IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

[cuecard]

They were over their heads and asked for help from Georgia BI too late. It is easy to criticize post factum, though, as everyone is under own pressure. I respect everyone who's still following this case, btw.

Yeah, you’re probably not wrong unfortunately. Hopefully LE’s investigation into RA has all I’s dotted and all T’s crossed. There’s some interesting stuff put forward by the defense, no doubt about it. All we can do is wait and see.

 

[Salah11]

If there was no sexual assault then why strip the girls?

It’s all very strange and I am struggling to see what RA got out of it unless there is a lot to this than we know?


Also this proves to me without a shadow of doubt that KK wasn’t involved as he was pervert who liked young girls so it doesn’t seem this crime had a sexual element if these documents are right.

IMO

 

[mrjitty]

Lol know. It was huge in the 1980's. Good luck to the defense, they're going to need it.

This part was when I gave up on it ...

Beyond the shocking omissions concerning the pagan cult’s links to the murders and the fact that Odinists were also watching Richard Allen (akin to foxes watching the henhouse)

this goes deep!

 

[Salah11]

If the police officers looking after RA had cult badges that would be easy enough to prove as they all must be recorded 24/7 and if one day the badges have suddenly disappeared off their uniforms then that’s easy to prove. IMO

 

[Havingacrisis]

Is it at all likely that this document has fabricated the details of the crime scene? If not and it is true, surely this means that the perpetrator is either a member of this Odin religion or attempted to stage the scene to implicate the people involved with those beliefs directly?

There is definite evidence that this religion is real in this area, that they make ‘runes’ with sticks and have them tattooed. So if the crime scene details are accurate I am struggling to not be shocked at the obvious connection, even if it is a fabricated one meant to frame them. Why would someone do this?

To name people directly who are apparently not suspects in this document seems like a very bold and risky move here

A very bizarre and horrifying update, the more I think about it the more questions I end up with

 

[mrjitty]

I thought there was a gag order.

How has this been made public?

The gag order simply prohibits the legal teams discussing the case in the media.

It does not apply to filed documents or media coverage of those documents and hearings.

 

[mrjitty]

While the focus is understandably on the Odinite theory and the crime scene details, I have to say I really find Part III of the motion troubling.

If what they describe there is true, than it could be a potentially huge problem for the search warrant. You're not required to discuss alternate suspects in a SW affidavit, you just need to lay out the evidence that establishes probable cause that specified items related to a crime are going to be found at the location to be searched. So, IMO, the Odinite stuff just isn't very relevant to a Franks Hearing.

However, you're not allowed to mislead the judge about the evidence in the affidavit. And you're supposed to include anything that undermines it so that the judge can make an informed decision. Leaving out the witness's non-matching description of the man on the bridge, her non-matching description of the car in the CPS parking lot and altering the 2nd witness's description of the man she saw walking along the road seems pretty bad to me. Possibly throw-the-warrant-out bad, depending on the judge.

Agreed - I wonder if that witness gave an updated description?

It seems incredible that the 'bloody' element and change of jacket colour would be fabricated by LE in the affidavit

I wonder why all the cult stuff is even included in this motion other than to publicise it.

 

[LunaInvidia]

MPOO, (my pagan opinion only), I think this was included in the motion as the fantasy of someone who wants very badly to find someone to blame, or a crime scene staged by someone who wants to slough suspicion off themself and onto someone who's known to be out of the broom closet. I'd get into the Hávamál but I think that'd be too off topic, yeah?

(note: I know a few Nordic heathens- not the white supremacist kind- but am not one myself.)

 

[Havingacrisis]

MPOO, (my pagan opinion only), I think this was included in the motion as the fantasy of someone who wants very badly to find someone to blame, or a crime scene staged by someone who wants to slough suspicion off themself and onto someone who's known to be out of the broom closet. I'd get into the Hávamál but I think that'd be too off topic, yeah?

(note: I know a few Nordic heathens- not the white supremacist kind- but am not one myself.)

Do you think the crime scene was staged?

 

[Vern]

MPOO, (my pagan opinion only), I think this was included in the motion as the fantasy of someone who wants very badly to find someone to blame, or a crime scene staged by someone who wants to slough suspicion off themself and onto someone who's known to be out of the broom closet. I'd get into the Hávamál but I think that'd be too off topic, yeah?

(note: I know a few Nordic heathens- not the white supremacist kind- but am not one myself.)

Yes, it really sucks when racists hijack a religions Valknot and turn it into a racist symbol for themselves. That's not representative of their religion however. I suspect that what we will see going forward is that some Ásatrú experts will be called in to debunk the use of the sticks as 'actual' runes. Runes are symbolic ... and specific by layout.

I am of the opinion that sticks were used and that may explain why another entity "reached out" to Delphi authorities way back when about "a detail" found at the crime scene made them think there may be some relevency to another crime scene, but investigation probably showed that the two were not alike (ie: one had actual runes and one had mere 'sticks' placed in the crime scene for example; either could also be condsidered 'staging' which LE has disclosed occured).

What To Do When Racists Try To Hijack Your Religion

White supremacists are coopting Norse heathen symbols. Should the heathens ignore them? Protest them? Create a new theology?

www.theatlantic.com

IMO, Delphi has their man and the defence is clutching desperately onto every rumour and innuendo that's been seen about the case on the internet thus far. Someone stated earlier that it was like they made a checklist of internet grumblings on the case and wrote this latest filing with a 'check', 'check', 'check' to make sure they covered them all in order to sow doubt. BUT, to me, that's all the more support and thankfulness that LE did not disclose publicly too many details and that will ultimately allow the prosecution to 'check', 'check', 'check' all the rumours spaghetti away that the defence has now thrown on the wall.

 

[mrjitty]

Random thoughts on all this

• We may now know why the tip was lost - it was filed under the wrong name, and thus presumably they could not find a witness to match the tip, until someone did some kind of data troll to work out the name was wrong?
• interesting that RA now claims he left at by 1.30 - this resolves one question of how the defence intend to resolve the trail / timetable issue. A super early departure. But the problem with this is, how did he then meet the 3 females on the trail? Also video evidence apparently shows his car arriving around 1.27 - which matches what he originally told the officer - that he was on the trails between 1.30-3.30pm. I understand the defence claiming this is only a time range (we don't know how the witness will describe it) but it seems quite deceptive here to be claiming this means RA had already left by 1.30
• Stuff about the description of the car has been talked about before. Perhaps the witness simply got this wrong. The other evidence tends to suggest it must have still been RAs car that was there.
• These kinds of abduction crimes often have 2 or 3 crime scenes. IMO the abduction scene and disposal scene were carefully chosen as places where the killer could snatch the girls and bring them to the secluded location where he could commit the elaborate crime. As such the victims may be random, but IMO he was waiting for the right opportunity - perhaps over many occasions
• Horrific crime scene - no wonder the focus on wild theories down the years. To my mind this rules out ideas of pedo rings etc. This will be one offender who did this.
• IMO it's probably RA who seeded this conspiracy idea - he will have followed this stuff down the years. The stuff about cult members in the prison is beyond silly. Pure projection IMO

 

[mrjitty]

Also. - i would love to know what was recovered in the search.

We now know why the defence has given up on the prelim. The strategy is to get the warrant thrown out, and then the case dismissed. I think they know they are doomed at trial given he fessed up to it multiple times.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

I hate to admit this, but in my mind, their version of what happened seems more detailed and compelling than what was established in the PCA for RA.

It still certainly doesn't explain why he would have confessed multiple times. But no DNA or electronic connections to the victims...and only an ejected bullet possibly linking RA to the crime scene...again, I really hate to admit it. But I went from as late as early this morning thinking there was no way this was going to trial and that RA would plead guilty to now having doubt.

Whatever the truth is, I think the investigators failed these two girls.

One of those named in the doc was top 3 on my list. <modsnip: sleuthing someone not named by LE as a suspect/POI>

<modsnip>

If I had not gone down the creepy rabbit hole many years ago, I'd likely dismiss this as a thin air grasp.

Abby was covered with sticks to form Germanic rune? I don't like knowing CS deets but I suppose it's necessary. Could this theory blow the case wide open?

LEO has no RA DNA? There's no phone data linking RA to LG. KAK is not connected to RA. RA left the bridge at 1:30pm.

(BBM above)

MOO: The language in the filing is carefully parsed, which is what attorneys do.

The defense is selectively quoting Liggett’s deposition to make their case — the judge has the context; we do not. Context matters.

1) The Crime Scene: They quote Liggett as saying there is no DNA linking RA to the crime scene. In describing the crime scene in the section entitled “The Crime Scene,” the crime scene is specifically defined as where the bodies were located.

If one were to read narrowly, IMO, that could be read only as RA’s DNA was not found at the body site. Hypothetically, it does not exclude the following potential scenarios:
—The victims’ DNA found on something in RA’s possession
—DNA of an RA-affiliated person at the crime scene (corollary could be the LISK burial scene, where allegedly LE linked a hair to suspect RH’s spouse)
—RA DNA recovered from the Monon High Bridge area, but not precisely where the bodies were located

I read this as excluding the Monon High Bridge itself from the “crime scene” — but recall RA was charged with felony murder. LE considers the MHB encounter to be a “crime scene.”

There are also several known links other than DNA, including the BG video; witnesses; a timeline supported by security camera recordings; the cycled bullet casing; reported confessions and other statements (plus the original “rediscovered” narrative statement); and likely more.

2) Electronic data: Liggett and others are referenced as saying there is no link to “the crime” or “the crime scene” through RA’s phone, computers or electronics. That doesn’t include links that may be on other’s devices (most obviously Libby’s recordings) or cloud data; it refers only to recovered devices; and these statements don’t (hypothetically) exclude any evidence of other criminal activity that may have been discovered.

The defense is building an alternate narrative. It’s what they do. Comparing it to the probable cause affidavit is apples and oranges — the PC affidavit established probable cause, it did not and did not have to establish a narrative.

MOO.

/edited for grammar

 

[steeltowngirl]

BUT, to me, that's all the more support and thankfulness that LE did not disclose publicly too many details and that will ultimately allow the prosecution to 'check', 'check', 'check' all the rumours spaghetti away that the defence has now thrown on the wall.

Yes! Throwing spaghetti at the wall, or as some have called it - mud at the wall.

It’s much smellier than both, so I will call it for what it is - throwing *doodoo* against the wall. IMO

I’m just so sorry that the families of Libby and Abby must be experiencing yet more pain from the inevitable media circus that will result.

The motion reeks of desperation by RA’s defense.
In turn, I am feeling better about prosecution’s case, to be revealed at trial.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

They lost me at "Easter Eggs".

I didn't even make it that far and missed any Easter eggs. And I'm not bothered. This is all nuts, imo.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Honestly, I thought it reads like something written by AI with the input of court documents and macabre teens on Reddit. MOO

I'm surprised John John Kennedy wasn't predicted to return to clear out the cult from the town.

jmo

 

[Oakie]

This barrel of horse poop is all that the defense can offer up to try and create reasonable doubt. Ain’t gonna work.
Those that love the memory of these precious children need to demand dignity for them during this trial. Do not let the hyenas murder them twice with this trial.

Absolutely. Feel the edge of Occam's Razor. This ploy by the defense would seem comically absurd, if not for the anger and disgust it must provoke in the families of the victims.

 

[Salah11]

There are definitely a lot of questions that need answering. I guess we will hear this at a trial.

If Libby was groomed why then is there no record of this on any of the devices found?

I am wondering if Libby was lured to that bridge and Abby was a surprise to RA because it seems like the brunt of the attack was aimed at Libby?


On the other hand if this was the spur of the moment attack then why was Libby subjected to the brunt of the attack?


If there was no sexual element then how was Libby and Abby Lured to the bridge , a cult meeting was hardly going to get them out there that day?


The new suspect does also resemble BG so that’s confusing as well.



IMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

The new suspect does also resemble BG so that’s confusing as well.

It is confusing, but remember the plethora of side-by-sides that appeared on social media over the course of five years.

Only one man that closely resembles BG has himself confirmed to LE that he was on the bridge in the timeframe of the murders.

Richard Allen.

 

[OldCop]

Yes! Throwing spaghetti at the wall, or as some have called it - mud at the wall.

It’s much smellier than both, so I will call it for what it is - throwing *doodoo* against the wall. IMO

I’m just so sorry that the families of Libby and Abby must be experiencing yet more pain from the inevitable media circus that will result.

The motion reeks of desperation by RA’s defense.
In turn, I am feeling better about prosecution’s case, to be revealed at trial.

jmo

We all know that doo do is compromised of a variety of materials first ingested and later expelled by a living organism. You unfortunately have to comb through it to determine its makeup.
It appears here that the defense team has ingested bits of Odinism, paganism, white supremacy, human sacrifice, Runes and other symbols, as well as rumor and innuendo, none of which go well together and causes an unpleasant case of diarrhea which now has to be cleaned up.