Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #100

[MassGuy]

Agree. Especially as no one imagined they would not be found alive, perhaps with minor injuries.

Yeah. In that early news broadcast, family members were concerned that the girls were lost, and might be hungry and cold.

Not in their worst nightmares did they imagine this.

 

[tresir2012]

I don't believe it's ever been said that her death was because she snitched. Have you seen that reported? My thoughts were that it was for something different.

IIRC I think my post was answering someone else who said " if " xx was tortured and murdered etc so it was me speculating on speculation. HTH.

 

[Boro55]

Sorry just throwing an idea out

welcome Nkm1989!
no need to apologize stick around don't let them scare you away! tossing out ideas, theories ect...is what we do here.

 

[tresir2012]

That could be possible except ISP just recently stated both girls were murdered within minutes of the video being taken on the bridge. Or do you believe ISP is lying about that and instead one was alive for several hours? What purpose would that serve, given the murderer certainly knows what occurred? I can’t see any reason because if ISP didn’t want to release any details about the time of death the alternative would be not to write this in their press release:

“This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered.”
New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect

That also pretty much has to rule out that the girls were taken elsewhere . So they were killed between 2.30 and 3.29 p.m. otherwise they would have said abducted. Up untill this PC the wording used was "just before criminal activity commenced" IIRC.

 

[rosesfromangels]

There is a lot of full of something around here.
I just can't sometimes, yet I still come back.....

Sometimes I just step away until the Mods get a chance to sweep in and restore purpose and dignity to the thread. The good news is that most of the threads have enough great WS'ers on them that have read and follow the TOS.

Above all, we do everything we can to keep the dignity of the Victim foremost, while other online destinations seem to have a ghoulish obsession for gruesome details. I don't want to see that with these beautiful 2 roses. There is a famous murder case where the victim was left and displayed in the most horrific and humiliating pose you can imagine. What is equally disturbing, is that the Victim is revictimized every time that horrific image makes the rounds on the internet - and it does.

Abby and Libby deserve the caring and protection that LE is providing them. I hope that when arrested, the Perp will be smart enough to plea out and not go to trial. The trial would not only cause even more irreparable damage to their families, but to the Perp's family as well, not to mention traumatizing the jurors. He will not want to put his family through that.

Thank you to all the wonderful WS'ers who are helping to protect the memory of Libby and Abby, and help quash any grisley ghoul seekers.

Libby and Abby - Born on earth, to blossom in Heaven

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Brazenkane]

Just because police are searching for a car does not mean that positive identified DNA evidence does not exist.

The car would place the perpetrator at the scene at the time of the crime.

It is possible to argue against DNA evidence found, because the suspect frequented the area, or was left for some other reason and at a different time.

I suspect with the release of two different sketches the police would want a very watertight case against an individual.

 

[MDATCA]

While we’re talking about these Facebook groups, I genuinely can’t tell if half the members are trolls, or are genuine idiots who don’t know how real life works.

I hope that if we are ever visited by intelligent life, they don’t contact these people first.

It would make all of us look bad.

Thank God for WS.

I read those and on reddit and they sure take huge leaps to get to their conclusion. They ignore known facts and start up crap over things they conjure up.

 

[MistyWaters]

Agree. Especially as no one imagined they would not be found alive, perhaps with minor injuries.

Or they went to a friends house, forgot the ringer was off their phone and lost track of time. Parents/grandparents everywhere know the feeling....impatience, frustration, even anger, then comes anxiety and worry....ending in a huge feeling of relief when they walk in the door or call to apologize. That Libby and Abby were murdered in broad daylight near a public trail system is the last thing they’d have expected, LE nor searchers....the worst possible nightmare.

 

[margarita25]

Omgggggg I just noticed we are officially on Thread 100. No wonder people are having their moon cycles.

This is a first. Never seen a “Thread 100”.

 

[OldCop]

From the Heavy.com article:
“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge CE wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”

This may have been mentioned before. The wording on this has always bothered me. CE was alone. She saw a guy when she first got there then saw another couple when she got on the bridge. This seems to me she is saying she saw a couple of guys. There isn’t “another” couple, man and woman, to refer back to. Is anyone else reading it this way?

 

[mtnlites]

the one thing i'm certain of. if that is my little girl out in the woods that night.
im calling everyone i know i'm grabbing people there that I don't know, anyone that owns a canine, better just pitch a tent close by.
because im not coming out of those woods until i collapse!

I would surely think someone or 2-3 people came in from the cemetary-side of the area near the trail heads meet, where derrick supposedly met FSG how the heck did they miss the girls if they were still there?
just thinking outloud

"pay no mind to the man behind the curtain"

JMOO.

It was almost pitch black and hard to see, even with flashlights. The terrain is uneven. They were on the opposite side of the creek. My guess is that after searching and calling out for them, they may have decided the girls weren't there. They weren't looking for dead bodies.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Just because police are searching for a car does not mean that positive DNA evidence does not exist.

The car would place the perpetrator at the scene at the time of the crime.

It is possible for DNA at a scene to be argued that the suspect frequented the area, or for some other reason and could of been left there at anytime.

I suspect with the release of two different sketches the police would want a very watertight case against an individual.

Totally agree. This case has to be air tight and they do not want this guy getting away with this.

There was a case in my area about 30 years ago involving teens (Vic and perp). Happened after school one day and took place in a park/hiking area. LE conducted a search warrant and found the vic’s panties and the vic’s blood that he tried to clean up in the suspect’s house. He was acquitted because the search warrant that led to the discovery of the evidence at his house was faulty (don’t remember specifics). Not suggesting he’s a suspect in this case - he’s in his 50s now and looks it. Just saying LE has to very careful especially with the two sketches floating around out there.

 

[OhioStateD]

IIRC I think my post was answering someone else who said " if " xx was tortured and murdered etc so it was me speculating on speculation. HTH.

Got it, I'm a newbie so be patient . My speculation is different in this case and why he killed her.

 

[Boro55]

It was almost pitch black and hard to see, even with flashlights. The terrain is uneven. They were on the opposite side of the creek. My guess is that after searching and calling out for them, they may have decided the girls weren't there. They weren't looking for dead bodies.

i understand this but it's feb no leaves if you read my post that if someone or more came in from the cemetary side you are on the right side of creek.
even though we keep faith/hope they're ok, we know they didn't answer texts/phone calls.
to ME that reason enough, but thats just me!
and apparently the searchers either:
1) didn't search long enough.
2) wrong places.
3) they weren't there.

 

[MDATCA]

How good is DNA from perspiration? Is it like saliva, blood or semen or more like touch DNA? As overdressed as he appears to be I would think he would have been sweating up a storm.

 

[Gumbeaux]

From the Heavy.com article:
“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge CE wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”

This may have been mentioned before. The wording on this has always bothered me. CE was alone. She saw a guy when she first got there then saw another couple when she got on the bridge. This seems to me she is saying she saw a couple of guys. There isn’t “another” couple, man and woman, to refer back to. Is anyone else reading it this way?

BBM

Could be, but I would assume this is lazy American English. I assume she meant saw a guy, and then a couple — not another couple of guys. Word usage sure can get in the way of sleuthing!

MOO

 

[BlueShoe]

I keep coming back to the thought that Derrick German calling Libby's phone may have been what interrupted him.

I've long felt the same. I've often thought that if I, or someone close to me had been kidnapped a phone call could help (evidence that someone is searching and criminal had best flee the scene). Unfortunately this criminal only responded by murder. This also causes me to suspect that may one of the girls did recognize him (or since he is local could easily identify him with the help of LE).

 

[StarrChance]

Sorry, I’m sure this has been asked before but can anyone tell me if Abby n Libby went to church/youth group,if so where?

 

[carbuff]

From the Heavy.com article:
“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge CE wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”

This may have been mentioned before. The wording on this has always bothered me. CE was alone. She saw a guy when she first got there then saw another couple when she got on the bridge. This seems to me she is saying she saw a couple of guys. There isn’t “another” couple, man and woman, to refer back to. Is anyone else reading it this way?

Yes, I read it that way too.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Got it, I'm a newbie so be patient . My speculation is different in this case and why he killed her.

Please elaborate