IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

[photographer4]

Judge Gull is not required to hand over anything except to the SCOIN by the new deadline of Nov 26th.

MOO

I'm asking though - WHY does she even need the extension? If a transcript or audio exists, shouldn't that have been an easy thing to hand over? If it does exist, then there should be NO reason why she's delaying on this that I can think of? That should have already been done. I could see if she had handed it over and then asked for time to write a written response as well but to my knowledge, she hasn't done this. She has instead delayed what, twice now?

 

[girlhasnoname]

But if that was what they did, then they did it brilliantly. They've taken the heat off of RA as the accused and garnered a lot of sympathy for him as an unconvicted accused rotting in a prison cell. They've drawn attention to the issues of other possible suspects, and brought awareness to errors of file sealing / lack thereof and issues around lack of timely decision making. Do I think they're blameless? No. Do I like how they did it? No. But they definitely drew attention off their client and got him sympathy.

I wonder if a poll was taken now, how many people think RA is innocent or feel any sympathy for him because of that Memorandum in support of the Franks Motion? The Defense jumped the shark with that move IMO.

I bet a large percentage of people familiar with this case still believes RA to be guilty. There are some Podcasters and appellate attorneys crying "injustice" right now on RA's behalf (and getting lots of kudos and attention for it). Let's see where they stand after Nov 26th.

JMO

 

[CGBSpender]

I guess there are two ways at looking at what the P hasn’t done. Withholding the evidence on Odinism does not amount to remaining silent because they were ”supposed to.” They failed to disclose important information to the D and they failed to investigate certain individuals. They ignored key parts of a criminal investigation. It’s that simple.

This is not a conspiracy “theory.” Sadly, once one looks at it from that perspective, it’s difficult to shift gears. I’m not saying the P are conspiring, but it appears the majority are discounting the Odinism as “conspiracy theory.” Regrettably, once the pejorative “conspiracy theory” is invoked, it is somehow believed that conspiracies don’t exist at all, which just isn’t the case. I challenge the assumption that this evil does not exist. JMHO

I guess I just don't see how the former D can claim that the P was "withholding evidence" in September when the discovery period for the production of evidence had not yet expired, and that deadline was later agreed upon to be Nov. 1. I've also really struggled with how the former D could even file that memorandum and in good faith make some of the claims they did...when they had not yet even picked up, let alone reviewed like 50% of the remaining discovery documents concerning the case...and they also admitted in the memo to not reviewing some of the discovery that they did have in great depth.

With regard to the allegations raised in the Franks Memo against some other individuals that the former D thinks should have been looked at more closely...I will feel really bad for them if it turns out information about their alibi and/or information supporting why they were not looked at further by LE was simply contained in the discovery batches the former D had not yet picked up and read when they filed their memo.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm asking though - WHY does she even need the extension? If a transcript or audio exists, shouldn't that have been an easy thing to hand over? If it does exist, then there should be NO reason why she's delaying on this that I can think of? That should have already been done. I could see if she had handed it over and then asked for time to write a written response as well but to my knowledge, she hasn't done this. She has instead delayed what, twice now?

It's been noted several times in the recent threads a transcript does exist, we have a signed affidavit from the court reporter.

Judge Gull is entitled to respond in the timeframe as afforded to her by SCOIN.

ETA: I cannot begin to guess Why, I just trust that the SCOIN felt is was reasonable.

MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Regarding the Franks Memo: Do the 194 footnotes citing the videos, exhibit numbers, page numbers, etc account for anything in your opinion?

I went through the first 50 pages of the memo and copied the footnotes and pages they were on. I planned to post them, thinking they would be of interest; but I think that would be a waste of time.

They don’t mean a thing without being able to see the whole document the footnote is referencing for context.
Partial quotes does not equal someone’s whole, truthful statement.

I went through the footnotes early on and found lots of inconsistencies with what was quoted and how many lines it spanned in the memorandum vs on the footnoted document so I knew things were being taken out of context. Cherry picked so to speak to mislead.

 

[Emma Peel]

Regarding the Franks Memo: Do the 194 footnotes citing the videos, exhibit numbers, page numbers, etc account for anything in your opinion?

I went through the first 50 pages of the memo and copied the footnotes and pages they were on. I planned to post them, thinking they would be of interest; but I think that would be a waste of time.

requote by me:

I think that would be a waste of time.

I respectfully disagree.

thinking they would be of interest

I agree with this thinking.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I wonder if a poll was taken now, how many people think RA is innocent or feel any sympathy for him because of that Memorandum in support of the Franks Motion? The Defense jumped the shark with that move IMO.

I bet a large percentage of people familiar with this case still believes RA to be guilty. There are some Podcasters and appellate attorneys crying "injustice" right now on RA's behalf (and getting lots of kudos and attention for it). Let's see where they stand after Nov 26th.

JMO

Crying for it doesn't mean they will get it. I believe SC judges typically support lower court judges.

For the record, I was on the fence...staying open. At this point, I'd be even less likely to convict since I've read the Franks memo.

I have an appreciation for citing sources.

 

[Betty P]

She should now be able to fully explain her reasoning on this matter with the quick production of a transcript and or audio! If these do not exist, why not? If they do exist, then why is she so intent on delaying the hand over?

Yes, they should take it to another judge and work it out. The trial can move forward then. There's no chance they will be restored as defense attorneys for RA. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

I can and do look at it this way. She was very prepared to do what she did and IMO should have been prepared for the outcome.

There should be no big issue with the transcript. Either hit that "send" key or issue her statement explaining why she's fighting tooth and nail to keep it secret.

I've seen it said she either is or was on the short list for Supreme Court judge.
MOO

She isn’t keeping it secret. It will be filed with her response. We don’t need to see it in the meantime.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Crying for it doesn't mean they will get it. I believe SC judges typically support lower court judges.

For the record, I was on the fence...staying open. At this point, I'd be even less likely to convict since I've read the Franks memo.

I have an appreciation for citing sources.

Ok, but I don't believe the D properly vetted a lot of those 'sources' they used, and maybe even used them out of context. We do know that some LE they quoted have since denied they felt it was a 'ritualistic' killing.

But again, that is JMO.

 

[mrjitty]

RSBBM
The D was and is ready to go to trial in January 2024 bc they know the state has a flimsy case and that they would win. The DQ is a way to cheat, IMO, bc the P is being out lawyered.

I do not believe under any circumstances that R&B were ready to go to trial in Jan. They hadn't even had the Franks Hearing Motion heard. They hadn't taken all of their witness depositions, let alone gotten their expert witness list together and their testimonies. Oh, and they hadn't filed a speedy trial motion yet either.

Also, figure in all the holidays during the remaining year, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years. I simply believe this is more megalomania bluster by this Defense.

JMO

I agree. No way were they ready.

They would have sought a continuance.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Ok, but I don't believe the D properly vetted a lot of those 'sources' they used, and maybe even used them out of context. We do know that some LE they quoted have since denied they felt it was a 'ritualistic' killing.

But again, that is JMO.

I believe some areas of the memorandum that have been tested have been proven untrue and others true.
Inconsistencies should cause one to proceed with caution.

 

[Justice101]

I've said this before!! A man who hasn't yet been found guilty of anything is rotting in a prison cell for over a year now. It is still a year before his case might be finally heard. This is not acceptable! Would you be cool with this if this were YOUR loved one who MIGHT be innocent? Would you be ok with this if YOU were RA (and you were innocent)? I would not be. I'd like to see this case tried expediently.

that's why a judge decides if bail is legally warranted. it's not based on feelings.

 

[zh0r4]

They don’t mean a thing without being able to see the whole document the footnote is referencing for context.
Partial quotes does not equal someone’s whole, truthful statement.

I went through the footnotes early on and found lots of inconsistencies with what was quoted and how many lines it spanned in the memorandum vs on the footnoted document so I knew things were being taken out of context. Cherry picked so to speak to mislead.

So you think any two lawyers would risk their career falsifying 194 exhibits and deposition footnotes in an official document they made doing their job?

 

[mrjitty]

I guess I just don't see how the former D can claim that the P was "withholding evidence" in September when the discovery period for the production of evidence had not yet expired, and that deadline was later agreed upon to be Nov. 1. I've also really struggled with how the former D could even file that memorandum and in good faith make some of the claims they did...when they had not yet even picked up, let alone reviewed like 50% of the remaining discovery documents concerning the case...and they also admitted in the memo to not reviewing some of the discovery that they did have in great depth.

With regard to the allegations raised in the Franks Memo against some other individuals that the former D thinks should have been looked at more closely...I will feel really bad for them if it turns out information about their alibi and/or information supporting why they were not looked at further by LE was simply contained in the discovery batches the former D had not yet picked up and read when they filed their memo.

JMO

Half that garbage wouldn’t have been admissible at trial. That is why they bolted it on to the Franks memo.

 

[mrjitty]

So you think any two lawyers would risk their career falsifying 194 exhibits and deposition footnotes in an official document they made doing their job?

Well they let some dude access the discovery so ….

 

[girlhasnoname]

that's why a judge decides if bail is legally warranted. it's not based on feelings.

Right, and after the information about RA's 5 confessions to his wife and mother (which the Defense ultimately agreed did happen), the bail issue and RA became persona non grata.

moo

 

[Cyber sleuth]

So you think any two lawyers would risk their career falsifying 194 exhibits and deposition footnotes in an official document they made doing their job?

In a nutshell yes- because there is very little penalty for doing so. It’s seen as zealous defense, not falsifying documents. It’s their opinion, their strategy and it was drafted for the public not for it to hold water in court.
And it has done exactly what they wanted it to do. They have been applauded in the defense world as geniuses. Yet the public has no way to test the memorandum for truth.
In fact, THE DEFENSE that drafted this memorandum had not yet reviewed all the discovery; therefore they couldn’t have tested it against evidence.
JMO

 

[katydid23]

To note, FBI Agent/Detective Ferency was murdered in 2021 outside of a federal building by a man retired from the Bureau of Prisons, worked at the Federal Prison Complex in Terre Haute, and ran for mayor in 2019. Nothing to see here. JMO.

Indiana man charged with murder after FBI Task Force officer shot outside federal building (7/9/2021)
Indiana man charged with murder after FBI Task Force officer shot outside federal building

Federal Trial of Terre Haute man accused of killing a police officer moved back-here’s why
Federal trial of Terre Haute man accused of killing a police officer moved back - here's why

What does that murder have to do with this case?

I scoured past articles and FB forums---no c connection that I've seen to Odinism or Delphi murders at all/

The shooter was allegedly mentally ill and had a beef with his victim over his ex girlfriend dating him.

How is that relevant to RA's guilt or innocence?

 

[katydid23]

I've said this before!! A man who hasn't yet been found guilty of anything is rotting in a prison cell for over a year now. It is still a year before his case might be finally heard. This is not acceptable! Would you be cool with this if this were YOUR loved one who MIGHT be innocent? Would you be ok with this if YOU were RA (and you were innocent)? I would not be. I'd like to see this case tried expediently.

It happens to most suspects accused of brutal murders. They are considered a possible danger to the community.

If he has confessed to his wife they are going to be concerned about releasing him until his trial is over. JMO