IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

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Diddian said:
And those woods are used for deer hunting. There were reportedly some deer stands in the area. I could imagine hunters sawing off select branches to place those deer stands and just leaving those branches lying around.
Click to expand...

I recall reading there was an annual trail cleanup, completed by volunteers. Very likely that involved trimming tree branches which impeded walking along the trails.
 
IMO RA was charged very carefully.

As I understand it, the prosecution is saying that RA abducted the girls. On the bridge, from the moment he said G...DTH. Murder followed. If RA is BG, then RA is responsible for their deaths, no matter where his hands were.

If the CS depiction in this motion is even marginally accurate, we can work backwards:

The girls didn't murder themselves.

Somebody or somebodies did.

Who then?

One guy with an as-yet-identified motive, who set it up to look culty because he himself is culty?

or one guy who wanted LE to pursue the Odins...so he staged it?

Or Odins were involved. Largely via plebes.

Ring of truth: are there people who know how it went down who are:

sending statements/warnings to RA, to remember not to crow

Or are they taunts? We know your secrets....

Could RA be more afraid of Odins than LE?

To me, this Motion does not impact the current charges against RA. In fact, to me, it makes the case for one or more accomplices, working with him.

IMO possibly A was never undressed, never crossed the creek. (I don't have a good grasp of the terrain -- bridge, creek, bodies.) It seems possible to me that A was incapacited almost immediately. At least one girl was forced to cross the creek, possibly forced to carry her clothes across, under threat of injury, under promise she/they could redress if the clothing remained dry.... comply and live.

Maybe crossing the creek was purposeful. Maybe it was reactionary (if one or both girls bolted, for instance). Young girls, had to be as bewildered as they were terrified...

In my mind, it's not impossible that RA forced the abduction and purposefully met up with some really ugly friends under the bridge by design.

The defense can try to separate him from the day, the bridge, the warrants and the evidence all they want but even they can't get him off the bridge at 1:30, not when he himself and at least three witnesses put him there, right on track to be right there when A and L reached the bridge...

That's a big hurdle.

So.... if he was on the bridge at roughly 2:17, forcing them down the hill (to a certain death), then he's guilty as charged. Regardless of whether he did or didn't have help. Doesn't matter how they died, only that they died during the commission of felony kidnapping. He's been rightly charged and IMO will be rightly convicted

Call it what you like but a great deal of time and effort went into the scene what was left behind. Midday. Brazen. Over the course of a long hour. In a public park. In broad daylight. That's fearless.

And frightening as hell.

jmo
 
The defense is saying BB is the witness who saw RA on the bridge then crossed paths moments later with Abby & Libby on their way to the bridge, right? But the defense is claiming that BB described a young guy and is the one who’s report made the YBG sketch, right?

If RA didn’t kill Abby and Libby, then why was he on the bridge? He placed himself on the bridge. He’s the only one who placed themself on the bridge. He’s the only one in Libby’s video on the bridge.

As the killer, why did he place himself on the bridge? I have to think he left DNA or something on the bridge that he didn’t think he could explain away. I just don’t know why he admitted to being on the bridge in 2017 and again in 2022. Why didn’t he just say he walked the trails then left, since we know the 3 witnesses saw him, his phone probably pinged on the trails so he had to account for that. But if he didn’t see BB and she didn’t describe him then why admit to being on the bridge?

My only guess for BB saying she saw a young guy is that maybe she did also see a young guy on the trail that day and that’s who the sketch was based on.
 
Schatz said:
According to the defense memorandum, an FBI BAU profiler said likely practices Nordic beliefs - will try to hunt down the exact phrase momentarily and edit this.

ETA, from page 6-7 of the Defense memo in support of Franks hearing - "According to the summary of Click’s investigation that he attached with his letter, “the Behavioral Analysis Unit (BAU) of the FBI determined that the individual(s) responsible for the homicides were involved in Nordic beliefs.” This was news to the Defense as no member of the Unified Command in charge of the investigation revealed this information to the Defense during recent depositions. This includes Trooper Holeman who told the Defense that he didn’t remember if the FBI’s BAU unit determined one way or the other whether those with Nordic beliefs had been involved in the murders. At least up until the time of this filing, the prosecution has provided no evidence whatsoever of the findings of the FBI’s BAU unit concerning involvement of Odinists in the murders. None. The letter that Click sent to McCleland was the first that the Defense has heard that the FBI actually believed that Odinists were likely involved. In other words, this report contained exculpatory evidence that Unified Command concealed from the Defense. This information was – and is— crucial for Richard Allen’s Defense. Some of this exculpatory evidence in the form of videos was finally released to the Defense on September 8, 2023, over 9 months after Defense counsel entered their appearance."
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was odd to me they said the BAU “determined” this involvement in the beliefs…yeah sometimes profiling is spot on sometimes it is way off…i doubt they would ever use such conclusory language in a report - likely mischaracterization IMO
 
Also just for everyone's mental reference: "Hail Odin" as in "Praise the All Father" would be ᚺᚨᛁᛚ:ᛟᛞᛁ. (Source: Hail odin — ᚺᚨᛁᛚ:ᛟᛞᛁᚾ)
Hagal plus Ansuz would depend on the version of Hagal. It could mean "hail a god" as in "small pellets of falling ice, any deity" if younger futhark ( Haglaz - Wikipedia) or "faith in Nazism, estuary" if the pseudo-rune created by von List ( Hagal (Armanen rune) - Wikipedia )
 
The latest court filing this week by his defense attorneys challenges the evidence gathered against Allen and alleges that “nothing links Richard Allen to any of the Odinite suspects: the same Odinite suspects that evidence strongly supports sacrificed Abby and Libby in some sort of pagan ritual. Richard Allen had nothing to do with this crime, but rather is an innocent man; a patsy for the police…”
www.nbcchicago.com

Attorneys argue white nationalists committed Delphi murders as part of ritual

In newly filed court documents, defense attorneys for Richard Allen allege that he is an “innocent man” and that the murders of two Delphi, Indiana girls – Abigail Williams and Liberty German – were committed by white nationalists as part of a pagan ritual.
www.nbcchicago.com www.nbcchicago.com
 
LunaInvidia said:
Also just for everyone's mental reference: "Hail Odin" as in "Praise the All Father" would be ᚺᚨᛁᛚ:ᛟᛞᛁ. (Source: Hail odin — ᚺᚨᛁᛚ:ᛟᛞᛁᚾ)
Hagal plus Ansuz would depend on the version of Hagal. It could mean "hail a god" as in "small pellets of falling ice, any deity" if younger futhark ( Haglaz - Wikipedia) or "faith in Nazism, estuary" if the pseudo-rune created by von List ( Hagal (Armanen rune) - Wikipedia )
Click to expand...
They have used runic symbolism to create their new narrative for the tabloids.
Has anybody checked whether similar symbols are used in other, not necessarily similar practices?
I'm still considering one that might be specific to the accused and nobody else.
Or he could have just flipped and started throwing things around having accomplished his goal.
We know nothing about his spiritual beliefs or whether he has occult leanings, do we?

Many anti gov groups and their offshoots appropriated symbolism from existing spiritual group systems or teachings.

www.csis.org

The Rise of Far-Right Extremism in the United States

The terrorist attack in New Zealand is part of a global pattern of far-right extremism. Read this November 2018 report on the rise of far-right extremism in the United States and Europe.
www.csis.org www.csis.org

www.splcenter.org

Antigovernment General

Antigovernment groups are part of the antidemocratic hard-right movement. They believe the federal government is tyrannical, and they traffic in conspiracy theories about an illegitimate government of leftist elites seeking a “New World Order.” In addition to groups that generally espouse these...
www.splcenter.org www.splcenter.org

Who is he, really?
What does he believe?
What is his understanding of his rationale for allegedly murdering two kids?
What motivated him?
why?
 
I'm jumping ahead a bit, so I apologize if these points have already been addressed.

1) Re: Sealing/gag order/leaking details of the crime scene: There is nothing wrong with this filing. These statements are being made to the judge, not to the media. They're public because of the constitution. The case isn't sealed (as I understand), so there is nothing wrong with filing something not under seal. You need grounds to get a document sealed. I'm assuming the defense did not want it sealed, so they didn't make that request.

2) Someone asked why no motion to dismiss. We can probably reasonably infer something from these filings -- LE indeed found relevant evidence during the search. Can't kick the case for a lack of evidence without getting that evidence kicked out first. So really, everyone involved probably knows these are wild theories -- their argument is that it wasn't known they were wild theories before the search was conducted.

3) Re: Referring to him as Rick instead of the defendant or Mr. Allen -- Yeah, it's strategic. It's not unprofessional.
 
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r3d-ros3 said:
The document introduces a number of alternative suspects with possible motive and a clearer connection (than RA had) to Libby and Abby, like H and W. H posted photos on Facebook that invoked the crime scene and potential symbolism present at the crime scene, even though this information was not publicly available. He was also interviewed by law enforcement early on as a result of multiple tips received about him. His partner, AH, was also interviewed by LE and offered some interesting information about H and W’s relationship and their interest in "Asatru," which H also mentioned in his interview with LE (page 83 of the doc, if you're interested).

IMO, the introduction of these other suspects casts doubt -- FOR ME -- on RA's involvement in the crime. Of course, we don't have all of the information on what LE found in RA's home. It's possible they possess additional evidence that places him at the crime scene in addition to the bullet (shell casing?) found. It's also possible that they found evidence that shows RA's interest in the ostensible "Nordic beliefs" the symbolism at the crime scene may represent. It sounds like the defense is interested in getting this evidence thrown out, so it also follows that in the absence of all of the information on RA, the defense has manufactured an alternative narrative to distract from this evidence / distract or sway the jury later on. Of course this is a possibility.

The document also suggests that LE's consultation with a professor at Purdue and the FBI's BAU led them to suspect a ritualistic crime, which they were apparently uninterested in following through with. They cleared H, for example, pretty soon after the murders in spite of what I find to be compelling evidence that suggests his involvement in or knowledge about the murders.

FWIW, I find the document to be very silly in places and I also understand their rhetorical moves to cast doubt on LE's narrative and their insistence that they finally caught the guy. Even so, the other suspects introduced in the document, and LE's inability or unwillingness to properly investigate them, creates doubt and is also, unfortunately, what I would characterize as another incredible error on Delphi police's investigation into this crime. This does not make them look good and raises serious questions about the investigation and the current suspect in custody.

All IMO.
Click to expand...

It is ironic that these days Gray Hughes is doggedly comparing the voice of RA with the MHB recording. You see, I remember how at the very beginning, that voice was defined by the LE as the “voice of the devil”. That set the tone for the whole investigation, and now, LE got exactly what they were asking for. The devil? Are there any satanists around? No,but we have Odinists. So Odinists it will be. And now, LE’s own unprofessionalism backfires, because if you allude it was the devil who killed the girls, you set the stage for the followers of some pagan cults, what else can happen?

Personally, I don’t believe in ritualistic killings and the runes. I do believe that a person having a personal investment in one of the girls could stage it as “Odinist cult victims”. So, maybe the defenders are not that wrong in their accusation, and it is even possible that several people were involved. But I do think the murders were targeted. I don’t believe it was “sacrifice a girl” scenario, but “remove the hazard and oh, let’s throw some runes on it” seems quite plausible to me.
 
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