IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

[girlhasnoname]

Maybe. It could also be that SCOIN wants to make sure they give her a fair chance to get everything together. There are a couple of different things going on, it is hard to keep up tbh.

(I thought I posted this but in case I haven’t, for easy viewing)

Order Granting Motion for Extension of Time
SCION, Rush, filed 11/9/2023

Source:
Expired Document Link - MyCase

This is one large circus with a ton of monkey isn't it? I just hope the SCOIN makes a logical and fair ruling so things can eventually move forward.

They might have JG recuse herself (I don't think she should) for appearance's sake, but no way in heck are they going to let R&B represent Defendant Allen going forward. I have said I'll eat my hat (favorite pink golf cap) if that happens.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I agree. Is there a need to rush this trial without giving parties time to prepare reports, etc? Defense attorneys are given time. Is there a reason why judges are not? Judges are busy people, too. I assume this judge is handling other cases. As I mentioned previously, based on observing some recent trials, its possible the defense deliberately made inflammatory or false statements when in chambers with the intention of later demanding transcripts to be released to the public. Why is anyone even having to defend giving the judge time to prepare a report? These arguments seem so unusual, JMO.

It's not about giving her time; it's about how much time is reasonable. A man deemed innocent in the eyes of the law is in prison.

The judge entered this case with some idea of what a huge one this will be. If she was too busy to give it the attention it needs, then I don't know what to say.

If defense made inflammatory statements, then by all means release the transcript.

 

[CGBSpender]

If anyone is interfering with RA’s trial, it is JG. If the P had integrity, they would never have asked the D to be DQ’d, bc they would have been confident in their case against RA. JG taking P’s recommendation to DQ his literal court opponents seems considerably bias. It is important to note, CW only found TWO cases where Indiana public defenders were *ever* disqualified: (1) bc a conflict of interest and (2) bc they weren’t a member of the bar.

P didn't have much of a choice in the situation...P had to ask for the DQ IMO. P sees that there is an issue with the representation based on the facts that might give rise to an argument that the representation would be unethical and unfair to the accused, and as such might jeopardize any conviction that results. The way this is remedied is by the P asking for DQ, and then the D opposing it and getting an agreement from their client that waives any future claims based on the representation conflict. HOWEVER, in this case, JG clearly felt for whatever reason that a waiver from the D's client was not sufficient remedy for the case to move forward with the former D representing him.

JMO

 

[CGBSpender]

How would going to trial sooner than later be interfering at all? If the state is so confident, why prolong it? Another way this is corrupt and underhanded, is bc it is likely the P wants to prolong it in hopes RA gives up and pleads bc he’s being treated abhorrently for someone who hasn’t even had a trial. If he gives up, again, they don’t have to take it to trial to present their presumably weak case.

Maybe I missed something, but what makes you think that the State isn't ready to go to trial in January if they needed to?

I think the former D is bluffing a bit on being ready for trial in January. As someone else on here mentioned, they haven't filed many of the pre-trial motions one would expect need to be filed and argued before trial based on what we know so far about the case. With the holidays coming up, and the final discovery not having been due until Nov 1...I don't think it is practical for them to think they would be ready for trial by January. I would think it would take at least the month of November for the D to get through simply reviewing the remaining discovery dumps. I suppose if they are using something like Relativity or some other e-discovery platform it could speed up the process...but I have my doubts they were employing a sophisticated electronic solution for discovery review given what has been said about how documents were stored and communicated in light of the leak allegations.

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Wasn’t one of reasons the hearing was specifically scheduled to address “recent events”? B and R certainly knew what was going to be talked about and the seriousness of the situation.
There was a week between the hearing being scheduled and the hearing. The prosecution spent their time gathering information and witnesses. What the heck was the ex-defense team doing? They could have done the same but they chose to do nothing. They knew more than anybody how “grossly negligent” they had been. They should have been prepared to explain and defend it all. But they did nothing. There was nothing the prosecution witnesses could have brought up that would have surprised them. I can’t categorize that as an “ambush”.
Frankly, I think the ex-defense did have a plan. It was to do nothing and resign…but not mean it. Then blow everything up with accusations and finger pointing. They admitted as much at the Oct 31st hearing when they told the judge, “yes, we did resign, but we didn’t mean it. It was part of our strategy”. Worked great for them. Nobody is talking about RA, nobody’s talking about leaks and bad behavior. All the talk is about the conniving judge.
I am well aware that the judge has some serious things she needs to explain. I’m also aware that pretty much the only version of events being cited is what the ex-defense says happened in their recent motions. Not the most reliable sources. Because of that I really don’t understand why the judge gets vilified and the ex-defense gets a pass on everything.

 

[CGBSpender]

Another way this is corrupt and underhanded, is bc it is likely the P wants to prolong it in hopes RA gives up and pleads bc he’s being treated abhorrently for someone who hasn’t even had a trial. If he gives up, again, they don’t have to take it to trial to present their presumably weak case.

I hate to be Debbie Downer for folks...and perhaps I'll have to eat my words one day...but IMO you could reinstate the former D, let them hand pick the trial date (for January or whenever), kick JG off the case, put RA in a Hilton with private security...heck you could even replace NM as P on the case...and I still see this case pleading out.

JMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I’ve started wondering if the ex-defense actually did much of anything.

1000s of billable hours at $100 an hour presumably

 

[Megnut]

I hate to be Debbie Downer for folks...and perhaps I'll have to eat my words one day...but IMO you could reinstate the former D, let them hand pick the trial date (for January or whenever), kick JG off the case, put RA in a Hilton with private security...heck you could even replace NM as P on the case...and I still see this case pleading out.

JMO

I was going to say almost all this, except instead of pleading out, the reinstated defense will begin with motions to delay the trial beyond January, 2024. It's what they do.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I hate to be Debbie Downer for folks...and perhaps I'll have to eat my words one day...but IMO you could reinstate the former D, let them hand pick the trial date (for January or whenever), kick JG off the case, put RA in a Hilton with private security...heck you could even replace NM as P on the case...and I still see this case pleading out.

JMO

Considering his age and the 2 charges against him, what would be the benefit to him?
It would surely restrict his right to appeal, other than his sentence.

 

[CGBSpender]

1000s of billable hours at $100 an hour presumably

That "work of art" Franks Memo had to be good for at least $40,000 in billables. I feel like they've got to be hitting close to six figures at this point if not more.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

That "work of art" Franks Memo had to be good for at least $40,000 in billables. I feel like they've got to be hitting close to six figures at this point if not more.

JMO

At least IMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Considering his age and the 2 charges against him, what would be the benefit to him?
It would surely restrict his right to appeal, other than his sentence.

Peace of mind. He could spare his family a lot of pain and anguish of sitting through trial with their hopes of his innocence torn away with every gruesome detail of his acts.
I believe he was ready to plead in April. I think it’s why he confessed. I think the defense team talked him out of it which is why he had a mental break.
There is relief in admitting, you accept the guilt and the consequence.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

That "work of art" Franks Memo had to be good for at least $40,000 in billables. I feel like they've got to be hitting close to six figures at this point if not more.

JMO

Per their statement it had been 1000s of hours so I take it to mean 1000++ so $100,000++.

 

[CGBSpender]

Considering his age and the 2 charges against him, what would be the benefit to him?
It would surely restrict his right to appeal, other than his sentence.

I'm in the camp that I think more than one person was likely involved in the crime. If that is the case, and RA knows something about that...he's got some negotiating power. The benefit would be negotiating potentially any of the following: doing less time, earlier parole eligibility, doing his time in a better facility, doing his time in a less secure facility, work release privileges, etc. There are several ways I think the pot can be sweetened.

If you recall, earlier this year RA started eating paper, and then quit eating at all. He was trying to self-harm with any resources/power he had available to him. If he has some knowledge, starts talking, and gives them what they want...I don't see why they would object to cutting him loose from his high security situation, and moving him somewhere with little monitoring where he can do whatever he wants to himself.

I don't think the State is spending all of these resources and taking these extraordinary measures with RA just to see that he makes it to his own trial. I feel like they just want to make sure he doesn't kill himself (or someone else kills him) before he tells them, and possibly a court of law, what they think that he knows about some other person(s).

JMO

 

[Megnut]

That "work of art" Franks Memo had to be good for at least $40,000 in billables. I feel like they've got to be hitting close to six figures at this point if not more.

JMO

Especially if they charged per word.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Peace of mind. He could spare his family a lot of pain and anguish of sitting through trial with their hopes of his innocence torn away with every gruesome detail of his acts.
I believe he was ready to plead in April. I think it’s why he confessed. I think the defense team talked him out of it which is why he had a mental break.
There is relief in admitting, you accept the guilt and the consequence.

What if his family thinks he's innocent? They are still sitting in court on his side.

His wife is aware the guards were wearing Odin patches. Prosecution really needed a confession and it's not a leap, IMO, that the guards could have helped that along by threatening his family.

Regarding his confessions, if he confessed to knowing facts that only the killer would know, then I'll agree that the confessions were not false ones. He would have told those to his wife if he really wanted her to believe him. MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I'm in the camp that I think more than one person was likely involved in the crime. If that is the case, and RA knows something about that...he's got some negotiating power. The benefit would be negotiating potentially any of the following: doing less time, earlier parole eligibility, doing his time in a better facility, doing his time in a less secure facility, work release privileges, etc. There are several ways I think the pot can be sweetened.

If you recall, earlier this year RA started eating paper, and then quit eating at all. He was trying to self-harm with any resources/power he had available to him. If he has some knowledge, starts talking, and gives them what they want...I don't see why they would object to cutting him loose from his high security situation, and moving him somewhere with little monitoring where he can do whatever he wants to himself.

I don't think the State is spending all of these resources and taking these extraordinary measures with RA just to see that he makes it to his own trial. I feel like they just want to make sure he doesn't kill himself (or someone else kills him) before he tells them, and possibly a court of law, what they think that he knows about some other person(s).

JMO

I'm never sure how sentencing works but I've assumed that he will get LWOP. Whether his murders will run concurrently or consecutively is another question I can't answer. I don't know how parole works but I'd be surprised if he would live long enough to get to that point.

I'd like to see his medical records during the paper-eating episode. Actually, I'd like to see all of his medical records.

 

[TL4S]

I'm in the camp that I think more than one person was likely involved in the crime. If that is the case, and RA knows something about that...he's got some negotiating power. The benefit would be negotiating potentially any of the following: doing less time, earlier parole eligibility, doing his time in a better facility, doing his time in a less secure facility, work release privileges, etc. There are several ways I think the pot can be sweetened.

If you recall, earlier this year RA started eating paper, and then quit eating at all. He was trying to self-harm with any resources/power he had available to him. If he has some knowledge, starts talking, and gives them what they want...I don't see why they would object to cutting him loose from his high security situation, and moving him somewhere with little monitoring where he can do whatever he wants to himself.

I don't think the State is spending all of these resources and taking these extraordinary measures with RA just to see that he makes it to trial. I feel like they just want to make sure he doesn't kill himself (or someone else kills him) before he tells them, and possibly a court of law, what they think that he knows about some other person(s).

JMO

I wonder about this all the time. If there is anyone else involved, though, then I would be interested to know what motivates RA to take the fall and not turn over any names. Is waiting for a plea deal worth it?

While the world is hating on the ex-D and/or JG, the P and LE are flying under the radar. NMcL has never had to answer for his early statement that they have "good reason to believe" others are involved. Most of their evidence is veiled behind gag orders and missing documents on the docket.

The things that the ex-D released are NOT all that flattering to themselves, but at least it's out there for all to see. The story is one-sided right now because the P side is, and always has been, silent. I'm not sure what any of it means, but the P definitely seems to have the upper hand here.

I am NOT suggesting there was any conspiracy, from either side, behind the leak (I think MW intended to share it with only one person, R, and R's sharing it was unforeseen to MW). But, AB's lax office space breach and further conduct, leading to the leak, certainly took everyone's eyes off the Frank's claims against TL et al, and negated everything the ex-D ever said because they are now scum to many.

I'm interested to know, if the new D team stays on, if they will pursue the Frank's claims. Would they not be able to rewrite a Frank's motion (minus the Odinism connection, if they wish)? Because the ex-D and JG fiasco has not dissuaded my curiosity as to if LE made mistakes and omissions. To me, there aren't good and bad guys here, there are laws and rules, and THAT's what I want transparency on. JMO.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

What if his family thinks he's innocent? They are still sitting in court on his side.

His wife is aware the guards were wearing Odin patches. Prosecution really needed a confession and it's not a leap, IMO, that the guards could have helped that along by threatening his family.

Regarding his confessions, if he confessed to knowing facts that only the killer would know, then I'll agree that the confessions were not false ones. He would have told those to his wife if he really wanted her to believe him. MOO

I think he was trying to tell his wife and his mother so they could also face the truth. Denial is real and most family members cannot fathom a loved one could commit such a heinous crime. His daughter is noticeably absent. He could spare her finding out horrific things about her father in detail.
Also, since he had access to discovery documents wouldn’t he then know about evidence that had been held back from the public?
I don’t think a guard wearing a patch had any bearing on RA’s confession. Although I think it’s ridiculous that a guard would be permitted to wear such a thing.

 

[CGBSpender]

I wonder about this all the time. If there is anyone else involved, though, then I would be interested to know what motivates RA to take the fall and not turn over any names. Is waiting for a plea deal worth it?

While the world is hating on the ex-D and/or JG, the P and LE are flying under the radar. NMcL has never had to answer for his early statement that they have "good reason to believe" others are involved. Most of their evidence is veiled behind gag orders and missing documents on the docket.

The things that the ex-D released are NOT all that flattering to themselves, but at least it's out there for all to see. The story is one-sided right now because the P side is, and always has been, silent. I'm not sure what any of it means, but the P definitely seems to have the upper hand here.

I am NOT suggesting there was any conspiracy, from either side, behind the leak (I think MW intended to share it with only one person, R, and R's sharing it was unforeseen to MW). But, AB's lax office space breach and further conduct, leading to the leak, certainly took everyone's eyes off the Frank's claims against TL et al, and negated everything the ex-D ever said because they are now scum to many.

I'm interested to know, if the new D team stays on, if they will pursue the Frank's claims. Would they not be able to rewrite a Frank's motion (minus the Odinism connection, if they wish)? Because the ex-D and JG fiasco has not dissuaded my curiosity as to if LE made mistakes and omissions. To me, there aren't good and bad guys here, there are laws and rules, and THAT's what I want transparency on. JMO.

I think transparency is very difficult if LE is trying to get to the bottom of possibly who else was involved. NMcL did state that it's possible others might be involved. The former D's Franks Memo, for what it is worth, seemed to hammer home the idea that it was unlikely that one person did the crime alone. If the Franks Memo is accurate, then Leazenby told the former D in his deposition that he believed that at least two people were involved. This kind of seems like an area that the P, some LE and former D might agree on...which I think makes it an important possibility to consider.

JMO