Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #87

[CrimeDawg123]

I think you have a valid question. Here’s my thoughts on it.
1) If I’m remembering right, when LE initially released that picture of the guy on the bridge they did not and would not say how the photo was taken, only that they wanted to talk to anybody that was at the trails that day, especially that guy. They termed him a witness, not a suspect, though some people wondered about that. People speculated for days on where the photo came from. Most seemed to think it came from a trail camera someone had set up. During those days apparently lots of people who had been at the trails that day called in as requested and talked to LE. The BG never did. Never called and said “oh my gosh, that’s me! I was there with my nephew collecting grasshoppers for his school project. And this is what I saw....”. By the next press conference, he had jumped from witness to suspect and it was revealed that the picture came from Libby’s phone. It’s 2 years later and he still hasn’t contacted police.
2) I think large portions of the video/audio recorded by Libby are included in the information LE is not releasing to the public. The quotes from police about the audio being mostly just girl talk between the girls about nothing in particular was referring to a very short part of the audio that the families were allowed to hear about a year ago. The short segment reportedly was only from before the girls were taken and perhaps, but not really confirmed, the girls referencing the creepy guy coming toward them. LE has said there is more video/audio. That they constantly discuss whether to release more in hopes someone might recognize the voice, but have not. Parts of the audio have been referred to by police as “the stuff of nightmares” or something like that.
3) I also have wondered why the girls didn’t just head in the opposite direction away from the bridge as this guy came toward them. Very quickly they would be on private property and onto farms and fields. My only guess is as young teens they knew they should stay off of private property and it never occurred to them it would be OK in an emergency. I’m not so sure they really thought it was an emergency. They may have been unsettled by this guy and nervous but I think their thought was to let him finish crossing the bridge then they would head back across and away from him. So they waited, with thoughts of distancing themselves from him but no thoughts that he would accost them and force them down the hill(there’s more to that command on the audio I feel certain) and murder them.
4) Also the crime scene is upstream from the bridge, and away from the creek bank. So bodies couldn’t have floated down there after being pushed off the bridge.
My opinion is that LE has additional information that we are not privy to that indicates to them the bridge guy is the killer. I think some of that info is in the audio/ video from Libby’s phone but there is probably other evidence too. I also think it’s possible that BG might be the main suspect, but they are investigating others that don’t match the BG description as well.
I hope I have remembered this stuff correctly! Gosh it’s been two years!

Excellent post!

About your 2) point - I agree with you that they probably weren't certain it was an emergency. Maybe they had a creepy feeling but weren't sure of the severity of their situation until it was too late. It might not have even crossed their minds to continue the rest of the way off the bridge and run towards the road/farms/houses on the other side. They probably had no idea what was even over there anyway. It would seem to me they'd be more inclined to want to head back where they came from feeling they'd find safety there. IMO. I think about these girls all the time

 

[_Hawk_]

Well there is this:
Doesn’t give much, but can see several criminal charges

Case Results

So there are at least 3 unknown criminal cases since 2003. Coincidentally, that earliest incident from 2003 was "filed" on February 13th. Does anyone know about the actual charges?

 

[crhedBngr]

I think you have a valid question. Here’s my thoughts on it.
1) If I’m remembering right, when LE initially released that picture of the guy on the bridge they did not and would not say how the photo was taken, only that they wanted to talk to anybody that was at the trails that day, especially that guy. They termed him a witness, not a suspect, though some people wondered about that. People speculated for days on where the photo came from. Most seemed to think it came from a trail camera someone had set up. During those days apparently lots of people who had been at the trails that day called in as requested and talked to LE. The BG never did. Never called and said “oh my gosh, that’s me! I was there with my nephew collecting grasshoppers for his school project. And this is what I saw....”. By the next press conference, he had jumped from witness to suspect and it was revealed that the picture came from Libby’s phone. It’s 2 years later and he still hasn’t contacted police.
2) I think large portions of the video/audio recorded by Libby are included in the information LE is not releasing to the public. The quotes from police about the audio being mostly just girl talk between the girls about nothing in particular was referring to a very short part of the audio that the families were allowed to hear about a year ago. The short segment reportedly was only from before the girls were taken and perhaps, but not really confirmed, the girls referencing the creepy guy coming toward them. LE has said there is more video/audio. That they constantly discuss whether to release more in hopes someone might recognize the voice, but have not. Parts of the audio have been referred to by police as “the stuff of nightmares” or something like that.
3) I also have wondered why the girls didn’t just head in the opposite direction away from the bridge as this guy came toward them. Very quickly they would be on private property and onto farms and fields. My only guess is as young teens they knew they should stay off of private property and it never occurred to them it would be OK in an emergency. I’m not so sure they really thought it was an emergency. They may have been unsettled by this guy and nervous but I think their thought was to let him finish crossing the bridge then they would head back across and away from him. So they waited, with thoughts of distancing themselves from him but no thoughts that he would accost them and force them down the hill(there’s more to that command on the audio I feel certain) and murder them.
4) Also the crime scene is upstream from the bridge, and away from the creek bank. So bodies couldn’t have floated down there after being pushed off the bridge.
My opinion is that LE has additional information that we are not privy to that indicates to them the bridge guy is the killer. I think some of that info is in the audio/ video from Libby’s phone but there is probably other evidence too. I also think it’s possible that BG might be the main suspect, but they are investigating others that don’t match the BG description as well.
I hope I have remembered this stuff correctly! Gosh it’s been two years!

RBBM

Yes, you've remembered these points correctly - good recap!

If we see another crime similar to this one on 02/14/19, I'm going to be side-eyeing it. And, I'm sure I won't be the only one doing so . . .

 

[Choochoobella]

I think you have a valid question. Here’s my thoughts on it.
1) If I’m remembering right, when LE initially released that picture of the guy on the bridge they did not and would not say how the photo was taken, only that they wanted to talk to anybody that was at the trails that day, especially that guy. They termed him a witness, not a suspect, though some people wondered about that. People speculated for days on where the photo came from. Most seemed to think it came from a trail camera someone had set up. During those days apparently lots of people who had been at the trails that day called in as requested and talked to LE. The BG never did. Never called and said “oh my gosh, that’s me! I was there with my nephew collecting grasshoppers for his school project. And this is what I saw....”. By the next press conference, he had jumped from witness to suspect and it was revealed that the picture came from Libby’s phone. It’s 2 years later and he still hasn’t contacted police.
2) I think large portions of the video/audio recorded by Libby are included in the information LE is not releasing to the public. The quotes from police about the audio being mostly just girl talk between the girls about nothing in particular was referring to a very short part of the audio that the families were allowed to hear about a year ago. The short segment reportedly was only from before the girls were taken and perhaps, but not really confirmed, the girls referencing the creepy guy coming toward them. LE has said there is more video/audio. That they constantly discuss whether to release more in hopes someone might recognize the voice, but have not. Parts of the audio have been referred to by police as “the stuff of nightmares” or something like that.
3) I also have wondered why the girls didn’t just head in the opposite direction away from the bridge as this guy came toward them. Very quickly they would be on private property and onto farms and fields. My only guess is as young teens they knew they should stay off of private property and it never occurred to them it would be OK in an emergency. I’m not so sure they really thought it was an emergency. They may have been unsettled by this guy and nervous but I think their thought was to let him finish crossing the bridge then they would head back across and away from him. So they waited, with thoughts of distancing themselves from him but no thoughts that he would accost them and force them down the hill(there’s more to that command on the audio I feel certain) and murder them.
4) Also the crime scene is upstream from the bridge, and away from the creek bank. So bodies couldn’t have floated down there after being pushed off the bridge.
My opinion is that LE has additional information that we are not privy to that indicates to them the bridge guy is the killer. I think some of that info is in the audio/ video from Libby’s phone but there is probably other evidence too. I also think it’s possible that BG might be the main suspect, but they are investigating others that don’t match the BG description as well.
I hope I have remembered this stuff correctly! Gosh it’s been two years!

After Seeking Jana posted her questions about the validity of considering the BG the perpetrator, I decided to go back to the beginning. Her questions and input are excellent and helpful in taking a look at everything with fresh eyes.

So I've gone way back to post 1 of thread 1 on this case. I've only made it through the first thread. It's traumatizing to go back and relive the horror of everyone hearing about the missing girls and hoping they just ran off for a bit, to hearing 2 bodies were found but not identified, to getting them IDed as Abby and Libby, etc.

StarryStarryNight, your recall is amazing and a spot-on recap of what happened. I want to corroborate some of the things you've said. Even if I wasn't a commenter on Websleuths back then, I was horrified by this crime and read everything I could about it.

Many things are etched in my mind from back then, but I can't find many points I remember on MSM sources today. Sometimes, I think things are said and then retracted. For example, in Savannah Pruitt's case, in the press conference the night she was located, Sheriff Tommy Jones answered a reporter's question about whether RP's rape charge was for the rape of SP. He affirmed that was true. "Sheriff Jones says Savannah is the victim of the rape."
Sheriff's Office: Missing TN teen found safe in Wisconsin, adoptive father arrested

Now, every media source says RP was charged with rape but most sources are not affirming that SP was the victim of that rape.

About there being more audio, I distinctly remember that too, but can't find anything on MSM that affirms that. I didn't go to social media to read about this case at all back then, so I certainly got that information somewhere in MSM. Like StarryStarryNight, I remember LE saying there was more audio, but out of respect for the victims and families, it would not be released. I also remember police saying something like it was nightmarish. I had the distinct impression back then that it was audio of one or more of the girls being killed. I even remember having read who was killed first, that this girl was considered to be "in the way." Why is that etched in my mind? Am I the only one who remembers that?

 

[Area52]

Family Tree DNA opens its genealogy database to FBI
3 hours ago

This could be a gamechanger for many unsolved crimes!!

 

[PaulaDC]

Family Tree DNA opens its genealogy database to FBI
3 hours ago

This could be a gamechanger for many unsolved crimes!!

 

[PaulaDC]

But sadly it seems as though the fbi has only put forth a few cases. I hope these agencies start to realize how important this service is to the victims/families. Soon.

 

[Choochoobella]

Having read through the first thread on this case, StarryStarryNight's recap on her third bullet point is excellent.

To add to everything StarryStarryNight said, I'm going to bring forward a quote from Mpnola in thread 1:

"And if there are 2 girls, if one gets taken or hurt, it is likely the other will, too. They are of the age that they still comply when given a command by an adult. Especially one with threat. And they do not leave their friends behind."

I completely agree with what Mpnola said. At Abby and Libby's age, I would have hesitated long enough out of a natural deference for an adult, even a creepy one, that I would likely have been a victim.

I think it's important to remember how small the window was in which the girls realized they were in danger and had to act. I think there were mere seconds between them thinking BG was creepy and thinking he meant to do them harm.

In the early threads, there is a lot of discussion about the rate at which BG must have approached Abby and Libby, which may be part of what caused them alarm.
Some speculated that BG started trotting toward the girls and that is why he sounded out of breath on the audio.

SeekingJana, in an earlier post, you mentioned how comfortable BG looked in the photos. There was a lot of discussion of that in the earliest thread too. The fact that he had his hands in his pockets and was off to the side rather than being in the middle of the bridge gave many the impression that he had walked that bridge many times before.

Most noted how scary that bridge looked, though most locals had walked it. Websleuthers felt that BG would have his hands out of his pockets and would walk more toward the center of the bridge if he hadn't walked that bridge many times before. The apparent rate of speed with which he approached the girls also indicates his level of comfort on that bridge that is 63 feet above the ground.

Finally, to add to StarryStarryNight's explanation as to why the BG is the perpetrator, there is this early comment:

While LE hasn't specifically stated that BG was the target of the video, several officers have praised "Libby's courage and quick thinking to make the video." To me, that says LE has confirmation that Libby filmed the perpetrator.

 

[Gardenista]

Halfway Across: The Delphi Murders

 

[kizzykat]

Family Tree DNA opens its genealogy database to FBI
3 hours ago

This could be a gamechanger for many unsolved crimes!!

Below is a quote and link regarding that news. This statistic (BBM) really surprised me:

The move is of concern to more than just privacy-minded FamilyTreeDNA customers. One person sharing genetic information also exposes those to whom they are closely related. That’s how police caught the alleged Golden State Killer. A study last year estimated that only 2 percent of the population needs to have done a DNA test for virtually everyone’s genetic information to be represented in that data.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[MistyWaters]

“Indiana State Police and the FBI released a short audio clip of a man saying “down the hill” on February 22. Investigators said the audio came from a video recording on Libby’s cell phone of a man who was apparently on or near the Monon High Bridge on the day the girls went missing and was taken during "criminal activity."...”
One Year Later: Why the Delphi case isn't cold

 

[Rustin Cohle]

I just listened to the voice of RP (arrested Dad) and I detected the same thing! Voice sounds eerily similar.
Also, RP also looks like he has lost major weight in the last few years. His hair is also quite different (looks like he used to shave it.) I am glad you pointed this out....when I heard his voice I got shivers.

Where can we listen to his voice?

 

[Reachingfornettles]

Cancel that

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Where can we listen to his voice?

At the 44 second mark he speaks

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Below is a quote and link regarding that news. This statistic (BBM) really surprised me:

The move is of concern to more than just privacy-minded FamilyTreeDNA customers. One person sharing genetic information also exposes those to whom they are closely related. That’s how police caught the alleged Golden State Killer. A study last year estimated that only 2 percent of the population needs to have done a DNA test for virtually everyone’s genetic information to be represented in that data.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Personally, I don’t care if my dna is shared with LE. If any family member has committed a crime they’ve taken dna for, then bye!

 

[Falling Down]

New article, from Indianapolis Monthly. Kelsi mentions that she dropped the girls off at 1:35 PM.

Halfway Across: The Delphi Murders


That work has involved a tight-lipped approach, though. On Libby’s cellphone, a video and additional audio exist but haven’t been shared, despite the prolonged period without an arrest.

“We continually evaluate that,” Riley says when asked about the possibility of releasing more evidence from the phone. “We talk about it once or twice a week. But at this point in time, no, we won’t be releasing more. We don’t want to put all of our cards on the table.”

Police also requested that the autopsy results be sealed, leaving a situation where the cause of death is identified as homicide, but the manner of the killings in unknown. In Delphi—and around the world on social media—people have grumbled about this approach, arguing that the more information is released, the better the chances of a successful tip leading to a conviction.
That work has involved a tight-lipped approach, though. On Libby’s cellphone, a video and additional audio exist but haven’t been shared, despite the prolonged period without an arrest.

“We continually evaluate that,” Riley says when asked about the possibility of releasing more evidence from the phone. “We talk about it once or twice a week. But at this point in time, no, we won’t be releasing more. We don’t want to put all of our cards on the table.”

Police also requested that the autopsy results be sealed, leaving a situation where the cause of death is identified as homicide, but the manner of the killings in unknown. In Delphi—and around the world on social media—people have grumbled about this approach, arguing that the more information is released, the better the chances of a successful tip leading to a conviction.

 

[Yellow Rose]

I too believe that it was said that there was more audio but that they didn’t want to release it unless absolutely necessary. Honestly I think something horrible happened right under the bridge while on the descent that was captured in the audio. I also think this may have been just ONE of the reasons that LE returned to the end of the bridge to look more closely.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I too believe that it was said that there was more audio but that they didn’t want to release it unless absolutely necessary. Honestly I think something horrible happened right under the bridge while on the descent that was captured in the audio. I also think this may have been just ONE of the reasons that LE returned to the end of the bridge to look more closely.

I agree.
I really think that the additional audio captured their murders....but wouldn't be helpful in solving the case which is why they didn't release it.
No point in putting the families through that unimaginable pain of hearing it.
I think that BG exhibited some unsettling behaviour BEFORE the bridge and when they saw him ON the bridge Libby went into high alert and started the digital captures and the audio. LE mentioned them discussing the man behind them...but didn't say specifically what triggered it...I am convinced he did something inappropriate right before the bridge.
If they do finally catch this and get a confession, it will weed out a false story if they can corroberate the audio with what he says.
JMO

I am hopeful every single day that we finally see 'Arrest' on this thread and that day will come soon.

 

[heartgoesout]

Halfway Across: The Delphi Murders

“We continually evaluate that,” Riley says when asked about the possibility of releasing more evidence from the phone. “We talk about it once or twice a week. But at this point in time, no, we won’t be releasing more. We don’t want to put all of our cards on the table.”

I just don't understand this. It doesn't have to be all cards, but one card could break the case. So my interpretation is they don't need to release anything else because they know who it is.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

“We continually evaluate that,” Riley says when asked about the possibility of releasing more evidence from the phone. “We talk about it once or twice a week. But at this point in time, no, we won’t be releasing more. We don’t want to put all of our cards on the table.”

I just don't understand this. It doesn't have to be all cards, but one card could break the case. So my interpretation is they don't need to release anything else because they know who it is.

Do you have a theory as to why, if they know who it is, then why has there not been an arrest?
I really appreciate it when people throw out their interpretations as it often opens my eyes to things that I may not have thought of...