IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

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Yes, all that could be true, but it's still a massive leap from that to a ritual murder of two teenagers seemingly at random with a wide range of participants and conspiracy between them to accuse a random guy who was at the trail, dressed like bridge guy, carrying a knife and a gun, checking his stocks and 'watching fish' from a decomposing rail bridge way too high above the water to see fish.

MOO
The crime scene appears to be very ritualistic - whatever the defense is describing here can be seen by the judge, and it shocked first responders, so I don’t doubt that the description here is accurate. The prosecution said just before a gag order that the investigation was ongoing and (paraphrasing) likely others involved.
 
I wonder what the crime scene profilers made of this crime scene

The accused is one sick sick puppy

I don't buy all the odinist conspiracy nonsense, but clearly this does seem to be posed in some paganistic way. I wonder what that says or what the intended meaning is?

Like especially one victim being clothed and one not
 
It does all read like fantasy fiction, for sure, but if the crime scene description is accurate, the killer(s) did some super bizarre things: posing and seemingly redressing bodies, painting a tree with victim blood, placing sticks on and around the bodies, putting two bras on one girl, etc. We don't have to interpret that as Odinism, but we've long known the CS was "odd," thanks to RI, and now we might better understand why.

This goes far beyond killing because some girls laughed at him, or he wanted to SA them, imo. It's weird. Maybe eating paperwork weird. Idk. No matter what we believe as individuals, and no matter the spin either the prosecutor or defense puts on the crime scene, it was the killer(s) who left it that way, and it's not normal. Jmo.
Oh, no doubt the killer did things at the scene that were signature - unnecessary, but fulfilled him in some way - but as strange as signature actions can be, they don't necessarily mean there's any kind of religiosity or cultishness behind them. Acting out of fantasy, though, yes. Postmortem handling, dressing, posing, unusual covering of the body, aren't present at most homicides, but they are all known behaviours that have been observed, documented and studied, particularly in the realm of sexually motivated homicide, which there is every indication Abby and Libby's murders were.

Tl;dr, even if the dressing, posing, positioning of the branches and writing on the tree were all intentional and purposeful, it doesn't mean it couldn't have been a single offender acting out their fantasy through postmortem signature behaviours.

MOO
 
I wonder what the crime scene profilers made of this crime scene

The accused is one sick sick puppy

I don't buy all the odinist conspiracy nonsense, but clearly this does seem to be posed in some paganistic way. I wonder what that says or what the intended meaning is?

Like especially one victim being clothed and one not
According to the defense memorandum, an FBI BAU profiler said likely practices Nordic beliefs - will try to hunt down the exact phrase momentarily and edit this.

ETA, from page 6-7 of the Defense memo in support of Franks hearing - "According to the summary of Click’s investigation that he attached with his letter, “the Behavioral Analysis Unit (BAU) of the FBI determined that the individual(s) responsible for the homicides were involved in Nordic beliefs.” This was news to the Defense as no member of the Unified Command in charge of the investigation revealed this information to the Defense during recent depositions. This includes Trooper Holeman who told the Defense that he didn’t remember if the FBI’s BAU unit determined one way or the other whether those with Nordic beliefs had been involved in the murders. At least up until the time of this filing, the prosecution has provided no evidence whatsoever of the findings of the FBI’s BAU unit concerning involvement of Odinists in the murders. None. The letter that Click sent to McCleland was the first that the Defense has heard that the FBI actually believed that Odinists were likely involved. In other words, this report contained exculpatory evidence that Unified Command concealed from the Defense. This information was – and is— crucial for Richard Allen’s Defense. Some of this exculpatory evidence in the form of videos was finally released to the Defense on September 8, 2023, over 9 months after Defense counsel entered their appearance."
 
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also the mess that the invstigation was is gonna catch up with them
i said this way before he was caught..that the silly second sketch alone would be used by the defence
and its now ? I am pretty sure this witness didnt see BG at all
its a bad mess. i dont know even what witness any side is using now
but they identified them ? is that normal
 
i still believe this new information raises a lot of questions.


It was claimed that RA was walking towards the bridge with purpose and was short with people who tried to engage him. Yet the Defense are claiming there is zero indication that he had any telecommunications with the girls so why he was in a rush that day? - it simply doesn’t add up



BB seemed like a key witness for the prosecution but now the defense are claiming it’s all lies and the prosecution have outright lied about what she saw so surely that’s illegal and jeopardizes the case?
These are allegations made by the Defense in support of their Franks Motion, which is CRITICAL to them. They need the evidence against RA thrown out because it is so damning to him.

Just because the Defense has this 'theory' or makes these allegation doesn't make them all true. The Prosecution cannot respond because of the gag order which is why I find this entire 136 document a sneaky, dirty Hail Mary. I believe they did this as a cold, calculated move for their guilty client.

MOO
 
These are allegations made by the Defense in support of their Franks Motion, which is CRITICAL to them. They need the evidence against RA thrown out because it is so damning to him.

Just because the Defense has this 'theory' or makes these allegation doesn't make them all true. The Prosecution cannot respond because of the gag order which is why I find this entire 136 document a sneaky, dirty Hail Mary. I believe they did this as a cold, calculated move for their guilty client.

MOO
This seems relevant, though this is crime, not politics.


MOO
 
I can't see the evidence photos, obviously, but all I can think is, he covered the bodies with branches... and? That seems like a normal thing for a killer concealing a body to do. Runes are all angles, and you throw a bunch of tree limbs down at random, they're possibly going to vaguely look like something runic with zero intent to spell out a message. And the F rune on the tree? Could be intentional, of course, but could have also been there because the killer grabbed the tree, leaned on it, or wiped his hand on the bark while he had blood on his fingers.

I think this is the equivalent of defense throwing a smoke bomb into a crowded place. It's loud and disruptive and unpleasant, but nothing is actually exploding or on fire, however much they want us to believe it is.

MOO

Oddly, how random branches could resemble runes probably can be compared to the photo of the man on the bridge who’s concealing virtually everything anyone can imagine inside his coat!
 
okay, just a few thoughts of mine. the way Abby’s body was allegedly positioned (right leg bent at the knee and placed behind the left leg specifically) seems to be in reference to a lot of images i’ve seen with just very basic google searches. i looked up “Odin world tree” because of the fb post by BH mentioned in the document and only had to scroll past a few images before seeing artwork that displays that same body positioning of Odin hanging from the tree. these facebook posts that allegedly mimicked the crime scene, could they have just been general Odinist artwork you can easily find online that the defense is attempting to link to the murders? also, this makes me feel even more like the possible Odinism aspects of the scene could have been done by someone who was just trying to make it appear cultish as a red herring. i know next to nothing about Norse religion and still found these images very easily.

another thought, Abby being found wearing two bras might not be as weird as it seems. obviously this is speculation based on personal experience, but the second bra was described as being a sports bra and when i was 13 i remember putting my sports bra on over a “regular” bra because i wanted to not look so flat chested. i’m pretty sure i also thought sports bras were supposed to go over your regular bra when i first started wearing them. so maybe it’s just a case of pre-teen logic? just figured i throw that out there since i’ve seen others wondering why she’d have been in two bras.
 
These are allegations made by the Defense in support of their Franks Motion, which is CRITICAL to them. They need the evidence against RA thrown out because it is so damning to him.

Just because the Defense has this 'theory' or makes these allegation doesn't make them all true. The Prosecution cannot respond because of the gag order which is why I find this entire 136 document a sneaky, dirty Hail Mary. I believe they did this as a cold, calculated move for their guilty client.

MOO
After reading it, it doesn't seem so much like a Hail Mary to me as defense attorneys doing some whistleblowing in an attempt to figure out what is actually going on with LE here.
 
I have to wonder, the Defence has made some pretty wild accusations against a specific set of men in the community (the Odinites). I mean wild! Is there *any* chance they're HOPING these men (one, some or all of them) band together to SUE them? Because it occurs to me that if these guys DO try to sue the legal team, they're going to have to prove a whole lot of things, such as where they were specifically, what they were doing, their connections to eachother, and how they could not possibly have done this!

Could this be what the team wants in regards to RA? Is it possible they know something more about the case than we do, and this is some sort of BAIT to force movement in an otherwise stalled investigation?
 
Oddly, how random branches could resemble runes probably can be compared to the photo of the man on the bridge who’s concealing whatever in his coat!
One of the branches was was several feet longer than Libby's body. I know there is a wealth of potential for what could be under that coat, but I don't see a branch potentially eight or nine feet long being one of them. They were found in the woods. It's not a stretch to presume that the branches came from the scene.

MOO
 
The attorneys attest to the Odin patches on the guards - at the very least someone is messing with RA psychologically.

And I really must stress that Indiana is a weird little state with a long, weird history, and as one who lives here, I would not be at all surprised to learn that corrections officers belong to white nationalist groups (and cops, for that matter) or that a religion/Norse mythology has been co-opted by a bunch of country boys who just want to feel like they BELONG to something or that someone facing re-election did something highly unethical. None of this seems at all off-the-wall or out of character for Indiana to me whatsoever (much as it pains me to say so). So my hope is that whatever FBI task force running the show here is not the same one that protected Larry Nassar. I mean seriously, who in Indiana is a person to trust? The good ole boys’ network is *strong* here.
I hear ya, I really do. In my 20s, when I lived in the midwest, I found out my co-worker belonged to some weird supremacy group. It was very disturbing to find that out - still makes me sad to realize how some people can believe such vile things.

But, it's a huge leap, imo, to go from cult hate group to ritualized murder of two young teen girls in the community. That doesn't ring true to me.

But, then again....I am remembering that LE said there might be more arrests. Am I remembering that correctly? I forgot about that until just now.

jmo
 
According to the defense memorandum, an FBI BAU profiler said likely practices Nordic beliefs - will try to hunt down the exact phrase momentarily and edit this.

ETA, from page 6-7 of the Defense memo in support of Franks hearing - "According to the summary of Click’s investigation that he attached with his letter, “the Behavioral Analysis Unit (BAU) of the FBI determined that the individual(s) responsible for the homicides were involved in Nordic beliefs.” This was news to the Defense as no member of the Unified Command in charge of the investigation revealed this information to the Defense during recent depositions. This includes Trooper Holeman who told the Defense that he didn’t remember if the FBI’s BAU unit determined one way or the other whether those with Nordic beliefs had been involved in the murders. At least up until the time of this filing, the prosecution has provided no evidence whatsoever of the findings of the FBI’s BAU unit concerning involvement of Odinists in the murders. None. The letter that Click sent to McCleland was the first that the Defense has heard that the FBI actually believed that Odinists were likely involved. In other words, this report contained exculpatory evidence that Unified Command concealed from the Defense. This information was – and is— crucial for Richard Allen’s Defense. Some of this exculpatory evidence in the form of videos was finally released to the Defense on September 8, 2023, over 9 months after Defense counsel entered their appearance."

Did you notice it ever explained in the document why Click from the police force in Rushville, IA would be privy to the specific Delphi crime scene details and go on to write a report even though he wasn’t a part of the investigative team, let alone why the FBI BAU unit would become involved in his report in a case that didn’t occur within the Rushville jurisdiction.

Could have saved 136 pages of type by providing proof “the FBI believes Odinites were likely involved”. And if the FBI really do believe this, why wouldn’t they take over the prosecution of it because of the association to terrorist organizations?
“The letter that Click sent to McCleland was the first that the Defense has heard that the FBI actually believed that Odinists were likely involved.”
 
I hear ya, I really do. In my 20s, when I lived in the midwest, I found out my co-worker belonged to some weird supremacy group. It was very disturbing to find that out - still makes me sad to realize how some people can believe such vile things.

But, it's a huge leap, imo, to go from cult hate group to ritualized murder of two young teen girls in the community. That doesn't ring true to me.

But, then again....I am remembering that LE said there might be more arrests. Am I remembering that correctly? I forgot about that until just now.

jmo
If I laid out all the crimes that have happened in my tiny corner of Indiana over the last 50 years, Odinist cult killers or serial killer with a rune fetish might make the top 3 (in terms of weird, I mean). When it comes to Indiana, "leaps" aren't really leaps.
 
Some of those "random branches" had been cleanly cut with an electric saw, according to Defense.
Even if they were, it doesn't mean that they were cut by the killer, on the day. People maintaining their properties cut brush and branches to keep things from getting overgrown and maintain access all the time. And on a big property, they're probably going to let it lie until they're ready to gather it together and burn it or dispose of it.

MOO
 
Take a few days off WS to focus on the fall to-do lists and look what happens. I caught up last night but woke up this morning thinking surely I imagined this.
It’s not that the defense story isn’t realistic. We have those faux Nordic people in my state too. The leaders have violent criminal records and they prey on poor white folk looking for an identity. Come on, people, buy yourself a Nordic cookbook, a rosemaling trunk, and learn some of your heritage— no need to join a hate group.
So yes, those people exist, but the story here is clearly written for public consumption, high school reading level — no legalese, and full of horror/thriller-style details to make sure it gets us engaged and enthralled. It’s greasy of them and I’m so sorry for the families. I want RA to have a solid defense but not like this.
I’m not religious but willing to say a prayer here today for justice.
 
By the looks of it, what would’ve required an extraordinarily long extension cord as well!
I think the implication is they were cut elsewhere and brought to the scene.

<modsnip: No links to support information stated as fact>
 
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