IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

[Falling Down]

When the girls were still missing, LE was already aware about the bridge photo of A, iirc, per one of their friends, right?

They knew from the night before, during the search. Roughly around 8PM local time the images were passed on to searchers, that way they knew the girls had made it as far as the bridge.

A news report from 10PM local time that night showed a young searcher at the VFD in Delphi showing the SC images to a reporter, it was a recorded interview from earlier in the evening. This was my frame of reference early on for the "7h" stamp on the images from SC, the reporter got the images and passed them on to other media outlets. That video disappeared off of YT by 2018 I think. 7 hours from 2PM roughly puts it at after 9PM, the searcher was showing the reporter the images from his own SC app on his phone, which explains the "7h" and the news broadcast at 10 showing the earlier recorded interview.

I keep in mind that that evening there was no real sense of urgency, as there was no evidence the girls were in danger. Who knows if LE was in possession of those images by mid-evening on the 13th.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

My thoughts after reading everyone's posts on the exit/entry routes and parking...

Entry/Parking- The killer likely parked and entered on property all owned by State or Local governments (no private properties or company owned properties). This limits the likelihood of encountering trail cameras IMO. Backing into the CPS building limits others parking near and getting a good look at the car/plate, since others hiking from Freedom Bridge will likely park in the lot on the west side of SR25.

Route to the Bridge- I don't think it is enough for the killer to know who is on the trails at that time beginning at the Mears lot entrance. I think he needs to start his plan/crime at the Freedom bridge in order to surveil who is on the entirety of the trails, what direction they are going, and whether or not they might be a problem for him in terms of location/timing.

Other Parking - As other have said he would encounter a locked gate eventually at 625W, and risks trail cameras on private property, so that is not a good option for the killer. The cemetery is too close to the crime scene to park IMO, too visible as well. RL was home at the time and anyone visiting his property, or visiting the graves in the cemetery would get a good look at the car. There is no reason for anyone to be at the CPS building, so the only risk of parking there is someone's dash cam footage traveling that area, or someone working on that end of The Anderson's taking notice. CPS is the less risky place to leave a vehicle IMO.

Exit- The killer can't go back the way they entered, too much risk. Exiting via the cemetery is risky in the event someone happened to be there visiting a grave, or saw him in that area. My thought is that the killer may have walked east and exited north to 300N via the little canyon/cave like area that lies to the east of RL's house and to the west of the houses on 575....or perhaps ever further east than that.

Like others, I don't understand how he gets from 300N back to the CPS lot without being captured on the HHS security camera or seen by more than just one witness (maybe he was and we just don't know it yet?). Nothing released so far tells us where on 300N he was seen. Did he have a prearranged ride back to the CPS lot at the conclusion of his "hike" with a friend or family member who bought whatever story he gave about why he was muddy/bloody?

JMO

I agree with all of this except the gorge is impassable at various sections along there, that is along the creek's sides.

My route(s) for BG are either A)Cemetery, M farm access road along the treeline, to C.R. 300, or B) There are at least two short trails on the M land in the gorge, one leads to the SW corner of their farmland parcel on the south side of 300, there's a 90 degree bend in the drive along the treeline, mere feet from the main trail going to MHB.

By access road/drive I mean the path farmers use to get around their fields, along tree lines. There's a U-shaped one on the farm parcel. Even better to go that route, BG could have avoided the cemetery entirely.

Great post.

JMO

 

[TheVisual]

Impossible. The man is walking BEHIND Abigail so how could her shoes be behind his foot? The few facts we do know matter.

The video (appx 43 seconds in length) depicts Abigail walking on the Monon High Bridge toward Liberty while a male subject wearing a dark jacket and jeans walks behind her.“

Source: page 1

https://www.wane.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/Delphi-Docs-2022.pdf

We don't know the sequence of events of the bridge. Obviously I see him as he passed her and Libby caught it on camera. JMO

 

[TheVisual]

No. I don't see shoes and don't believe there are any behind his left foot.

No. I don't see shoes and don't believe there are any behind his left foot.

So what do you think the white spots are?

 

[MistyWaters]

We don't know the sequence of events of the bridge. Obviously I see him as he passed her and Libby caught it on camera. JMO

We we’re discussing the white spots on the wood in some of the photos, which you‘ve stated you think are Abby’s shoes. Those photos are still frames taken from the video. LE states in the video depicts the male subject walking behind Abigail, so he can’t be walking ahead of either her or her shoes. That’s true we don’t know the entire sequence of events, only the few moments in time when Libby captured the video with the male subject walking behind Abigail, as LE has stated.

I can’t explain it any better but this is why it’s impossible that you’re seeing Abby’s shoes behind the subject.

 

[Gemmie]

So what do you think the white spots are?

It could be just about anything, and likely a big nothing burger IMO.

So let me ask this... why would her shoe(s) be behind/next to him, if he hadn't quite met up with them yet? He's on his way to where they are. DTH hadn't even been uttered yet IMO. He's approaching them, so I doubt she took her shoes off while standing on high up rickety old bridge as some dude approaches. Heck, I doubt she'd do that even if some dude wasn't approaching. lol Her shoes don't exactly look easy to get off when standing on that bridge. Not like they are a thong that you can simply walk out of.

Her shoes are the last thing in my mind in regards to whatever some folks are seeing by his foot.

All MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

So what do you think the white spots are?

I think it’s a combination of photo pixilation and bleached wood. If you’ve watched any of the youtube videos of the bridge, there’s various shades of ties including some rot, as would expected on a structure that’s so old.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think it’s a combination of photo pixilation and bleached wood. If you’ve watched any of the youtube videos of the bridge, there’s various shades of ties including some rot, as would expected on a structure that’s so old.

Usually those spots aren't round and white. GH gave us a good look in one of his videos of that particular area. That white-ish shape beside BG's right leg was a marker for placing BG in the correct location. Maybe, if anyone ever sees that part again, they could post it and maybe we could see what those spots are.

That image is too strange for me to even make a guess as to what those 2 spots are. Since they made the sleeve (?) disappear, I have to wonder if they did other editing.

 

[FrostedGlass]

As for RA's route to the bridge, the day was so nice...maybe his wife made him take some trash or yard waste to the transfer station. If he was planning on going to the bridge after dumping the trash, then the route we believe he took would have been shorter than going back through town.

 

[Falling Down]

I have difficulty with discussion of anyone being behind BG on the bridge that day, GH did a great video stablizing the video from the iPhone, a while ago. Stabilized for movement of the phone.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I have difficulty with discussion of anyone being behind BG on the bridge that day, GH did a great video stablizing the video from the iPhone, a while ago. Stabilized for movement of the phone.

Why don't we see the spots? Also, can we see the part that has the sleeve in it?

 

[somequestions]

I feel like a broken record Libby could have taken that picture at 2:05 or 2:00. The 2:07 time stamp is when the Snapchat was posted and not necessarily when the picture was taken.

If the upload is at 2:05pm, then the picture was taken at or before 2:05pm. If the upload of the picture of Abby is at 2:07pm, then the picture was taken at 2:07 or before 2:07pm. Is this incorrect?

This is how I interpreted it. What is so important if the picture was taken before 2:05pm or 2:07pm? I do not understand.

I tried to write as much as possible "2:05 or before" for the Liberty German full bridge picture or "2:07 or before" for the Abigail Williams picture on the bridge, but I did forget on a few sentences because I wanted to limit my typing and thought most people knew what I meant already since you had already posted previously that the timestamp is only the timing of the upload of the picture and not when the picture was taken.

 

[Ursamajr]

If the upload is at 2:05pm, then the picture was taken at or before 2:05pm. If the upload of the picture of Abby is at 2:07pm, then the picture was taken at 2:07 or before 2:07pm. Is this incorrect?

This is how I interpreted it. What is so important if the picture was taken before 2:05pm or 2:07pm? I do not understand.

I tried to write as much as possible "2:05 or before" for the Liberty German full bridge picture or "2:07 or before" for the Abigail Williams picture on the bridge, but I did forget on a few sentences because I wanted to limit my typing and thought most people knew what I meant already since you had already posted previously that the timestamp is only the timing of the upload of the picture and not when the picture was taken.

Yes, I think I was being slightly facetious in my post. I just picked some random times. To word it "the picture was taken at 2:07 or before 2:07pm" is much better.

Sometimes people get stuck on that 2:07 timestamp and think the picture *must* have been taken at exactly 2:07. Then, a tangent in the form of a rabbit hole starts to form about how RA made it across the bridge so fast since he doesn't appear to be in the 2:07 picture. I get really twitchy when theories start sounding like fanfiction and/or conspiracies. But thats my personal problem

 

[Falling Down]

Yes, I think I was being slightly facetious in my post. I just picked some random times. To word it "the picture was taken at 2:07 or before 2:07pm" is much better.

Sometimes people get stuck on that 2:07 timestamp and think the picture *must* have been taken at exactly 2:07. Then, a tangent in the form of a rabbit hole starts to form about how RA made it across the bridge so fast since he doesn't appear to be in the 2:07 picture. I get really twitchy when theories start sounding like fanfiction and/or conspiracies. But thats my personal problem

Same here, when we know Libby started recording the :43 video during 13 min. after the hour.

I don't understand why it's important whether the pic of AW was before 2, after 2, etc.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Yes, I think I was being slightly facetious in my post. I just picked some random times. To word it "the picture was taken at 2:07 or before 2:07pm" is much better.

Sometimes people get stuck on that 2:07 timestamp and think the picture *must* have been taken at exactly 2:07. Then, a tangent in the form of a rabbit hole starts to form about how RA made it across the bridge so fast since he doesn't appear to be in the 2:07 picture. I get really twitchy when theories start sounding like fanfiction and/or conspiracies. But thats my personal problem

The whole thing seems to be on such a tight timeline that it's almost like it's choreographed. It's probably only natural to want to understand the time stamp issue.

Time last seen on the billboards was 2:30 PM.

 

[Ursamajr]

Same here, when we know Libby started recording the :43 video during 13 min. after the hour.

I don't understand why it's important whether the pic of AW was before 2, after 2, etc.

JMO

I think It's important to people that want to figure out why RA isn't seen in the picture posted at 2:07 yet he is in the video by 2:13. Two major options could be:

The B&W bridge photo was taken before 2:07. Libby looks through shots and plays with filters eventually liking what she sees and posts it at 2:07. RA could be crossing from the northwest side of the bridge as Libby does this and that would be in the time between her taking the pic and posting.

Libby takes the photo with filters already applied and directly posts at 2:07. RA is not in the picture and would have had to book it onto the trail and across the bridge by 2:13 if approaching from the northwest so some have a theory that RA approached from the southeast side.

Both are valid options I think.

 

[TL4S]

We can argue that RA was trying to avoid surveillance cameras, but he missed the most obvious ones in the entire area on HH. We could see them plain as day from photos on Google maps right after the murders, so I don't personally think cameras crossed his mind, at least not on the way there. JMO.

We can argue that it isn't uncommon to back into parking spaces, but imo, there was maybe more to the way he'd parked that drew attention. It was significant enough for at least two people to notice it, report it, and LE to include it in the PCA. JMO.

We can argue that it's normal to carry a gun and knife, but if what we see in his pocket really is the gun, then that is not the normal way to carry, imo. And considering both were used in the commission of a violent crime, I'm not going to give him the benefit of doubt. JMO.

We can argue he was just out hiking that day, and was triggered, but he parked concealed-like, was carrying weapons, was described as walking with purpose, head down, unresponsive, and "grumpy," made it to the bridge in probably 15 minutes, then waited there for over 20 minutes. JMO.

I mean, in my view, his behavior was suspicious from the very beginning, when he parked. We can argue all these things, but in the end, he did not just go for a hike that day, he killed two girls (allegedly). To imagine he did all these things and then just happened to be triggered, or that he had just wanted to kill someone randomly near the MHB seems a farther stretch than him knowing the girls were going to be there, even if only knowing that an hour before they left. JMO.

ETA: in regards to the white spots being A's shoes:
We know the video is only 43 seconds, that's not enough time for A to be behind him, pass him, get ahead of him, and still discuss him with L as he approached, IMO. And if for some reason her shoes were off and sitting on the bridge, he walked right past them, they all went down the hill, and he emerged muddy and bloody along 300. If her shoes were on the bridge, wouldn't KG have seen them when she crossed the bridge that night, looking for the girls? The shoes weren't missing, according to the PCA (only underwear and a sock were not recovered). And I don't think LE superimposed BG over a video of A on the bridge, either. Why would they do that? I just can't find any way possible for the white spots to be A's shoes. JMO.

 

[TL4S]

I think It's important to people that want to figure out why RA isn't seen in the picture posted at 2:07 yet he is in the video by 2:13. Two major options could be:

The B&W bridge photo was taken before 2:07. Libby looks through shots and plays with filters eventually liking what she sees and posts it at 2:07. RA could be crossing from the northwest side of the bridge as Libby does this and that would be in the time between her taking the pic and posting.

Libby takes the photo with filters already applied and directly posts at 2:07. RA is not in the picture and would have had to book it onto the trail and across the bridge by 2:13 if approaching from the northwest so some have a theory that RA approached from the southeast side.

Both are valid options I think.

I agree that the photo was likely taken shortly before 2:07, but even if it was exactly 2:07, he could have gotten on the bridge right after and still made it to them by 2:13. JMO. To me, we know the two important times: 1:49 girls dropped off, and 2:13 video. That's 24 minutes, and what's scary to me is that he was already on the bridge when the witness got there, which means he stayed around the bridge nearly a half hour before engaging the girls. JMO.

 

[Ursamajr]

I agree that the photo was likely taken shortly before 2:07, but even if it was exactly 2:07, he could have gotten on the bridge right after and still made it to them by 2:13. JMO. To me, we know the two important times: 1:49 girls dropped off, and 2:13 video. That's 24 minutes, and what's scary to me is that he was already on the bridge when the witness got there, which means he stayed around the bridge nearly a half hour before engaging the girls. JMO.

Also a valid option. I definitely think he could have made it across within 6 minutes.

 

[Megnut]

Have we got it all backwards? He wasn't in the 2:07 photo because he was behind Libby. So Abby might've seen him, with or without worry, then as the girls get closer to one another, he passes them on the bridge? Gets behind them and then forces them to the end of the bridge and DTH? Maybe the girls were close together when Libby started videoing .... one reason that LE couldn't release more video, that blip was the only splice the girls themselves weren't visible in.

Not sure this lines up but it's a thought anyway.

JMO