IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[tlcya]

Preface: I haven't seen the crime scene phots or listened to MS.

Is it possible the photos do not support the allegations in the memo supporting the former D's Franks motion and Baldwin quit because his long time associate leaked them to highlight this?

Just throwing stuff at the wall because I a still reeling from yesterday's abrupt twist.

 

[Emma Peel]

Adding ... JMHO ... cynical thought bubble *theory* :
After getting NEW information from Prosecution as to LE investigation, team Baldwin & Co. caucused and saw an opportunity for their client, RA, to argue that the LEAK has prejudiced his trial ... and realized that to argue that ... RA would need counsel uninvolved in the LEAK. So they withdrew, with intention to fully participate in transferring case to new counsel.

Ugh, I really don't think that's what went down ... but ... I put on the defense hat to search for a way for defense to make lemonade out of this massive lemon they managed to throw into RA's defense house of horrors. Plus I was always thinking that ... in spite of slowing down his case ... it might help RA to have a fresh start.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Even with defense attys, see how easy it was to put a man in prison without a trial. For a year. In solitary confinement. For his own good. When there are other options.

What were the other options?
(not saying that to be contrary, I’m genuinely curious)

 

[Observer33]

The judge should not permit the defense to resign. I think they will now appoint a patsie to make it easier on the prosecution.

 

[CGBSpender]

The D had already laid out details from the scenes in the D memo, to try to queer the pitch with doubt and also to try to support their conclusion of a ritualistic killing (far fetched but not the point here). The last thing D need are CS photos out there whilst the only guy in the frame is their client.

You've got me thinking...I wonder when the D became aware of the leak, and the extent of it? Stuff appears to have been leaking quite frequently in the last couple of months on other social media platforms. Was that oddly written long rushed memo filed in the dark of night by the D intended (in whole or in part) as an attempt at damage control? In other words...if you know certain client docs have been leaked from your office, and that info is going to find its way into the public realm...is your best option at that point to put as much of that information out there yourself...and spin it as much as possible in a way that advocates for your client to minimize the damage it might do?

JMO

 

[Observer33]

Approx 90% of cases never make it to court because D advise ‘they’ve got you, best option is to plea..’

Of the remaining 10% there’s clearly a proportion of cases where D behave that way.

But I wouldn’t tar all D for the behaviour of an unscrupulous few.

In the same way I wouldn’t characterise all P as unscrupulous just because a few have used various underhand tactics to get a conviction at all costs.

It is more like 3% go to trial. Only 2% of federal cases go to trial.

 

[Tealgrove]

Preface: I haven't seen the crime scene phots or listened to MS.

Is it possible the photos do not support the allegations in the memo supporting the former D's Franks motion and Baldwin quit because his long time associate leaked them to highlight this?

Just throwing stuff at the wall because I a still reeling from yesterday's abrupt twist.

Now there’s a thought!

 

[Observer33]

Whatever your POV on this case, yesterday was a massive set back for justice all round.

No justice yet for Abby, Libby and their families; and the accused still in prison and likely for some time to come before any trial. The truth of what happened and why is still unproven.

None of this is great.

I did say a while back that if Baldwin and Rozzi were replaced for whatever reason then that might not be a bad thing in the light of the circus they helped to create which serves neither the victims nor RA as the accused. Hopefully the next appointed D will conduct a more sober and professional job of representing RA in a manner befitting the seriousness of this case.

As I've said any number of times, with my hypothetical D hat on I can see a way of defending RA in court and establishing more than reasonable doubt over the evidence presented to date, without recourse to sensationalising and other high risk tactics. YMMV etc.

(I have also hypothesised as to how I could convict RA as P with the same evidence! Hence my own doubts as to the truth and outcome of this case without further more compelling evidence, I am unwilling to declare guilt or innocence).

Looking forward to the process getting back to some semblance of normality and professional rigour.

I disagree. RA needs a zealous defense like B & R were giving him. We don't need a patsie that will make the judge and prosecutors job easier.

 

[Betty P]

Yes and credit to Gull's handling of this yesterday. Whatever discussions happened in chambers and whatever was in those late filings certainly tipped the plan for the hearing completely on its head.

The trial date of Jan '24 was never going to happen anyway but now I would be surprised to see D ready much before this time next year (assuming it is still goes to trial).

JMO, IANAL, it seems when its going to take a while for a case like this to go to trial, it really is important to have a good gag order and keep evidence sealed. So many pre-trial hearings offer great opportunities to sneak in evidence.

 

[MistyWaters]

It’s becoming noticeable by the defense attorneys taking responsibility for the leak, albeit minimizing it, there is little or no public curiosity let alone anger toward the identity of Baldwin’s ‘friend’ who allegedly snookered him by stealing and then leaking copies of crime scene pics and future defense strategy.

If Baldwin is indeed innocent, I would expect both attorneys will be aggressively pursuing criminal charges and suing this ”M” character for data theft and for damaging their reputations. If that doesn’t occur it gives the appearance they were complicit. JMO

 

[Betty P]

What were the other options?
(not saying that to be contrary, I’m genuinely curious)

See if there's another county jail that has better accommodations to keep RA secure and safe from other prisoners? IIRC, his safety among other prisoners was a concern, as was his mental health problems, correct? Perhaps there's a larger county jail in an urban area that has better facilities to isolate prisoners. JMO

 

[Justice101]

Preface: I haven't seen the crime scene phots or listened to MS.

Is it possible the photos do not support the allegations in the memo supporting the former D's Franks motion and Baldwin quit because his long time associate leaked them to highlight this?

Just throwing stuff at the wall because I a still reeling from yesterday's abrupt twist.

Yep. the way the photos were described it would be A LONG STRETCH to say they look like ritualistic and the blood on the tree does not look like a F

 

[FrostedGlass]

What were the other options?
(not saying that to be contrary, I’m genuinely curious)

They had him in White Co. jail, after he was in Carroll Co. and before they sent him to prison.
Then Cass Co. agreed to take him. IMO they really don't want to find an option; for whatever reason.

Look at all the child predators of every level we have in county prisons.

 

[Observer33]

I wonder is solitary confinement really a bad thing considering the class of available ‘roommates‘?

Take some time to read about the effects solitary confinement. RA could have been confessing because of the conditions in an attempt to get out of solitary confinement. I have seen it first hand and you can't image what it does to a hardened criminal let alone a first time, unconvicted, person.

 

[Betty P]

I disagree. RA needs a zealous defense like B & R were giving him. We don't need a patsie that will make the judge and prosecutors job easier.

IANAL, but most judges don't like to see verdicts in cases they've handled overturned on appeal. Especially in death penalty cases, the judges I've watched were very careful to treat defendants well, to ensure a fair trial. They let them wear street clothes, use restraints they can wear under their clothing, make sure they've been able to meet as needed with counsel, etc.

 

[Justice101]

I disagree. RA needs a zealous defense like B & R were giving him. We don't need a patsie that will make the judge and prosecutors job easier.

I disagree. Outlandish claims and numerous motions to suppress evidence create a problem with credibility.

The only thing they can really use in court was the results on the ejected bullet. It's not 100% proof, more like 90%... but that was the only thing they could hang their hat on. They didn't have much to work with.

 

[Observer33]

They had him in White Co. jail, after he was in Carroll Co. and before they sent him to prison.
Then Cass Co. agreed to take him. IMO they really don't want to find an option; for whatever reason.
Look at all the child predators of every level we have in county prisons.

Funny thing is, nearly all pretrial detention is in county jails. The Hollandsburg murderers were held in county jail until convicted as was the Speedway bomber. The state wanted him in prison, in solitary confinement, to break him down and hoped he would confess. There really is no tangible evidence that he committed these murders.

 

[Observer33]

IANAL, but most judges don't like to see verdicts in cases they've handled overturned on appeal. Especially in death penalty cases, the judges I've watched were very careful to treat defendants well, to ensure a fair trial. They let them wear street clothes, use restraints they can wear under their clothing, make sure they've been able to meet as needed with counsel, etc.

This case has been different including placing RA in solitary confinement in a state prison. They aren't interested in fairness.

 

[Betty P]

Take some time to read about the effects solitary confinement. RA could have been confessing because of the conditions in an attempt to get out of solitary confinement. I have seen it first hand and you can't image what it does to a hardened criminal let alone a first time, unconvicted, person.

Don't some jails have cells where the prisoner is alone in a cell, but not isolated? They maintain a schedule to allow them out to access recreation areas, showers, etc. but where they don't come in physical contact w/ other inmates. Solitary confinement in some cases is sensory and sleep deprivation. That shouldn't be used just to keep an inmate who is awaiting trial safe from other inmates. JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

The ex-defence acknowledged the confessions occurred in legal filings. Why would they do that if didn’t happen?

“Allen’s defense team argued the confession couldn't be taken as truth given Allen’s deteriorating mental and physical health while in prison.”

Defense attorneys for Richard Allen withdraw representation just before October 19 hearing

It’s been nearly a year since Indiana State Police first announced an arrest in the 2017 murders of 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi, Indiana. On Thursday, the suspect in the murders, Richard Allen, has a status hearing in Allen...

www.abc57.com