IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[Betty P]

I mean this respectfully - I think you guys are looking too deeply into the word choice. I believe AB's lawyer simply means that he was betrayed. He let this person close to him have access to the room and they chose to betray AB (allegedly). I think it's very much worth considering the possibility that the leaker didn't spontaneously do this without direction, as I'm sure many of you are.

I think we have to keep an open mind about whether AB was betrayed. As I understand, there's an ongoing investigation into how the evidence was taken and released to the public. We should wait until we learn the results of that investigation. ISP is hopefully taking advantage of the tools available to them to track cell phone, internet, text and other activity related to the documents and those who had them.

 

[Emma Peel]

I’d rather they investigated the real crime which is the awful murder of these girls.

hear, hear

this here

and

that there.

 

[zh0r4]

Has Baldwins Friday filing been put up on the Court site or was it submitted under seal? Does anyone know?

I’d rather they investigated the real crime which is the awful murder of these girls.

Apologies, I meant they took over both the homicide investigation and the leak. They have great resources re: technology. Technology is involved in the murder of the girls and the leak.

 

[Bergmann]

Well then I’ll put it this way….. I prefer not to engage in debate about what I personally consider to be unknown. If you choose to, that’s your prerogative. IMO settling issues within the confines of legal arguments is why hearings and trials interest me.

As we’ve often learned regarding this case, we don’t know as much as we think we know.

Who would’ve believed a week ago that the Oct 12th hearing would be the date that RA‘s defence team walked?

That’s clear but all the things I’ve originally posited in a message a while back about the flaws in the P case were known items to the court via the P PCA and that’s why I was debating them.

Your own definition of unknown isn’t material to the court known as via filings and therefore only relevant to yourself.

The relevance of D walking is not clear to me when discussing the P PCA filed months earlier.

 

[sunshineray]

Seems like former D is not the only ones capable of conjuring wild theories and magical thinking... lol!

Should we consider NMcL a clown now too?

It's unfortunately a valid point though, IMO. When a mother can get a ransom phone call from her daughter saying she's been kidnapped (audio taken and manipulated from the daughter's social media accounts) and totally believe it, anything is possible. I believe the Prosecution doesn't want cameras in the courtroom but the AI thing is a real faking danger that's only growing.
AJMO

 

[10ofRods]

Incorrect, it is abnormal for a pre-trial, non-convicted civilian to be incarcerated in a prison and under strict lock & key to the point of solitary confinement. They are normally housed in the county jail, with more freedoms and less intensity.

In Bryan Kohberger's case, he's in county jail, but in solitary confinement and segregated from other inmates. I am very surprised to learn that RA is not in a county facility. However, sometimes prisons have less intensity (I've done quite a bit of research in both jails and prisons).

Are there any medical issues that RA might have? Because that's a common reason to transfer from jail to prison. Really large county jails (like the ones I work in) would have good medical facilities for most things, but smaller county jails here in CA occasionally send a chronically ill inmate to a nearby prison by arrangement.

In a documentary on the Sacramento County Jail (where Joe DeAngelo was held), inmates said they preferred the prisons (especially the newer ones) over the jail, whereas at the jail I work at most, prisoners say they much prefer staying at the jail (it's a special jail, it is new and well-designed and there is no solitary confinement for anyone). But some prisons (like the one out at Chino) are actually pretty nice and preferred by the incarcerated themselves. LA County Jail inmates look forward to going there, as opposed to most of the LA County Jail facilities (some are pretty good, though, these days - for the minimum security people, anyway).

But jails can have solitary confinement too (and we have that capability at our second, main jail which is used to house people awaiting trial - definitely can be remanded to solitary and there's usually documentation of how and why that's happening - but that's not public info).

IMO

 

[sunshineray]

As I have said now several times, I’m not debating the unknown, I’m debating the known aspects of the P own case via it’s PCA.

Nothing to do with the D memo. You introduce that but I’ve already said ‘pre memo’.

The PCA though is not the P's entire "case" and therefore using it to take apart that "case" isn't logical, IMO. It's only enough facts to get a judge to sign a search warrant on probable cause.

The trial is where the public will be privy to the whole "case". AJMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

It's unfortunately a valid point though, IMO. When a mother can get a ransom phone call from her daughter saying she's been kidnapped (audio taken and manipulated from the daughter's social media accounts) and totally believe it, anything is possible. I believe the Prosecution doesn't want cameras in the courtroom but the AI thing is a real faking danger that's only growing.
AJMO

P doesn't just want no cameras in the courtroom; IMO he'd be real happy to keep everything sealed = Gag order in place, all docs sealed and no cameras allowed.

 

[sunshineray]

In Bryan Kohberger's case, he's in county jail, but in solitary confinement and segregated from other inmates. I am very surprised to learn that RA is not in a county facility. However, sometimes prisons have less intensity (I've done quite a bit of research in both jails and prisons).

Are there any medical issues that RA might have? Because that's a common reason to transfer from jail to prison. Really large county jails (like the ones I work in) would have good medical facilities for most things, but smaller county jails here in CA occasionally send a chronically ill inmate to a nearby prison by arrangement.

In a documentary on the Sacramento County Jail (where Joe DeAngelo was held), inmates said they preferred the prisons (especially the newer ones) over the jail, whereas at the jail I work at most, prisoners say they much prefer staying at the jail (it's a special jail, it is new and well-designed and there is no solitary confinement for anyone). But some prisons (like the one out at Chino) are actually pretty nice and preferred by the incarcerated themselves. LA County Jail inmates look forward to going there, as opposed to most of the LA County Jail facilities (some are pretty good, though, these days - for the minimum security people, anyway).

But jails can have solitary confinement too (and we have that capability at our second, main jail which is used to house people awaiting trial - definitely can be remanded to solitary and there's usually documentation of how and why that's happening - but that's not public info).

IMO

I think RA's acting out in a way that his physical health could be in danger from his actions may have something to do with him being better off in a facility that has more manpower and services available to him?

 

[mrjitty]

This leaking issue is out of my realm of expertise.
Why was the Indiana State Police be called in to investigate a leak?

It’s a crime

 

[FrostedGlass]

It’s a crime

The only crime I've seen mentioned is Contempt of Court.
What other category does this leak fall into?

 

[10ofRods]

I think RA's acting out in a way that his physical health could be in danger from his actions may have something to do with him being better off in a facility that has more manpower and services available to him?

That's what I'm thinking. He's lost a lot of weight, is apparently refusing to eat and sometimes to drink, is doing other odd things.

I should also mention that some inmates and prisoners prefer being alone in a cell (Charles Manson did, although he gradually became a little more social as he put in his decades of penitentiary life - apparently).

But I'm guessing that RA needs special protection in prison and is also causing concerns on the medical front.

IMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

The only crime I've seen mentioned is Contempt of Court.
What other category does this leak fall into?

Maybe:

Possession of illicitly obtained exclusive evidence.

I can't say what this type of penalty a crime like this could generate, or if the terminology is correct,

BUT... the photos include a nude, murdered underage girl/s. Sick as it is, there is a market for that.

Safe to say that people of a certain caliber would be pretty happy to pay for them.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Why start killing that day? Were there other crimes that led up to the murders? Any record of burglary, voyeur, even passing of bad checks, etc? It's not the norm for a middle age man to decide to start killing, right? What is known about the alleged killer RA? moo

Killing is not the norm. It's an aberration to start with.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

JMO but if commentators could start with the evidence and work back from that there would be more Web Sleuthing than mere presumption of guilt and interpreting the evidence that fits.

Just who you are referring to as “commentators”

 

[Boxer]

That's what I'm thinking. He's lost a lot of weight, is apparently refusing to eat and sometimes to drink, is doing other odd things.

I should also mention that some inmates and prisoners prefer being alone in a cell (Charles Manson did, although he gradually became a little more social as he put in his decades of penitentiary life - apparently).

But I'm guessing that RA needs special protection in prison and is also causing concerns on the medical front.

IMO

MOO there was a report he ate the case discovery pages or tried.
MOO eating is some form of control for him.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Agreed, I would hate to see RA pull an FD.

Meh, but for the families' sake, I want them to get the answers they want and deserve whatever those may be.

Jumping off your post here, a lot of people forget that RA is in solitary confinement because of HIS OWN threat of self harm.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Maybe:

Possession of illicitly obtained exclusive evidence.

I can't say what this type of penalty a crime like this could generate, or if the terminology is correct,

BUT... the photos include a nude, murdered underage girl/s. Sick as it is, there is a market for that.

Safe to say that people of a certain caliber would be pretty happy to pay for them.

JMO

That might apply to the leakers but not to AB for leaking. At this point there is no evidence that the photos were leaked for nefarious purposes.

It seems like there should be some code in Indiana law as to what should happen to attys who leak evidence and who should rule on that. I know it's said the judge has the authority so I'm just wanting to see it in law.

 

[Ravenmoon]

That might apply to the leakers but not to AB for leaking. At this point there is no evidence that the photos were leaked for nefarious purposes.

It seems like there should be some code in Indiana law as to what should happen to attys who leak evidence and who should rule on that. I know it's said the judge has the authority so I'm just wanting to see it in law.

If I am being honest, I cannot think of any reason other than something nefarious being the reason for leaking. Can you?

And it is absolutely ABs responsibility. He took those photos and all other evidence in with the understanding that he had to keep them protected and private. Wouldn't you agree?


JMO

 

[Bergmann]

The PCA though is not the P's entire "case" and therefore using it to take apart that "case" isn't logical, IMO. It's only enough facts to get a judge to sign a search warrant on probable cause.

The trial is where the public will be privy to the whole "case". AJMO

Well, you can only work with what is presented to the court and so I have.