. Again, LE has not tied him or TK to Abby’s & Libby’s murders..it’s just so weird he said he was going to meet up with them that day iirc, (which iirc he later denied, but iirc LE may have confirmed this electronically via the Anthony Shots account), and also this red jeep business.

Again, such a strange thing to lie about. If he said this, then there must have been other context and details given when questioned about this by police, such as how long did you wait, was TK or whoever else bloody, etc., etc.

—-

Also, just noting, there are no documents that we know about confirming a connection between RA and CSAM, right? If he’s the perp, then maybe there is no CSAM, but I would doubt this if the crime was sexually motivated, which IMO it appears to be due to lack of clothing. Imo, the perps involved in sexually motivated crimes of children usually have CSAM on their devices.

 

[margarita25]

I don't recall hearing if a red jeep was spotted near the trails that day, but what MS did point out was that KAK's dad owned a red jeep. So was KAK again trying to pin the murders on his dad? IDK.

KAK has adamantly denied any involvement with the murders, to LE, BMcD, and MS ("100 percent," as he likes to say). NMcL told the press at the PC that the Ks were part of the investigation, LE has supposedly taken DNA from KAK, hid dad (twice), and their dog, an LE source told reporter Demi Johnson from WISH-TV that they believe KAK was not the murderer, but knew who was, and MSM supported MS's source info about the Wabash search being related to Delphi. I have no idea why KAK would lie to get himself involved further with the murder case than his catfishing already made him. I don't see the benefit when he was already told he wasn't going to get a plea deal. I also don't see why LE would spend 5 weeks on a river search based on unsupported claims by a known liar. This is why I still wonder if he knows something, even if not directly involved with the murders. JMO.

Also, as you said, maybe he was trying to pin the murders on his Dad. Iirc from the MS podcasts, KAK said he has not talked to his dad in a while. If he’s angry and there was a falling out, perhaps this is the case, revenge, or to take the heat off him, but even that is strange, as it opens him up to possibly being charged with Accessory, either before, during, or after the fact. Idk. It’s weird.

As far as the possibility of local perv CSAM meet ups, I would think the people want to remain anonymous, but maybe trust is built after extended communication, and meeting up in person is a next level in these sort of activities, But LE I would think would have found these communications if we was communicating with RA about CSAM and meetups.

Do we know if LE ever recovered the content from his phone he supposedly left on the microwave or whatever that he deleted?

 

[TL4S]

Also, just noting, there are no documents that we know about confirming a connection between RA and CSAM, right? If he’s the perp, then maybe there is no CSAM, but I would doubt this if the crime was sexually motivated, which IMO it appears to be due to lack of clothing. Imo, the perps involved in sexually motivated crimes of children usually have CSAM on their devices.

RSBM. I've not seen anything to connect RA and KAK. Personally, I don't think there is anything to link them in person or otherwise, unless there is an online connection. I don't happen to believe there is a CSAM ring or anything like that, however, I do think it's possible KAK and RA could have played in the same online sandbox, if you know what I mean, even if KAK didn't know it at the time. There are a lot of parallels between KAK and the Delphi murders, which might only be coincidences, but with the gag order, we simply don't know.

I think RA acted alone that day, but that doesn't mean there wasn't something online that KAK (or someone else) wasn't privy to, which somehow tied back to the murders, be it the girls posting they were going, photos, what have you. That would be total speculation on my part. I just haven't entirely shut the door on NMcL saying others were involved, or some of the other things that have been said that I listed before. RA could have been a lone wolf coming unhinged that day, with no online or other connection to anyone. I'm not closed off to that option, either, but for sake of the families, witnesses, and community, I hope they are told if that is the case, because otherwise they'll always wonder if others are out there. JMO.

ETA: In regards to your next post, about KAK's phone on the microwave, the affidavit pretty much says a lot of the data was lost in the deletion process.

 

[Megnut]

BBM:




Right. Strange.

—-

Thinking out loud, we know CSAM can be exchanged nationally and internationally via electronic sources.

I’ve never contemplated how this could be shared on a local level. This is a strange thought, but I wonder if “locals” get together in person, kind of like meet ups or book clubs or knitting groups. Maybe they do, especially if there is a child victim physically present at a gathering.

Just thinking more about KAK. Again, LE has not tied him or TK to Abby’s & Libby’s murders..it’s just so weird he said he was going to meet up with them that day iirc, (which iirc he later denied, but iirc LE may have confirmed this electronically via the Anthony Shots account), and also this red jeep business.

Again, such a strange thing to lie about. If he said this, then there must have been other context and details given when questioned about this by police, such as how long did you wait, was TK or whoever else bloody, etc., etc.

—-

Also, just noting, there are no documents that we know about confirming a connection between RA and CSAM, right? If he’s the perp, then maybe there is no CSAM, but I would doubt this if the crime was sexually motivated, which IMO it appears to be due to lack of clothing. Imo, the perps involved in sexually motivated crimes of children usually have CSAM on their devices.

Or.... KAK was planning to meet up with Libby, but his plans were intercepted by an opportunist.

Jmo

 

[margarita25]

Or.... KAK was planning to meet up with Libby, but his plans were intercepted by an opportunist.

Jmo

This seems to be the way this case is possibly playing out. We know there are several predators lurking at any given time. This is reinforced on the show “Undercover Underage”, where fake teen accounts on SM are regularly contacted by pervs.

I know sometimes people and LE say there is no such thing as coincidences, but I don’t believe this fully because I have seen some crazy coincidences in cases.

 

[margarita25]

BBM:

RSBM. I've not seen anything to connect RA and KAK. Personally, I don't think there is anything to link them in person or otherwise, unless there is an online connection. I don't happen to believe there is a CSAM ring or anything like that, however, I do think it's possible KAK and RA could have played in the same online sandbox, if you know what I mean, even if KAK didn't know it at the time. There are a lot of parallels between KAK and the Delphi murders, which might only be coincidences, but with the gag order, we simply don't know.

I think RA acted alone that day, but that doesn't mean there wasn't something online that KAK (or someone else) wasn't privy to, which somehow tied back to the murders, be it the girls posting they were going, photos, what have you. That would be total speculation on my part. I just haven't entirely shut the door on NMcL saying others were involved, or some of the other things that have been said that I listed before. RA could have been a lone wolf coming unhinged that day, with no online or other connection to anyone. I'm not closed off to that option, either, but for sake of the families, witnesses, and community, I hope they are told if that is the case, because otherwise they'll always wonder if others are out there. JMO.

ETA: In regards to your next post, about KAK's phone on the microwave, the affidavit pretty much says a lot of the data was lost in the deletion process.

This is potentially huge, imo.

 

[CGBSpender]

BBM:




Right. Strange.

—-

Thinking out loud, we know CSAM can be exchanged nationally and internationally via electronic sources.

I’ve never contemplated how this could be shared on a local level. This is a strange thought, but I wonder if “locals” get together in person, kind of like meet ups or book clubs or knitting groups. Maybe they do, especially if there is a child victim physically present at a gathering.

Just thinking more about KAK. Again, LE has not tied him or TK to Abby’s & Libby’s murders..it’s just so weird he said he was going to meet up with them that day iirc, (which iirc he later denied, but iirc LE may have confirmed this electronically via the Anthony Shots account), and also this red jeep business.

Again, such a strange thing to lie about. If he said this, then there must have been other context and details given when questioned about this by police, such as how long did you wait, was TK or whoever else bloody, etc., etc.

—-

Also, just noting, there are no documents that we know about confirming a connection between RA and CSAM, right? If he’s the perp, then maybe there is no CSAM, but I would doubt this if the crime was sexually motivated, which IMO it appears to be due to lack of clothing. Imo, the perps involved in sexually motivated crimes of children usually have CSAM on their devices.

Lack of clothing doesn't necessarily mean sexually motivated IMO. He may take undergarments as a trophy because they are worn close to a victim's body...he may have also left the victims without clothing because humiliating his victims in death makes him feel powerful, and/or he feels powerful by shocking LE and others who view the scene of his crime.

If the killer were a pedophile, then the avoidance of getting caught likely would have been the motivation for killing the victims. IMO, I think it is killing itself that excites this perpetrator...and he looked for victims he could easily control/manipulate...I don't think he is necessarily a pedophile. It's hard to tell because so little information is known about the crime.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

This seems to be the way this case is possibly playing out. We know there are several predators lurking at any given time. This is reinforced on the show “Undercover Underage”, where fake teen accounts on SM are regularly contacted by pervs.

I know sometimes people and LE say there is no such thing as coincidences, but I don’t believe this fully because I have seen some crazy coincidences in cases.

I sorta wonder this too. Maybe Libby posted in a group chat or on social media that she was going to the bridge and these two creepy perps both saw it? I don't know if KK would bother actually meeting up because of his size (I cannot picture him on that bridge or hiking any hills), but maybe he would go to lurk at the girls? And, maybe RA headed to the bridge with his bad intentions?
IDK, that seems like a lot random threads having to come together. But...??

jmo

 

[Yemelyan]

Lack of clothing doesn't necessarily mean sexually motivated IMO. He may take undergarments as a trophy because they are worn close to a victim's body...he may have also left the victims without clothing because humiliating his victims in death makes him feel powerful, and/or he feels powerful by shocking LE and others who view the scene of his crime.

If the killer were a pedophile, then the avoidance of getting caught likely would have been the motivation for killing the victims. IMO, I think it is killing itself that excites this perpetrator...and he looked for victims he could easily control/manipulate...I don't think he is necessarily a pedophile. It's hard to tell because so little information is known about the crime.

JMO

I agree that if the offender takes a victim's clothing from the murder scene it doesn't HAVE to be due to sexually motivated behavior... but IMO it almost always is. Even the two examples you gave are, in fact, sexually motivated post-mortem behaviors. Taking something worn "close to the victim's body" is thrilling precisely because it allows the offender to "re-live" the experience (using a euphemism here) -.in other words, the excitement that came from the act of killing is, in fact, a sexual excitement.

Posing a victim's body without clothing in order to humiliate her after death or in order to shock someone who finds her body is a form of sexual degradation. An offender could shock LE if he left for them to find, for example, a severed hand - but if he chooses to expose a victim's nudity specifically, then it reveals a sexual motivation to the crime.

A need to have power and control over someone while taking their life is linked to the sexual arousal response in many (most) of people who offend this way IMO.

 

[crhedBngr]

Benny Hill theme running through my head

Now you've done it!!!

I'll be hearing it in my head all night!

JMVHO.

 

[crhedBngr]

This reminds me, what was up with KAK possibly saying something about the red jeep waiting? And the girls didn’t show up or something? Maybe I’m imagining this. Sorry for brain farts in advance.

I know KAK hasn’t been charged with anything in connection to the murders of Abby and Libby, and he is known to be a huge liar according to MS podcast, but wondering what was up with that again, I forgot the details. Kind of a weird thing to lie about.

Anyone remember the details on that? Tia.

—-

Eta: I think I also possibly recall early on a red jeep seen in the trails parking lot.

I remember this. Where I heard it, or saw it verified in MSM, remains to be seen.

It may have been unverified texts.

JMVHO.

 

[lonewanderer]

That's not nearly enough time to enjoy the freedom of being without a mortgage payment. Life was easy w two incomes, three people. Wonder why he threw it all away?

I think that some people cannot handle stability.

It could be from boredom, and or feeling alright from “winning the game” of life.

Or, it could be that he just could not handle peaceful life, being used to some sort of chaos and seeking some type of disturbance or obstacle to overcome.

 

[lonewanderer]

I do have some questions about the bullet found at the scene.

Was Allen inexperienced with guns? I heard a theory he racked the weapon to intimidate the girls. If it’s loaded already, and you have any experience with magazine fed pistols, you know that it ejects the round if theres a round locked in the chamber. It also very visibly flys out of the chamber.

Was there a struggle? Maybe Liberty tried to take it from him and that’s when the round was ejected accidentally, unnoticed in the struggle.

Did the gun jam?

I want to say there’s a recording that we haven’t heard, with him racking the weapon back. If that’s the case, I think he just forgot he had one in the chamber and was too focused on the girls to realize he had ejected a round.