IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[Inthedetails]

Well.

I think defense attorneys do encourage the idea you can get away with the crime instead of saying let's do whats right.

The defense attorney's job is to force the government (the prosecution) to prove the case.

Prosecutor: Joe Meany murdered!

Defense: Prove it.

The defense's job is, essentially, to say "prove it" to the government. If we didn't have defense attorneys, the government could make allegations and take people's liberty away without being held to the law.

When looking at individual cases, it can sometimes look like the defense attorneys are helping clients "get away" with crimes, but the bigger picture is they are preventing the government from "getting away" with allegations that don't hold up to the law.

jmo

 

[girlhasnoname]

Is it at all possible that Baldwin's attorney's letter represented what Baldwin (and Rozzi) felt about staying on the case, but RA himself wanted them replaced?

The letter Baldwin submitted was fighting to stay on the case saying that Allen himself wanted them to and they had developed a significant 'bond'. HLN had that filing on their show, I'm going to see if I can find it.

MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

Defence attorneys are professionals and shouldn’t have to be babysat. Something went sideways in this case and I don’t think we know the full story yet, if we ever will.

I know this sounds kind of crazy but from time to time I’ve wondered if they were even involved in the memo that was filed. The writing style was clearly not up to the typical standard of legalese. Now that we know the office security was lax or nonexistent nothing would really surprise me.

Let’s go crazy then.

Maybe it was Baldwin’s friend who wrote the memorandum and was given access to the Discovery in order to put it together. Maybe Baldwin really didn’t know that his friend had taken the photos.

Doesn’t matter. This was all on Baldwin in the end anyway.

 

[Inthedetails]

Let’s go crazy then.

Maybe it was Baldwin’s friend who wrote the memorandum and was given access to the Discovery in order to put it together. Maybe Baldwin really didn’t know that his friend had taken the photos.

Doesn’t matter. This was all on Baldwin in the end anyway.

The whole process of the leak is just one disturbing disappointment after another.

If I have this right, the lawyers didn't keep the crime-scene documents secure. An unsavory character took photos. That character gave the photos to someone else. That someone else gave them to another someone. And that other someone sent them to youtubers. At least the youtubers called the cops! (Good on them!)

That's not just "a leak." That is a chain of people willing to be involved in misconduct.

I'm loathe to jump to conspiracies, but my mind goes to the Murdaugh case and its complicated web of corruption and crimes. I wonder if this leak in Indiana wasn't so much about the Delphi case specifically but a way to blackmail or get revenge for something else. (Not saying that is true....just wondering.)


jmopinion, thinking aloud

 

[TL4S]

The letter Baldwin submitted was fighting to stay on the case saying that Allen himself wanted them to and they had developed a significant 'bond'. HLN had that filing on their show, I'm going to see if I can find it.

MOO

Thank you. I didn't have a lot of time yesterday to look over that letter, so I'll have to reread! My impression on first glance was that Baldwin's attorney stated there was a bond, and the reasons Baldwin should stay, but I figured Baldwin's attorney can really only speak for Baldwin, not RA, since he's not representing RA. I'm so curious what happened!

 

[Bergmann]

It has never added up to me why some people might think that there's any advantage to the D in leaking these photos into the public domain.

To be clear I'm not saying they're not culpable for the leak - they are, it's on them and they've just begun to pay the price in terms of now being off the case. IMO this is not a matter for celebration. Whatever you think of these guys, and I don't care either way - they worked hard for their client (not saying always smart!).

D lawyers expend a huge amount of energy trying to do the exact opposite! They DON'T want the public (typically the jurors) seeing these awful crime scenes because of the emotional charge it brings and then feelings (something must be done/ avenge the crime) etc which can start to outweigh the calmer rational response. It happens every single case of this kind - P want them seen obviously, D don't. 9/10 P get their way.

The D had already laid out details from the scenes in the D memo, to try to queer the pitch with doubt and also to try to support their conclusion of a ritualistic killing (far fetched but not the point here). The last thing D need are CS photos out there whilst the only guy in the frame is their client.

Like I keep saying, this whole thing needs a proper investigation from chain of transfer, to monies/ favours changing hands. Something in this does not make sense unless you're just wanting to interpret it into a preconceived narrative. JMO folks.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Once new attys are appointed and say they shift gears on defense strategy--will this not look at least a little stinky considering RA's prior defense felt "coerced" to withdraw?

It might. But the previous defense infused a very stinky alternative theory with the Odin angle. There are other, much better SODDI defenses.

So the stinks may cancel each other out.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

It has never added up to me why some people might think that there's any advantage to the D in leaking these photos into the public domain.

To be clear I'm not saying they're not culpable for the leak - they are, it's on them and they've just begun to pay the price in terms of now being off the case. IMO this is not a matter for celebration. Whatever you think of these guys, and I don't care either way - they worked hard for their client (not saying always smart!).

D lawyers expend a huge amount of energy trying to do the exact opposite! They DON'T want the public (typically the jurors) seeing these awful crime scenes because of the emotional charge it brings and then feelings (something must be done/ avenge the crime) etc which can start to outweigh the calmer rational response. It happens every single case of this kind - P want them seen obviously, D don't. 9/10 P get their way.

The D had already laid out details from the scenes in the D memo, to try to queer the pitch with doubt and also to try to support their conclusion of a ritualistic killing (far fetched but not the point here). The last thing D need are CS photos out there whilst the only guy in the frame is their client.

Like I keep saying, this whole thing needs a proper investigation from chain of transfer, to monies/ favours changing hands. Something in this does not make sense unless you're just wanting to interpret it into a preconceived narrative. JMO folks.

I'm suspecting that the "leak" was to damage the lawyers, not help or hurt the case. At this point, that's the only thing that makes sense of why the leak happened and why the lawyers suddenly withdrew.

Speculation only, subject to change as we learn more.

jmo

 

[Emma Peel]

That's the most believable scenario IMO.

Or ... possibly ...

the Defense was confronted with a conflict of interest they did not know about until Prosecution showed up with LE's investigation report on the LEAK.

This conflict came from new information for both Defense and the Court (received long after the Court opened the hearing to cameras and ordered RA be moved to appear in Court).

The Court had indicated the hearing would address the memo from Defense on the LEAK, and an expected letter in response from Prosecution. The Prosecution may have had the info asserting the conflict, but did not share it in advance ... Baldwin's 10 AM filing didn't leave much time for Prosecution to file a counter argument.

We haven't seen that expected Prosecution's letter in response, and any supporting docs to that letter, released by the Court. Will we see it appear on the Docket? Or will it be sealed?

Baldwin orally withdrew in chambers, with Baldwin's own attorney in chambers - an abrupt change.
What new info came to light to change Baldwin's motion to remain to an immediate withdrawal? All I can think is ... the Prosecutor brought in that information.

This is why I'm guessing there was some kind of new information - in writing - brought in by the Prosecution that led to Baldwin's abrupt oral withdrawal in chambers. Baldwin's oral withdrawal was accepted ... because of something that was already in writing that forced the withdrawal.

If Prosecution's letter reported that the LEAK investigation conducted by LE is ongoing, and that LE investigation to date has determined that Defense remains a subject of that investigation, and that charges may be pending ... the Defense's continuing representation of Allen would be under a cloud of direct conflict.

This could also explain Rizzo's withdrawal announcement (expected in writing, eventually) as an LE witness with an investigation involving the RA proceedings, this could explain the Defense Team's expressed commitment to assist with transferring the case to the new Defense team.

Hate to think there's yet another LE investigation related to the Delphi case ... but I'm thinking ... there just might be.

All just a theory. JMHO.

 

[Boxer]

The defense attorney's job is to force the government (the prosecution) to prove the case.

Prosecutor: Joe Meany murdered!

Defense: Prove it.

The defense's job is, essentially, to say "prove it" to the government. If we didn't have defense attorneys, the government could make allegations and take people's liberty away without being held to the law.

When looking at individual cases, it can sometimes look like the defense attorneys are helping clients "get away" with crimes, but the bigger picture is they are preventing the government from "getting away" with allegations that don't hold up to the law.

jmo

Just to be clear, I understand the defense is a vital part of the system to make prosecutors prove their case, and protect innocent people accused of wrongdoing and is a very good thing.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The defense attorney's job is to force the government (the prosecution) to prove the case.

Prosecutor: Joe Meany murdered!

Defense: Prove it.

The defense's job is, essentially, to say "prove it" to the government. If we didn't have defense attorneys, the government could make allegations and take people's liberty away without being held to the law.

When looking at individual cases, it can sometimes look like the defense attorneys are helping clients "get away" with crimes, but the bigger picture is they are preventing the government from "getting away" with allegations that don't hold up to the law.

jmo

Even with defense attys, see how easy it was to put a man in prison without a trial. For a year. In solitary confinement. For his own good. When there are other options.

 

[TL4S]

The man seated with NMcL yesterday, JLjr:

DCS Adds to Litigation Division - Inside INdiana Business

Due to the graphic nature of the leaked CS photos, and the age of the victims, would that explain JLjr's presence at the hearing? Considering his background, it makes me wonder.

 

[MistyWaters]

What was the first leak?

And we are talking about whether the judge should have withheld filings by the defense so she could review them first, and that her failure to do so allowed the memorandum to be accessible by the public. We aren’t talking about this last leak of photos.

So the first one was a leak of phone records or something? The judge would have zero reason to believe that would happen again and thus she needed to review everything prior to filing.

Regardless, I have never heard of a case where the court reviews everything prior to it being filed. The remedy is to sanction the attorneys or to remove them or need be.

I got this from MS, and I hope I’m explaining it clearly because it involves a twisty manipulative ploy to link together both leaks.

The first leak was regarding a descriptive listing of crime scene photos emailed to a guy from Delphi by the defense in error, who had a gripe with local police. Oddly his story really didn’t make it to MSM, maybe because he lacks integrity. His name is Woodhouse, is that ironic or what considering all the talk about branch, sticks and runes. I’ll use the initial BW.

This is BWs story -

Former county jail inmate claims civil rights violation - Carroll County Comet

A former Carroll County jail inmate, Brandon Woodhouse, has filed a complaint in the Northern Indiana District Court against Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby, the County Sheriff’s Department, Jailer John (as spelled in the formal complaint) Randle and Jail Commander Lori Sustarsic. The...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

The defense team had reached out to BW in preparation of defending their own client and claimed the email about the crime scene photos sent to him was a clerical mistake. But this guy is quite vocal on SM, apparently wasn’t a secret that he had some type of inside info although he didn’t disclose the source. I suppose as he was from Delphi it might’ve been assumed he was associated with someone who lurked about and snapped some photos.

So the latest leak, MS claims within the text messages accompanying the leaked photos it became obvious there was an intentional plot to protect “M” (Baldwin’s friend, the real leaker) by attempting to lead everyone to believe it was BW instead, since he’d already talked about knowing inside info relating to crime scene photos.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The man seated with NMcL yesterday, JLjr:

DCS Adds to Litigation Division - Inside INdiana Business

Due to the graphic nature of the leaked CS photos, and the age of the victims, would that explain JLjr's presence at the hearing? Considering his background, it makes me wonder.

Back when NMcL went before the board to request more money, he stated in passing that there was on outside attorney assisting in the case. However, he didn't say who that attorney was. Maybe it's JLjr?
I don't have that link but it is in one of 3 articles by the Carroll County Comet.

 

[Inthedetails]

Even with defense attys, see how easy it was to put a man in prison without a trial. For a year. In solitary confinement. For his own good. When there are other options.

You make a valid point (I say with clenched teeth because I think RA = BG).

jmopinion

 

[FrostedGlass]

You make a valid point (I say with clenched teeth because I think RA = BG).

jmopinion

Thank you (I know.)

 

[MistyWaters]

It has never added up to me why some people might think that there's any advantage to the D in leaking these photos into the public domain.

To be clear I'm not saying they're not culpable for the leak - they are, it's on them and they've just begun to pay the price in terms of now being off the case. IMO this is not a matter for celebration. Whatever you think of these guys, and I don't care either way - they worked hard for their client (not saying always smart!).

D lawyers expend a huge amount of energy trying to do the exact opposite! They DON'T want the public (typically the jurors) seeing these awful crime scenes because of the emotional charge it brings and then feelings (something must be done/ avenge the crime) etc which can start to outweigh the calmer rational response. It happens every single case of this kind - P want them seen obviously, D don't. 9/10 P get their way.

The D had already laid out details from the scenes in the D memo, to try to queer the pitch with doubt and also to try to support their conclusion of a ritualistic killing (far fetched but not the point here). The last thing D need are CS photos out there whilst the only guy in the frame is their client.

Like I keep saying, this whole thing needs a proper investigation from chain of transfer, to monies/ favours changing hands. Something in this does not make sense unless you're just wanting to interpret it into a preconceived narrative. JMO folks.

There’s was no conspiracy and the defence was not set up, if that’s your insinuation. Of course leaking evidence, drip, drip, drip, benefits the defence because that prejudice which you’ve mentioned could result in contamination of the jury pool or a mistrial.

Not one time, but three incidents all interrelated equals quite a concerted effort IMO. The defense has acknowledged their direct involvement in all three instances.
- the first leak admitted by the defense consisting of a listing of the crime scene photos;
- the memo supporting the Frank’s Hearing acknowledged by the defense which contained totally unnecessary IMO detailed descriptions of the crime scene and the victims bodies. The Judge took action by filing a protection order shortly thereafter.
- then the leaking of the actual crime scene photos to a friend of the defense with attempts to hide the true source.

 

[MistyWaters]

Even with defense attys, see how easy it was to put a man in prison without a trial. For a year. In solitary confinement. For his own good. When there are other options.

I wonder is solitary confinement really a bad thing considering the class of available ‘roommates‘?

 

[Bergmann]

There’s was no conspiracy and the defence was not set up, it that’s your insinuation. Of course leaking evidence, drip, drip, drip, benefits the defence because that prejudice which you’ve mentioned could result in contamination of the jury pool or a mistrial.

Not one time, but three incidents all interrelated equals quite a concerted effort IMO. The defense has acknowledged their direct involvement in all three instances.
- the first leak admitted by the defense consisting of a listing of the crime scene photos;
- the memo supporting the Frank’s Hearing acknowledged by the defense which contained totally unnecessary IMO detailed descriptions of the crime scene and the victims bodies. The Judge took action by filing a protection order shortly thereafter.
- then the leaking of the actual crime scene photos to a friend of the defense with attempts to hide the true source.

No that’s not what I am insinuating. Don’t wish to debate that point any further.

 

[Yellow Rose]

It might. But the previous defense infused a very stinky alternative theory with the Odin angle. There are other, much better SODDI defenses.

So the stinks may cancel each other out.

jmo

I'm ever so hopeful this is the case