IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[gitana1]

Photographer captured beautiful pic of the courthouse. I love to see the courthouses in all counties. moo


Richard Allen, the man accused of killing Libby German and Abby Williams, will be in a Allen Co courtroom for today’s hearing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1714940038415307188

I love the green marble/stone inside it! Gorgeous.

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe it’s just me but I’m doubting the new Defense Counsel will actually seek advice from Allen’s former defense team as the Judge stated they’ve offered to cooperate.

Advice, probably not but they can certainly walk them through what's been done and especially give a heads up on the inclinations of the client in different matters OR I suppose going into talk to RA cold turkey is another option. JMO, I think the first option is more logical at this point and after all this mess.

 

[gitana1]

All reports are that they quit, even though Allen wanted them to stay. I don't believe the court can force them to continue to represent them if they are adamant about quitting. That's an appellate issue for sure if a conviction is found in this trial.

Or maybe the Judge ordered them off the case based upon any findings by the investigation to the Defense leak?

moo

The court could force them to continue. Especially in the absence of a motion to withdraw.

 

[sunshineray]

Wait. What in earth happened? So I got that there was a leak that appeared to have come from a defense associate. Who killed themself?

Lots or stuff going on in this case! I think the defense and the defendant were probably mulling over a withdrawal. I don’t put it past the judge to encourage it. If his own attorneys messed up this badly, he could have grounds for ineffective assistance of counsel, before the trial even started.

But my sense was that the leak was intentional and meant to poison potential jurors.

The person who died was one of (we don't know exactly how many) the people the insider/friend of the defense leaked the crime scene photos to, very tragic.

 

[gitana1]

When it came out that the crime scene evidence leak came from connections to the defense, I pondered if it was a ploy to get taken off the case. That the evidence against RA was just so damning that they couldn't defend him. The fact that they've now quit makes me lean back to believing RA is indeed the right guy.

They’re used to that though. (But I see no reason to doubt RA is it).

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Wait. What in earth happened? So I got that there was a leak that appeared to have come from a defense associate. Who killed themself?

Lots or stuff going on in this case! I think the defense and the defendant were probably mulling over a withdrawal. I don’t put it past the judge to encourage it. If his own attorneys messed up this badly, he could have grounds for ineffective assistance of counsel, before the trial even started.

But my sense was that the leak was intentional and meant to poison potential jurors.

—A former employee of Baldwin who is still a big buddy of his somehow got access to the crime scene photos. I guess just because he was a friend of Baldwin. Violation of the protective order, pretty sure. He took photos of the photos. (Who would leave him alone with them). Who indeed.
—Baldwin’s buddy sends photos to a guy active in Delphi FB groups. He is pro defense.
—FB guy sends photos to some other FB aquaintances including somebody known to the Murder Sheet podcast people.
—MS friend freaks out, sends stuff to MS folks and asks them to alert LE, which they do.
*****
—-FB guy is the one who committed suicide last week.
—-not sure who sent the photos to some podcasters and bloggers

 

[sunshineray]

The court could force them to continue. Especially in the absence of a motion to withdraw.

Well one lawyer, Attorney Baldwin, did fill out the withdraw paperwork and give to the judge. The judge mentioned in court today the other lawyer, Attorney Rossi, said he would be filling it out and turning it in soon. I can't remember if judge said tomorrow?

 

[gitana1]

Is it possible they were given the option to withdraw or be withdrawn? Like “we will allow you to resign to save face”? Idk if that is even legal, just trying to stop my head from spinning.

I absolutely think this is likely. The speed of what happened as well as how vigorously they appeared to want to defend against being forced to withdraw, makes me think that indeed, the judge told them they needed to do it or heads would roll in a manner that would end their careers.

 

[gitana1]

We will eventually be able to see if they are disbarred, but will we ever know if they are sanctioned is my big question?

Those records are usually public.

 

[mrjitty]

I absolutely think this is likely. The speed of what happened as well as how vigorously they appeared to want to defend against being forced to withdraw, makes me think that indeed, the judge told them they needed to do it or heads would roll in a manner that would end their careers.

But if the Judge had that in mind, why would they all be set up to argue a hearing?

I wonder if instead something happened last minute such that they had to ask the Judge in chambers to withdraw. I mean it's odd none of this happened in the Court room?

I was wondering if maybe related to the leak, Baldwin now has an impossible conflict?

 

[mrjitty]

Well one lawyer, Attorney Baldwin, did fill out the withdraw paperwork and give to the judge. The judge mentioned in court today the other lawyer, Attorney Rossi, said he would be filling it out and turning it in soon. I can't remember if judge said tomorrow?

I thought Baldwin only made the application orally. As far as we know, nothing has been filed.

 

[sunshineray]

I absolutely think this is likely. The speed of what happened as well as how vigorously they appeared to want to defend against being forced to withdraw, makes me think that indeed, the judge told them they needed to do it or heads would roll in a manner that would end their careers.

Watch the short video, 4 mins I think, of the judge today. She was just totally exasperated with the whole situation. She actually muttered something under her breath at one point.

It's on Fox 59 online

 

[Trublue21]

But the prosecution has the same crime scene photos correct? How do we know it wasn’t someone from their office who leaked this information? There’s some shady stuff going on, I doubt RA even makes it to trial.

 

[sunshineray]

I thought Baldwin only made the application orally. As far as we know, nothing has been filed.

I thought the judge said he signed? I could be remembering wrong though.

 

[gitana1]

“The attorney’s trust and office were violated without his knowledge.”

I just would like to say that IMO, Baldwin is no victim here. He has a professional duty to secure his office and the contents inside to protect client records, including his computer, and it appears that duty was violated. It happened under his watch.

Agreed. It makes no sense that they’d allow friends to have access to their office and sensitive evidence, during a case of this magnitude. I don’t know that it was an accident though.

To me it shows the judges incompetence. She should have made the clerk hold all filings for her review prior to publication especially after issuing a gag order. She is in over her head as much as the prosecutor and LE is.

If the detective lied or mislead in the SWA and they don't throw it out, the fix is in. If LE can't follow the law and rules, then they can't expect the public to be able to either. I believe they rushed to make an arrest prior to the election. What was the hurry? RA wasn't going anywhere. He owned a house, had a job and was established in the community. I also think the unspent round analysis is hocus pocus and junk science. IMO, they are a long way from proving beyond a reasonable doubt that RA committed this crime especially if the courts act with ethics and integrity instead of being in bed with the state.

Nothing suggests to me that the judge is incompetent or over her head. She is exceedingly qualified. Her experience level is through the roof.

Not many judges would expect an attorney to flout their gag order in such a way. I don’t think most would even consider it a possibility. It’s bizarre.

 

[gitana1]

But the prosecution has the same crime scene photos correct? How do we know it wasn’t someone from their office who leaked this information? There’s some shady stuff going on, I doubt RA even makes it to trial.

He will make it to trial. There is zero to suggest the state was involved here.

 

[sunshineray]

But the prosecution has the same crime scene photos correct? How do we know it wasn’t someone from their office who leaked this information? There’s some shady stuff going on, I doubt RA even makes it to trial.

The person who gave it to MS and asked them to inform LE gave a lot of texting documentation on who gave him the photos (this person has since died tragically). MS did some digging on that person's social media and found Attorney Baldwin's good friend who used to work for him. The rest, as far as what RA's attorneys told the judge, don't know that part of it.

 

[SkyBoomer]

I doubt it.

If the judge wanted them removed from the case, then I think she would have done it publicly. Threatening an attorney with something privately in order to get them to 'voluntarily' withdraw would be pretty unethical.

Moreover, it would be really strange to call a public hearing, approve cameras in the courtroom, make it open to the news media, have the victims' and defendant's family come, etc if her intention was just to force the defense counsel to withdraw beforehand.

But equally strange for a defense team to do the same….nothing makes sense.

 

[gitana1]

I doubt it.

Plus, I don't know how abruptly withdrawing from representation could possibly help that. If anything it would make it worse. They have a duty to represent their client, and abruptly withdrawing in the middle of evidence motions is kind of sketchy.

My purely speculative guess is that they are just overwhelmed by the case. Even leaving aside the content, the Franks memo was bizarre as a legal document. It neglected to lay out the applicable legal standards, and that doesn't seem to have been a conscious decision given the supplemental memo they filed later. Combine that with the leaks and it seems like a defense team that was struggling with the scope & pressure of this case.

Edited to add: also, a judge can't disbar a lawyer.

True. A judge can’t disbar an attorney like that. But a judge can file a complaint against an attorney with the state bar and that would carry a ton of weight.

 

[sunshineray]

Agreed. It makes no sense that they’d allow friends to have access to their office and sensitive evidence, during a case of this magnitude. I don’t know that it was an accident though.



Nothing suggests to me that the judge is incompetent or over her head. She is exceedingly qualified. Her experience level is through the roof.

Not many judges would expect an attorney to flout their gag order in such a way. I don’t think most would even consider it a possibility. It’s bizarre.

The defense did leak other info this past Spring and then that Franks memorandum, with vivid crime scene descriptions which was subsequently sealed, after the fact. Two strikes and then BAM, leaked crime scene photos of two murdered children. After the two strikes she must have worried what the defense was capable of but no, she couldn't have ever thought this mess was coming. JMO