IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

[MistyWaters]

No different really to the P then. Witness sightings that don't line up with one another, two sketches of entirely different people, unproven casing attribution to RA etc.

I wouldn't single either side out for that kind of conflation, its kinda par for the course of trying somebody.

Even you've gotten in on the act -

As it’s been stated all along, the two sketches are not photographs of “entirely different people”. I‘m not sure why you’d think LE released them expecting an exact resemblance, as they discounted that several times.

They‘re simply a tool to aid LE in seeking tips. While neither may not be introduced as evidence, the person who assisted in the sketches is at liberty to cast total doubt on her recollect. “I really don’t get a good look at his face, I was just guessing”.

 

[iamshadow21]

As it’s been stated all along, the two sketches are not photographs of “entirely different people”. I‘m not sure why you’d think LE released them expecting an exact resemblance, as they discounted that several times.

They‘re simply a tool to aid LE in seeking tips. While neither may not be introduced as evidence, the person who assisted in the sketches is at liberty to cast total doubt on her recollect. “I really don’t get a good look at his face, I was just guessing”.

Yeah, look at the multitude of sketches of Joseph DeAngelo sometime. They all look so different, and yet each has a little something in them of the man. But they're not evidence like a photograph. They're each a sketch by an artist of a fleeting impression someone else had of a stranger. And each is hindered by the subject's memory and the artist's skill.

MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

Yeah, look at the multitude of sketches of Joseph DeAngelo sometime. They all look so different, and yet each has a little something in them of the man. But they're not evidence like a photograph. They're each a sketch by an artist of a fleeting impression someone else had of a stranger. And each is hindered by the subject's memory and the artist's skill.

MOO

Exactly, and in this case two factors came into play -
- the witness did not see the murders being committed nor have reason to realize how important what they observed would become later on, so I doubt at the time they be 100% focused on noticing every specific detail of the man’s face.
- the sketches were not immediately drawn after the crime took place, when memories are the freshest, as the bodies weren’t discovered until the next day.

I think it’s truly remarkable anyone was able to aid in a sketch under those circumstances. I quite sure I couldn’t have.

 

[photographer4]

We know the apparent fatal injury to each girl, but we really know nothing of any other injuries. I would like to think the killer didn't hurt the girls until the quick final cut, but unfortunately, I doubt that. He had over an hour with them. It infuriates me.

I am still perplexed by this statement: "The redacted search warrant didn’t specify what was missing and noted that the “rest of their clothing was recovered.” There were no signs of a “struggle or fight.”

Search warrant: Delphi killer took souvenir, may have ‘staged’ murder scene

DELPHI, Ind. – A search warrant reveals new details of the investigation into the 2017 murders of Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi. According to a search warrant obtained by the Murde…

fox59.com

I wonder if that means there are no other injuries to the bodies? Or if that means at the physical location itself, there were no signs of a struggle or fight?

 

[Bergmann]

All the DA needs is for the jury to see that RA is BG and said "Guys down the hill."

Small matter of proof but yes I can't dispute your logic, I agree if P prove RA must be BG then he's going to get convicted of felony murder.

At the moment the evidence as presented is not cast iron enough for me, but you know, with a very persuasive prosecutor, and a jury walking into court half thinking that it must be RA, I could could see a conviction with what they've got being eminently possible.

I wouldn't agree that was sound and I'm not sure that the whole truth would be surfaced in that way, but any conviction of RA would probably make a lot of people happy regardless.

 

[pseudo_hum]

Exactly, and in this case two factors came into play -
- the witness did not see the murders being committed nor have reason to realize how important what they observed would become later on, so I doubt at the time they be 100% focused on noticing every specific detail of the man’s face.
- the sketches were not immediately drawn after the crime took place, when memories are the freshest, as the bodies weren’t discovered until the next day.

I think it’s truly remarkable anyone was able to aid in a sketch under those circumstances. I quite sure I couldn’t have.

Agreed.
IMO, the different sketches are evidence of LE needing a lead. I think they were at a "dead-end" in their investigation and they were trying to generate some leads. Who can blame them?

 

[Boxer]

Small matter of proof but yes I can't dispute your logic, I agree if P prove RA must be BG then he's going to get convicted of felony murder.

At the moment the evidence as presented is not cast iron enough for me, but you know, with a very persuasive prosecutor, and a jury walking into court half thinking that it must be RA, I could could see a conviction with what they've got being eminently possible.

I wouldn't agree that was sound and I'm not sure that the whole truth would be surfaced in that way, but any conviction of RA would probably make a lot of people happy regardless.

Once kidnapped it was the gates hell. Particulary merciless murders.

 

[CGBSpender]

I wonder if that means there are no other injuries to the bodies? Or if that means at the physical location itself, there were no signs of a struggle or fight?

The text of the document itself reads, "LG and AW had no visible signs of a struggle or fight." I took that to mean possibly no visible defensive wounds on either victim.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> Actually nothing in his face is looking just like BG, but the cloudy look of his eyes remembers of OldBG. MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

As it’s been stated all along, the two sketches are not photographs of “entirely different people”. I‘m not sure why you’d think LE released them expecting an exact resemblance, as they discounted that several times.

They‘re simply a tool to aid LE in seeking tips. While neither may not be introduced as evidence, the person who assisted in the sketches is at liberty to cast total doubt on her recollect. “I really don’t get a good look at his face, I was just guessing”.

Interestingly, they said this "not a photograph" only about the second sketch (YBG), we were offered. Afaik, LE never said it, when they made the first sketch (OBG) public. I wonder ....

 

[MistyWaters]

Interestingly, they said this "not a photograph" only about the second sketch (YBG), we were offered. Afaik, LE never said it, when they made the first sketch (OBG) public. I wonder ....

You thought it was a photo??

Composite sketch released in Delphi killings

Police released a composite sketch and new information Monday in the killings of Carroll County teenagers Libby German, 14, and Abby Williams, 13. The new information comes five months after

www.tribstar.com

“Police released a composite sketch……..

*****

Indiana police explain why there are 2 different sketches in Delphi murders case

Police say they're still searching for anyone who may be connected to the murders.

abc7chicago.com

“The Indiana State Police superintendent explains the reason for the different sketches.

"I think that was the absolute right decision at the time to do what they did. I've always said that the two sketches are simply sketches. They are not photographs. It's a piece of an investigative puzzle, " said Superintendent Doug Carter.”

 

[Niner]

Thanks @FrostedGlass ! Finally!

 

[FrostedGlass]

Thanks @FrostedGlass ! Finally!

Did you notice it will be in Allen Superior court? Maybe she decided to let cameras in.

 

[FromGermany1]

You thought it was a photo??

Composite sketch released in Delphi killings

Police released a composite sketch and new information Monday in the killings of Carroll County teenagers Libby German, 14, and Abby Williams, 13. The new information comes five months after

www.tribstar.com

“Police released a composite sketch……..

*****

Indiana police explain why there are 2 different sketches in Delphi murders case

Police say they're still searching for anyone who may be connected to the murders.

abc7chicago.com

“The Indiana State Police superintendent explains the reason for the different sketches.

"I think that was the absolute right decision at the time to do what they did. I've always said that the two sketches are simply sketches. They are not photographs. It's a piece of an investigative puzzle, " said Superintendent Doug Carter.”

bbm
Oh, okay, he said it. Thanks! But I read it several times, always related to only the 2. sketch (YBG).

No, I don't think, it was a photo (YBG).

 

[MistyWaters]

Did you notice it will be in Allen Superior court? Maybe she decided to let cameras in.

Would that happen while a gag order is in place? Might just be the result of the Judge having a full schedule.

 

[O.Incandenza]

The Autopsies - Roland Kohr, MD performed both Abby's & Libby's autopsies in Terre Haute, IN.
The autopsies are sealed as this is an active investigation. When the autopsy was sealed by the court, these were the stated reasons:

• The details related to the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German, if they remain confidential, make it easier for investigators to recognize a false confession as it is improbable for an innocent person to accurately describe the details of the deaths without personal knowledge.
• Investigators are able to maintain a tactical advantage when speaking with a suspect if the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German are not made public. ..

So the obvious question is have LE sought to (or plan to) interview RA after his much publicised recorded confessions from prison, to check their veracity on this basis?

Unfortunately that may not work in this case since he had apparently already seen some of the discovery when he confessed. If the crime scene and autopsy reports were in that discovery then he would have potentially known those details, guilty or innocent.

 

[Niner]

Did you notice it will be in Allen Superior court? Maybe she decided to let cameras in.

Yes - I saw that! LOL!

 

[Jade]

Small matter of proof but yes I can't dispute your logic, I agree if P prove RA must be BG then he's going to get convicted of felony murder.

At the moment the evidence as presented is not cast iron enough for me, but you know, with a very persuasive prosecutor, and a jury walking into court half thinking that it must be RA, I could could see a conviction with what they've got being eminently possible.

I wouldn't agree that was sound and I'm not sure that the whole truth would be surfaced in that way, but any conviction of RA would probably make a lot of people happy regardless.

As someone who believes RA is BG I take exception to the thought, on WS especially, that anyone would want a conviction that wasn’t just and that would make anyone happy.

I doubt it would make anyone happy if there was only a lesser charge for two innocent young girls murdered in cold blood.

Having been a long time WSer following trials I know to think that anything would be cast iron enough at this time hasn’t been following many cases.

It all comes out in trial; things are never what they seem, reporting never quite accurate, and in court witness are surprising.

Why would you take a shot at a Jury?

Why assume they would not do their duty as selected and sworn?

This is the long haul and sometimes it’s never cast iron even at the end.


All imo

 

[texaslb218]

As someone who believes RA is BG I take exception to the thought, on WS especially, that anyone would want a conviction that wasn’t just and that would make anyone happy.

I doubt it would make anyone happy if there was only a lesser charge for two innocent young girls murdered in cold blood.

Having been a long time WSer following trials I know to think that anything would be cast iron enough at this time hasn’t been following many cases.

It all comes out in trial; things are never what they seem, reporting never quite accurate, and in court witness are surprising.

Why would you take a shot at a Jury?

Why assume they would not do their duty as selected and sworn?

This is the long haul and sometimes it’s never cast iron even at the end.


All imo

We joined WS about the same time! Whew! So many high-passion court times.

 

[MassGuy]

#Delphi hearing on 10/19/23 in Allen County "likely" to be televised. Multiple requests already received. Allen is one of the Indiana counties that routinely allows cameras.

https://x.com/newsybarbara/status/1712530636316049910?s=46&t=1LeaTK_fug_ONwN11qOyUw