IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

[sunshineray]

Yes and only sheer incompetence stopped this being solved years earlier.

If they had done their job properly this should already be solved and him in jail for Life IMO

I hate having to agree but I do. If RA's last name wasn't also a proper name the mistake probably would have been caught sooner...human error is always a factor. AJMO

 

[schooling]

The reason they even talked to RA in the first place is because he came to tell them he was on the trail that day, at the same time as the girls AND he told them what he was wearing and it was identical to the man in the video. So while many Americans have all those items, it was RA himself that said hey I was there! This I suspect was before the photo and video were released showing the killer. He then came down to the station for a second interview when it was requested and he repeated exactly what he said before and told them again.. I was there, I had on jeans and blue or black jacket with a hood.. I was even on the bridge that day. Then when asked about guns and knives he says yes I have guns and knives at home. So before he had a chance to go home and get rid of things, they applied for that search warrant and the only reason they knew any of that was because RA offered it to them. They didn't go after RA because of what any witness said, they went after RA because he came forward and said I was there and I was in that exact outfit!

Two decades ago that would have been enough to send someone to the chair. It's good that the bar has moved now. So that way we are not incarcerating, or worse executing, innocent people. BUT....in the minds of some anything short of a video of the actual crime being committed by the suspect is not enough.

 

[sunshineray]

One of the few pieces in the defence memorandum that has a ring of truth to it is RAs interview got filed under the name of Richard Allen Whiteman, the last part his address.

So I wonder was his initial interview really misfiled all that time or was it a case that later LE could find no such person as RAM? And how did that happen, did the CO ask to see ID and record it incorrectly, or a clerk input it incorrectly or did RA deliberately skew his name?

Did the memorandum say it was done transposing the CO's report, so clerical not incorrect police reporting?

 

[Tealgrove]

Prosecutors Want Delphi Court Docs Reviewed by Judge Before Public Release

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — The Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office has requested all pleadings and filings in the Delphi murders case should be “sealed for the Court’s Review Before Being Released to the Public.”

wibc.com

“The Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office has requested all pleadings and filings in the Delphi murders case should be “sealed for the Court’s Review Before Being Released to the Public.”..”

TBH I thought this was the protocol. I guess I’m out of the loop.

 

[sunshineray]

TBH I thought this was the protocol. I guess I’m out of the loop.

Guess that's why the memorandum was released, nobody watching.

 

[Vern]

They didn't even spell check it before submission.
I mean FACES

2. That on September 13'", 2023, the Defendant filed an Amended Motionto Suppressthe evidence seized as a resultofthe search warrant3. Thatthe Defense alleges thatthe searchwarrant is unconstitutional because the issuance ofthe search warrant was aresult ofan improper exparte applicationin thatthe Afliant, SheriffTony Liggett, failedto advise the Judge ofmaterial faces and made false and misleading representations withreckless disregard forthe truth and that withoutthese false and misleading r...


It appears they lack experience.

And it appears that a keyboard has a faulty space bar.

Spell Check would not pick up "faces" in lieu of "facts" as they are both actual words.

 

[sunshineray]

I am very interested in the exact reason such an important report was mishandled and by whom.

I always have thought, since learning of the CO's report, why after seeing BG that CO didn't go looking for it and raising the awareness to find it. I mean the picture matched the description RA gave him as well as RA seeing 3 witnesses who came forward with that info and a timeline attached to it. I think there were too many chefs and CO was a low man in the kitchen. Hoping I'm wrong.

 

[Vern]

A few times now I’ve seen it suggested RA may have been drunk at the time of the crime. Is this based on an official doc / statement by LE or just a best guess?

I read this in the context of "sobered up" as in came to his senses/snapped back to reality in the immediate aftermath of the murders not as "sobered up" as in came out of a dunken stupor.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I always have thought, since learning of the CO's report, why after seeing BG that CO didn't go looking for it and raising the awareness to find it. I mean the picture matched the description RA gave him as well as RA seeing 3 witnesses who came forward with that info and a timeline attached to it. I think there were too many chefs and CO was a low man in the kitchen. Hoping I'm wrong.

I think the CO wasn't involved in the investigation, he took the report when it was an "all hands on deck" situation. I think most LE don't really concern themselves with cases they aren't directly related to even in high profile cases, at least in my experience working in roles within LE.

 

[sunshineray]

I think the CO wasn't involved in the investigation, he took the report when it was an "all hands on deck" situation. I think most LE don't really concern themselves with cases they aren't directly related to even in high profile cases, at least in my experience working in roles within LE.

See I think, especially in more rural America, that interviewing/reporting on a man who put himself at the scene, on the bridge then seeing the released photo of BG at the scene, on the bridge in clothes the interviewee described to you makes you VERY related to the case.

Something else had to be involved with that CO not raising the "Hang On" a minute flag. I'm leaning towards too many cooks in the kitchen and one of them disregarding the man and his info somehow. Maybe it was as simple as looking for "Allen" and not finding it then distractions of other tips took over. Maybe that CO didn't feel he could continue pressing the big boys? I don't know, just some thoughts. AJMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

See I think, especially in more rural America, that interviewing/reporting on a man who put himself at the scene, on the bridge then seeing the released photo of BG at the scene, on the bridge in clothes the interviewee described to you makes you VERY related to the case.

Something else had to be involved with that CO not raising the "Hang On" a minute flag. I'm leaning towards too many cooks in the kitchen and one of them disregarding the man and his info somehow. Maybe it was as simple as looking for "Allen" and not finding it then distractions of other tips took over. Maybe that CO didn't feel he could continue pressing the big boys? I don't know, just some thoughts. AJMO

I just don't think the COs probably interacted that much with the ISP, Sheriff's office or city police. They are their own branch. My last job was with the Sheriff's office and a specific branch within it. I rarely dealt with anyone on the Sheriff's office side of things, and then only if I needed a translator. I knew exactly 2 sheriff's deputies by name despite us all being in the same building and on the same floor. I dealt with zero city police, my only dealings with the highway patrol was via email requesting records for DUIs. I had no dealings at all with any DNR, CO, FSR officers at all.

I think just because it was a small town there is the assumption that all the branches worked together and were all in each other's business. But my experience with government, county, and state agencies is they do not work well together and do not communicate well together. I don't even think it's a matter of egos, it's more of they each have policies they follow and they do not align with other agencies.

So unless DD was friends with an investigator that was actively working the case, I can't see him just going in and saying hey I interviewed this guy, whatever happened with it, if he even remembered interviewing RA.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Two decades ago that would have been enough to send someone to the chair. It's good that the bar has moved now. So that way we are not incarcerating, or worse executing, innocent people. BUT....in the minds of some anything short of a video of the actual crime being committed by the suspect is not enough.

I would not send a person to prison for the rest of his life based on flimsy "evidence." For example, I seriously doubt that I would vote to convict on the statements of a bunch of drug addicts/ex-cons/inmates who will say anything to save themselves. In this case, I'd want to see DNA or something really solid. Even the gun/shell casing/bullet are problematic; at the very least, I'd want to see the chain of custody for the items in the search warrant. MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I just don't think the COs probably interacted that much with the ISP, Sheriff's office or city police. They are their own branch. My last job was with the Sheriff's office and a specific branch within it. I rarely dealt with anyone on the Sheriff's office side of things, and then only if I needed a translator. I knew exactly 2 sheriff's deputies by name despite us all being in the same building and on the same floor. I dealt with zero city police, my only dealings with the highway patrol was via email requesting records for DUIs. I had no dealings at all with any DNR, CO, FSR officers at all.

I think just because it was a small town there is the assumption that all the branches worked together and were all in each other's business. But my experience with government, county, and state agencies is they do not work well together and do not communicate well together. I don't even think it's a matter of egos, it's more of they each have policies they follow and they do not align with other agencies.

So unless DD was friends with an investigator that was actively working the case, I can't see him just going in and saying hey I interviewed this guy, whatever happened with it, if he even remembered interviewing RA.

JMO

After seeing the BG photo, I would have hoped he'd remember...but you never know. What sorry circumstances it probably was...supposing in retrospect. I wonder if we'll ever hear about it, from that CO himself. AJMO

 

[TL4S]

See I think, especially in more rural America, that interviewing/reporting on a man who put himself at the scene, on the bridge then seeing the released photo of BG at the scene, on the bridge in clothes the interviewee described to you makes you VERY related to the case.

Something else had to be involved with that CO not raising the "Hang On" a minute flag. I'm leaning towards too many cooks in the kitchen and one of them disregarding the man and his info somehow. Maybe it was as simple as looking for "Allen" and not finding it then distractions of other tips took over. Maybe that CO didn't feel he could continue pressing the big boys? I don't know, just some thoughts. AJMO

This is assuming that at that time, the CO knew the evidence, though. Did he know already what time the girls were on the bridge, abducted, and killed? He made a note to find out who the three females were, so he didn't know about all the witnesses yet. RA didn't describe what he wore to the CO, and the bridge video/picture isn't clear to what the man looked like, so I'm not convinced the CO had any reason to remember speaking to RA. Jmo.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is assuming that at that time, the CO knew the evidence, though. Did he know already what time the girls were on the bridge, abducted, and killed? He made a note to find out who the three females were, so he didn't know about all the witnesses yet. RA didn't describe what he wore to the CO, and the bridge video/picture isn't clear to what the man looked like, so I'm not convinced the CO had any reason to remember speaking to RA. Jmo.

I agree. Those of us who’ve followed the case throughout the years will distinctly recall our frustration because LE was initially very obscure in talking about a timeline. It was a very long time before we even learned such basic information such as what time the girls were dropped off. In those early days, I recall having the impression they were dropped off at about 1pm and were no where to be found at a 5pm pickup time. The only thing made public was the 2:07 SC photos that Libby sent. Even when the drop off and pick up time was clarified many, many pages of these threads were still devoted to trying to figure out when Libby captured the video, what time was DTH spoken, what time the murders might’ve occurred, all that.

Now, looking back we know LE intentionally held back information and the timeline was much tighter than we ever realized. Part of the reason for this might’ve pertained to the 50,000 or so tips that LE received.

Therefore I don’t think the CO would’ve been privy to enough information to have recognized RA’s visit to the trail from 1:30 to 3:30 was critical nor his claim of not seeing the girls possibly was not true. Especially if the interview was conducted during the time the girls were still considered only as missing, by the time he later learned a more precise timeline, he‘d probably forgotten the entire encounter. JMO

 

[Megnut]

Additionally, the CO didn't know that his tip would be misfiled. He'd have every reason to believe it was filed properly and then investigated. You'd think the video of BG would trigger something, but again, he didn't have more to report than he already had.

I can't fathom how it would ever be managed but it's almost like every tip needs to be reported to two separate agencies, multiplying frivolous tips exponentially but maybe somehow securing the right tip, preserving it in the duplicate, should the first one get lost, misfiled, biased away.

The defense is boxed in. If RA left at 1:30, he couldn't have seen the juveniles who saw him. If he was there on the platform after 2, there's no way he didn't see A and L. Critical omission. Smarter to deny seeing ANY juveniles (so as not to get boxed in by times) --

I wonder if we'll ever learn for sure just where he was when A and L were first confronted by him. Did he come up fast from behind? Was he ahead of them, then doubled back, and tripled forward?

We always ask where he was for the bridge photo, almost expecting him to emerge as a pinpoint at the far distance, but what if he crossed the bridge already, entered the bridge while they were just about to reach the end, elbowed past them, walked a short distance away from them, before turning back toward them again? Maybe THAT'S why L started videoing him.

JMO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

The poor judge assigned to this - can you imagine?

 

[DeDee]

Therefore I don’t think the CO would’ve been privy to enough information to have recognized RA’s visit to the trail from 1:30 to 3:30 was critical nor his claim of not seeing the girls possibly was not true. Especially if the interview was conducted during the time the girls were still considered only as missing, by the time he later learned a more precise timeline, he‘d probably forgotten the entire encounter. JMO

< psbm >
I well remember those early days when we knew, that whatever happened to the two best friends, it was a terrifying event for everyone. Due to a lack of official information, the first theory for me was perhaps BG forced the girls into a waiting vehicle, w/ accomplice(s), once they went down the hill and reached the private drive. Then, bc they were not found straight away, it grew into an oh, my, they must have taken them to a barn or somewhere then returned them to the CS site under the cover of darkness. The imagery produced triggered my ptsd. Had to leave WS for a while. It is the reason I don't read or post in their threads often.

However, one of my favorite memories of their friendship was told by Becky. She said Libby would eat dinner while communicating on her personal iPhone with Abby. Even though Abby didn't have a cellphone, she had access to an iPad. It was as if Libby invited Abby to laugh and chat at the Patty's dinner table in the evening's while they were breaking bread together.

It is a point of contention for me that a trained officer, the CO, took a tip from a guy who proclaimed he was on the MHB at the time of their murders, then reported it to proper authorities without ever checking with the authorities to assure himself he'd been heard. When years passed by, wasn't the CO in the least bit curious about the guy on the bridge he'd reported? Why would we expect the CO to forget the watershed encounter when most likely RA was the only "tip" he was ever given during the investigation? Some strange guy walks up to me at the local market to confess he was at the location of a double homicide of children; thereby, leaving an indelible imprint and not something easily forgotten.

 

[MistyWaters]

< psbm >

It is a point of contention for me that a trained officer, the CO, took a tip from a guy who proclaimed he was on the MHB at the time of their murders, then reported it to proper authorities without ever checking with the authorities to assure himself he'd been heard. When years passed by, wasn't the CO in the least bit curious about the guy on the bridge he'd reported? Why would we expect the CO to forget the watershed encounter when most likely RA was the only "tip" he was ever given during the investigation? Some strange guy walks up to me at the local market to confess he was at the location of a double homicide of children; thereby, leaving an indelible imprint and not something easily forgotten.

This might stand to reason if the CO only personally spoke to one person who offered a tip, that being the entire extent of his involvement. Then it would be easy to remember but we don’t know that is so, so I’d give the guy the benefit of a doubt just based on what we do know.

We know that any capacity of LE in the area were called in to support Carroll County PD in the early days because of the overwhelming volume of work that had to be conducted. I think it’d be quite unlikely that any one person providing assistance only interacted with one single person offering information. More than likely it filled their entire days for several weeks.

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

April 13, 2017
2 Months: 16,000 tips and over 500 interviews later still no suspects in Libby & Abby’s murders

 

[O.Incandenza]

This might stand to reason if the CO only personally spoke to one person who offered a tip, that being the entire extent of his involvement. Then it would be easy to remember but we don’t know that is so, so I’d give the guy the benefit of a doubt just based on what we do know.

We know that any capacity of LE in the area were called in to support Carroll County PD in the early days because of the overwhelming volume of work that had to be conducted. I think it’d be quite unlikely that any one person providing assistance only interacted with one single person offering information. More than likely it filled their entire days for several weeks.

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

April 13, 2017
2 Months: 16,000 tips and over 500 interviews later still no suspects in Libby & Abby’s murders

Maybe, but they almost certainly only interacted with one single person who said they were on the bridge that day and looked compatible with the man in the video. Seems like that particular interaction should have stood out with big flashing lights around it.