IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

[FrostedGlass]

So, I guess my question would be, was this person reporting on the in-chambers meeting, or the courtroom portion of the 19th, when JG announced before the public that RA's attorneys had withdrawn?

I have to re-think my answer to you. It's now: I Don't Know.

The hearing on the 19th was a status hearing but apparently JG didn't consider the closed door portion to be part of that hearing. The court reporter certified she had transcribed: "all of the proceedings had at Status Hearing". Since her affidavit specifically references the status hearing I was wrong to assume she transcribed the whole meeting.

It seems like B&R would have objected to having that whole discussion off the record considering how important it was but who knows anything with this case?

 

[FrostedGlass]

@TL4S Now that I'm reading the Motion for Transcript, once again, maybe we do have the answer. The motion is 5 pgs long and I wish I could post the whole thing.

2. Attorneys Baldwin and Rozzi requested the in-chambers proceeding be required, and undersigned counsel confirmed with the court reporter that there is indeed a recording of the proceeding held that day in chambers.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

23S-OR-00311

11/06/2023

Original Action Documents Transmitted Brief - Relator Motion for Transcript

 

[TL4S]

Dbm

 

[FrostedGlass]

I went back to edit my post but saw that you had already read it so I slipped another one in. You missed it. Good post, as always.

Deleted @TL4S post at their request.

 

[TL4S]

I went back to edit my post but saw that you had already read it so I slipped another one in. You missed it. Good post, as always.

Thanks @FrostedGlass ! I've deleted mine so I can look over what you posted better. So glad it's been confirmed!

 

[FrostedGlass]

Thanks @FrostedGlass ! I've deleted mine so I can look over what you posted better. So glad it's been confirmed!

Lol.. I quoted you so it's still there. Do you want me to see if I can delete it from my post?

 

[TL4S]

Lol.. I quoted you so it's still there. Do you want me to see if I can delete it from my post?

Sure. Some of it doesn't apply since we now know there was indeed a record made. I'm so relieved there is a record!

 

[girlhasnoname]

[sbm] because that post was full of some very strong allegations that I do not want to repeat. All I can say is that they have a member of the disciplinary committee, as well as members from around the state filing suit and amicus briefs in the state Supreme Court on their behalf, without them asking. If they were guilty of the allegations made in the post I do not believe members from the state disciplinary committee would stick their nose into this. Rather they probably would have declined - like the state AG did when he was asked to allow his office to represent another party in this matter.

JMO

It's not unusual for the State AG to decline to represent an Appointed Special Circuit Court Judge (conflict of interest), plus he has his own 'issues' going on at the present. IMO

Genuinely curious, how do we know that the members of disciplinary committee as well as other forum around the state filing to the SC on heir behalf of Rizzo & Baldwin without them asking? I could have well missed something that stated so. It's also possible R&B have proponents working behind the scenes on their behalf.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Sure. Some of it doesn't apply since we now know there was indeed a record made. I'm so relieved there is a record!

Yes, as crazy as this case has been, I didn't doubt that Judge Gull would have made an official record. That would have been beyond incompetent IMO.

She realized the magnitude of her decision, I just hope that she followed the rules that the self withdrawal made by them on the Oct 19th and subsequent removal of Rizzo and Baldwin on the 31st stands. They have contaminated this case beyond repair, and if Judge Gull did also, she needs to go as well.

Will the record of the hearing on the 19th be made public after they have their submissions on Nov 16th?

JMO

 

[TL4S]

It's not unusual for the State AG to decline to represent an Appointed Special Circuit Court Judge (conflict of interest), plus he has his own 'issues' going on at the present. IMO

Genuinely curious, how do we know that the members of disciplinary committee as well as other forum around the state filing to the SC on heir behalf of Rizzo & Baldwin without them asking? I could have well missed something that stated so. It's also possible R&B have proponents working behind the scenes on their behalf.

JMO

According to CW on Defense Diaries, she contacted BR and AB about what was going on with the docket, so she was the one to take action, on her own. Jmo.

 

[CGBSpender]

[sbm] because that post was full of some very strong allegations that I do not want to repeat. All I can say is that they have a member of the disciplinary committee, as well as members from around the state filing suit and amicus briefs in the state Supreme Court on their behalf, without them asking. If they were guilty of the allegations made in the post I do not believe members from the state disciplinary committee would stick their nose into this. Rather they probably would have declined - like the state AG did when he was asked to allow his office to represent another party in this matter.

JMO

Perhaps I didn't articulate it well. I apologize. I think both can be true...I think the former D has some valid arguments about whether or not proper procedure was followed in terms of certain administrative functions of the Court...and I do think the folks filing briefs have a legitimate interest in making sure that any ambiguity or lack of case law on point in the State of Indiana is resolved by the SC in a way that is just and fair....and I also think despite all of that, there still may ultimately be a problem with former D being reinstated. As I think @Emma Peel stated earlier...this is good stuff for those of us that geek out on case law and precedence setting.

Aside from all of that, I think it is possible there is a difference of opinion that is nothing new for the legal profession...one side views it as playing games, and the other side views it as simply good advocacy. To quote one of my favorite movies ...

"If you ask for jail time I'm going to file a motion to dismiss....and if the MTD is denied, I'll file a motion in limine seeking to obtain an evidentiary ruling in advance....and after that I'm going to file against pretrial confinement...and you're going to spend the next three months going blind on paperwork because a signalman second class bought and smoked a dime bag of oregano."- Lt. Daniel Kaffee (A Few Good Men)

JMO

 

[TL4S]

Interview with Cara Weineke. Very informative.

Will Richard Allen get his Lawyers back?

 

[Ward Thisperer]

Post #1 - the different cars described by witnesses according to the descriptions from witnesses shared in PCA/SWA/Franks Memo

2017 2016 Ford Focus black. - RA's car
car "resembling" this seen on camera 1:27pm

"Around 2:10pm" seen by TW:
Purple PT cruiser

or 'small SUV type vehicle'

2:13pm seen by BB
"1965 Ford Comet" (Ford did not make comets, she states it was similar to a car her father owned)
1965 Mercury Comet not black

1965 Fords not black

2:28pm seen by WM
small dark colored car, possibly a smart car


The defense in FM relies on BB's sightings to state that RA had left by 2:13pm

Sorry if this type of post was done to death after PCA and then FM came out but I am revisiting them and wasn't on the forum back then
edit: fixed car type for RA

 

[Ward Thisperer]

Post #2 -
Timeline of witness, LE, and RA claims according to PCA,SWA,FM and map

Edit - Imgur link for better quality

https://imgur.com/a/Z0tKJOf

Edit 2 - All "2017 Ford Focus" should read "2016 Ford Focus"

 

[mrjitty]

Yes, as crazy as this case has been, I didn't doubt that Judge Gull would have made an official record. That would have been beyond incompetent IMO.

She realized the magnitude of her decision, I just hope that she followed the rules that the self withdrawal made by them on the Oct 19th and subsequent removal of Rizzo and Baldwin on the 31st stands. They have contaminated this case beyond repair, and if Judge Gull did also, she needs to go as well.

Will the record of the hearing on the 19th be made public after they have their submissions on Nov 16th?

JMO

I’m calling him Rizzo from now on

 

[CGBSpender]

Post #1 - the different cars described by witnesses according to the descriptions from witnesses shared in PCA/SWA/Franks Memo

2017 Ford Focus black. - RA's car
car "resembling" this seen on camera 1:27pm
View attachment 459325
"Around 2:10pm" seen by TW:
Purple PT cruiser
View attachment 459326View attachment 459327
or 'small SUV type vehicle'
View attachment 459330View attachment 459332
2:13pm seen by BB
"1965 Ford Comet" (Ford did not make comets, she states it was similar to a car her father owned)
1965 Mercury Comet not black
View attachment 459336
1965 Fords not black
View attachment 459337View attachment 459338
2:28pm seen by WM
small dark colored car, possibly a smart car
View attachment 459335

The defense in FM relies on BB's sightings to state that RA had left by 2:13pm

Sorry if this type of post was done to death after PCA and then FM came out but I am revisiting them and wasn't on the forum back then

Maybe it doesn't matter much, but I thought RA had a 2016 Focus at the time?

One possibility that I don't think I've seen anyone discuss...is that at the point BB was leaving and had a good view of the CPS lot...could there have been more than one vehicle parked there that was backed into the building? And if so, was the 1965 Comet looking vehicle at that point blocking BB's view of the PT Cruiser/Small SUV/Smart Car also parked there?

The other reason I wonder this...is because if there were only one car backed in at the CPS lot...how is it that car is positioned such that TW heading South on IN25 and BB heading North on W 300 N both get a good view of it? If you look at historical visuals of that location from those vantage points, the overgrown shrubs and the building etc around that time frame...placing one car in that lot, backed in, where two people from those distinctly different viewing positions get a good look seems really difficult.

JMO

 

[Ward Thisperer]

Maybe it doesn't matter much, but I thought RA had a 2016 Focus at the time?

Ugh, you're right, I had that wrong in all of those. Sorry about that. Not sure how I managed to get that wrong while having all those docs open. Thank you.

One possibility that I don't think I've seen anyone discuss...is that at the point BB was leaving and had a good view of the CPS lot...could there have been more than one vehicle parked there that was backed into the building? And if so, was the 1965 Comet looking vehicle at that point blocking BB's view of the PT Cruiser/Small SUV/Smart Car also parked there?

The other reason I wonder this...is because if there were only one car backed in at the CPS lot...how is it that car is positioned such that TW heading South on IN25 and BB heading North on W 300 N both get a good view of it? If you look at historical visuals of that location from those vantage points, the shrub growth and the building etc around that time frame...placing one car in that lot, backed in, where two people from those distinctly different viewing positions get a good look seems really difficult.

JMO

Totally agree that I find the sightings by people driving to be a lot less credible than the people who were actually on the ground. Plus, for any eyewitness you don't know what type of mistakes they are making such as thinking they are remembering one lot but are thinking of another lot, or just totally mistaking the type of car. I personally don't think I could ever recall a type of car I saw sitting in a lot as I drove by, but as I'm a city dweller perhaps it's different for people in a more rural area who may be more accustomed to recognizing a neighbor by their car or don't see so many cars parked all over the streets. I do think it benefits the D that the person on the ground, BB, didn't seem to have a matching description to the car of RA, IMO.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Odd they are keeping RA here to keep him safe. JMO.

Article from 14 hours ago.

ISP: Inmate died of ‘blunt force trauma’ at Westville prison; charges may be filed

WESTVILLE, Ind. — Indiana State Police are investigating after an inmate died inside a Westville prison. According to ISP, correctional officers discovered an unresponsive inmate around 8 a.m. Tues…

fox59.com

They really should move this man. Not only has he not yet been convicted, he hasn't even gone to trial.

jmo

 

[mrjitty]

They really should move this man. Not only has he not yet been convicted, he hasn't even gone to trial.

jmo

Outrageous IMO

I think there should be an urgent bail application. How can he be held yet another year without trial?

 

[Emma Peel]

I’m calling him Rizzo from now on

I 2nd that emotion.

Stockard Channing – There Are Worse Things I Could Do

"...I don't steal and I don't lie
But I can feel and I can cry
A fact I'll bet you never knew
But to cry in front of you
That's the worst thing I could do."