Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[MistyWaters]

In the Renner interview with the sheriff he says the attack was not captured. It’s the 2nd interview about a minute in.

Edit: the Renner interviews are really good. Highly recommend giving them a listen if you can.

That’s interesting but I wonder if “not captured” refers to by Libby’s video and if so, I wouldn’t expect that it was. But the unanswered question would be was it recorded.

4. Captured
If an event is captured in a photograph or on film, it is photographed or filmed.
The incident was captured on video.
The images were captured by TV crews filming outside the base. [be VERB-ed]
...photographers who captured the traumatic scene.
Capture definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

 

[Cutiekitty]

@susiQ this case is eating all of us here up inside and the sudden change of investigative tactics makes optimism understandibly difficult.

In the end, we all have the same desired outcome and will all cry happy tears together when this monster is arrested.

I have so much faith that will happen....I can't exactly put into words why I feel so strongly....but I just do.

JMO

Actually the sudden change in investigative tactics makes me more optimistic. LE isn’t just going to totally switch tactics for no reason. After putting OBG’s face out there for 2 years I’m thinking they got something pretty good to switch the way they did. Asking for witnesses isn’t desperation to me, it’s trying to solidify what they’ve got. JMO

 

[Cutiekitty]

That’s interesting but I wonder if “not captured” refers to by Libby’s video and if so, I wouldn’t expect that it was. But the unanswered question would be was it recorded.

4. Captured
If an event is captured in a photograph or on film, it is photographed or filmed.
The incident was captured on video.
The images were captured by TV crews filming outside the base. [be VERB-ed]
...photographers who captured the traumatic scene.
Capture definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

The conversation immediately preceding the question was about the audio recording(s) so when Renner asked if the attack was captured audio was implied. The way the sheriff answered was pretty definitive.

Edit: just wanted to flesh out the conversation for the people that haven’t heard or can’t play the interview. This isn’t an exact transcript (word for word) and is more of a summary. I only summarized the first couple of minutes.

Renner asks if the sheriff has listened to the full audio? Then he adds the full Snapchat that was captured (I found that interesting might post about it tomorrow). The sheriff says he has.

Renner asks what that was like and the sheriff says the voice was evil and he questioned if that’s the face of evil in the photo of BG he has on his wall. The sheriff adds that they are still in the mindset of looking at The big picture - was BG alone or was someone else involved.

Renner asks if there is anything that leads the sheriff to believe that and he responds no. He adds that you just don’t want to rule anything out and that they want to get BG in the courthouse and say “this is what happened”

Renner asks if the attack itself is on the recording. The sheriff says no.

Renner says that BGs voice, even in the snippet released is the voice that the mask is off and it’s emotionless and saying here’s what I want. The sheriff agrees.

 

[Spartygirl]

If you search for some of the bridge videos, too, you can see just how deteriorated parts of the bridge are. There are some boards with big old knotholes, some missing boards altogether, some that have been weathered down, etc. It might offer a better idea as to how difficult it truly is to walk across it and why, for that reason, BG's gait may not have been his typical one.

We have been there and there was NO way I was walking across that bridge... NOPE.. some boards were missing, some looked so old, I would be afraid to have stepped on it. Now, If I were a teenager again, I probably would have crossed it as I had no fear back then.

 

[insearchoflight]

Here's a link to a PC on CBS4 FB on May 22, 2019. Although it concerns the Flora fire which is still unsolved for 2+ years, a reporter asks a pertinent question concerning the Delphi case and Supt. Doug Carter responds. I think it shocking after 2 plus years. Interesting portion begins at the 18 min. mark or thereabouts. MOO as always.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=336609003644240

In Carters own words, he doesn’t believe in the term “cold case”. He just doesn’t. When they have reached the end they simply start over.

I feel that this “new direction” and new sketch is just that. They reached the end without solving it and have started over from the beginning. New direction, new sketch. Sadly I still feel they have no idea who BG is other than a FBI profile and witness sketches that are not 100% reliable as now we are to assume that the actual BG is somewhere in between these two sketches.

I am not faulting LE. At all, they certainly are putting their all into this case. It’s just a complete random stranger and been incredibly difficult to solve. I, too, believe dna will eventually be the thing to solve this once BG screws up and is in the system or through familial dna.

 

[crhedBngr]

Sorry guys. I'm not ignoring the posts that ask me questions about the bridge. Sorry to go OT, but my seriously ill daughter, who we thought was improving, got worse this afternoon. I didn't want you to think I bailed.

Praying for your daughter to get better quickly, and praying for the rest of you as well. Hang in there.

 

[BNA]

Actually the sudden change in investigative tactics makes me more optimistic. LE isn’t just going to totally switch tactics for no reason. After putting OBG’s face out there for 2 years I’m thinking they got something pretty good to switch the way they did. Asking for witnesses isn’t desperation to me, it’s trying to solidify what they’ve got. JMO

I agree with that sentiment. However, Carter did not say they were changing tactics. He said they were changing strategy. Whether that is due to the fuzzy way he communicates, or said that way intentionally, of a difference of no consequence.....I just do not know.

 

[Evinrude]

I just said the exact same thing - even mentioned the accomplice possibly being under the bridge.

I was going to add to my reply that KG said there were 10-20 kids at the trail when she dropped LG and AW off. Could’ve even been a couple of them.

The only way two or more people could hold a secret is for one to die. Hard for one person to hold a secret too.
No way could a group keep a secret.

Maybe I’m wrong.

Just my opinion and I’ve been wrong so many times.

 

[MistyWaters]

In Carters own words, he doesn’t believe in the term “cold case”. He just doesn’t. When they have reached the end they simply start over.

I feel that this “new direction” and new sketch is just that. They reached the end without solving it and have started over from the beginning. New direction, new sketch. Sadly I still feel they have no idea who BG is other than a FBI profile and witness sketches that are not 100% reliable as now we are to assume that the actual BG is somewhere in between these two sketches.

I am not faulting LE. At all, they certainly are putting their all into this case. It’s just a complete random stranger and been incredibly difficult to solve. I, too, believe dna will eventually be the thing to solve this once BG screws up and is in the system or through familial dna.

The reporter asked Carter a couple times if the case was close to getting solved. The first time he started in the direction of the 42,000 tips and she said she wasn’t asking about tips, was there going to be an arrest soon. Carter’s reply was the case was further ahead than two years ago and then he went off in the direction of him not believing any case is ever cold (your first paragraph).

Unfortunately he didn’t offer much in the way of optimism. It seems that “one tip” identifying the killer is what they’re still looking for.

 

[somequestions]

When you look at the locations associated with this case, what is interesting is how someone who, if they were not from Delphi, would know about the Monon High Bridge trail?

I do not think either sketch is correct and after such a long time am starting to think police really do not know what the suspect in this case looks like. So they are pushing out sketches of "witnesses" in the hopes that someone will come forward and maybe identify an individual who may or may not look like either of the two sketches released. They get lucky. This could be why they are now so insistent on reminding everyone that a sketch is not the same as a photograph.

In my opinion, I think the murderer of Abigail Williams and Liberty German is a truck driver. I think there may also be the possibility that this case could be linked to other unsolved cases, but in terms of the evidence only Liberty German has provided any type of factual evidence concerning the person who may responsible in the murders. Any links to other murders is just speculation until there is some evidence to back it up.

I think the person involved is someone who enjoys hiking or walking in areas of solitude. I think their job affords them the time to take in these areas when they are not working. I would expect they have a great deal of knowledge and may even own books on different hiking trails in different states.

I think in cases where there are sketches of a very viable suspect sometimes people can focus so much on that identification over the examination of the totality of the evidence. A picture on a phone seems like a fact that is easy to identify and match up to a real person. Juries love physical evidence and so do people who look into the murder of two teens on the Monon High Bridge in Delphi Indiana.

But I think if this case gets solved it is probably going to be because someone tells police, "There is this guy I worked with who maybe kind of looks like the suspect on Liberty German's phone." And a detective follows up on that lead. It is ok to think and have theories. I am sure someone else would argue that the case will be solved by DNA evidence, etc? I have a strange feeling police thought early on in the investigation that the case would be solved either through the picture on Liberty German's phone or their sketches And that has not happened.

Because haven't 46,000(?) of us seen the Delphi murder suspect?

 

[Charlot123]

There is an interesting mismatch. On one hand, I think Libby had a very good memory. And she had variable interests. And she was curious. I never knew her, of course, but I imagine her to be a Gen-Z Miss Marple in her teenage years.
So I bet had he BG lived in Delphi, she’d recognize him.

So either he lives somewhere around, maybe on a farm, or, he is not from Delphi at all, but he knows the area very well.

Maybe he spent years in jail, and recently came out?

- I assume the DNA they are hoping for is simply not his. Because otherwise, even with all current limitations of Gedmatch, there should have been some matches. He might have had DNA-matches, relatives, in CODIS, that would be workable.

 

[Charlot123]

The only way two or more people could hold a secret is for one to die. Hard for one person to hold a secret too.
No way could a group keep a secret.

Maybe I’m wrong.

Just my opinion and I’ve been wrong so many times.

It depends on what are the repercussions of telling a secret.

If it is about someone’s having an affair, oh surely. I give people 30 seconds to blab it out. Even about own affair. Think Monica L.

If it is about own crime that will 100% provide the people committing it life sentence, and maybe death penalty, all involved might keep silence.

 

[sunshineray]

I just said the exact same thing - even mentioned the accomplice possibly being under the bridge.

I was going to add to my reply that KG said there were 10-20 kids at the trail when she dropped LG and AW off. Could’ve even been a couple of them.

Cutiekitty, KG said she saw a group of 10-20 kids there where she dropped Abby and Libby off? Or the girls had told her a large group had made plans to be there?

 

[sunshineray]

The reporter asked Carter a couple times if the case was close to getting solved. The first time he started in the direction of the 42,000 tips and she said she wasn’t asking about tips, was there going to be an arrest soon. Carter’s reply was the case was further ahead than two years ago and then he went off in the direction of him not believing any case is ever cold (your first paragraph).

Unfortunately he didn’t offer much in the way of optimism. It seems that “one tip” identifying the killer is what they’re still looking for.

Interesting to me was the way ISP Carter talked about investigating isn't about what police think, it's about what the know. He talked very specifically about sticking to the what they know, the facts, as opposed to what they think might be the case. He made me think about that April PC, what he'd said.

Then the shocker was very pregnant pause when asked if like in the Flora case, were there family members in the Delphi case that they needed unfettered access to also. He said they were greatly different cases, not apples and apples but but apples and oranges but then when pressed said the vast majority of family had been cleared. That leaves that question answered but open-ended. AJMO

 

[Thelastleg]

Interesting, something I’ve never noticed before, no wonder some investigations take time.

The source is My Case which links to this document -

More than a year after the murders it appears it was required that Abby’s mom seek Court authorization in order to become Abby’s Legal Representative so her gmail data could be obtained from Google.
Expired Document Link - MyCase

Would it be possible to post that link again. It says that document expires after 2 hours. Hope I've done this right. First post.

 

[susiQ]

It depends on what are the repercussions of telling a secret.

If it is about someone’s having an affair, oh surely. I give people 30 seconds to blab it out. Even about own affair. Think Monica L.

If it is about own crime that will 100% provide the people committing it life sentence, and maybe death penalty, all involved might keep silence.

Yes, indeed. It kept the Wagners about the massacre of 8 people silent. And I believe they were all SO culpable that even had a divorce taken place amongst them, they may not have told.

 

[Falling Down]

Would it be fair to say the path ends here because that’s the terminus of the south end of the bridge?

The trail ends at the NW end of the bridge. Until recently, the bridge was still owned by CSX transportation, and was considered private property. It is now owned by the preservation group which wants to fix it up.

Delphi's Monon High Bridge to be repaired

JMO

-FD

 

[Falling Down]

When you look at the locations associated with this case, what is interesting is how someone who, if they were not from Delphi, would know about the Monon High Bridge trail?

I do not think either sketch is correct and after such a long time am starting to think police really do not know what the suspect in this case looks like. So they are pushing out sketches of "witnesses" in the hopes that someone will come forward and maybe identify an individual who may or may not look like either of the two sketches released. They get lucky. This could be why they are now so insistent on reminding everyone that a sketch is not the same as a photograph.

In my opinion, I think the murderer of Abigail Williams and Liberty German is a truck driver. I think there may also be the possibility that this case could be linked to other unsolved cases, but in terms of the evidence only Liberty German has provided any type of factual evidence concerning the person who may responsible in the murders. Any links to other murders is just speculation until there is some evidence to back it up.

I think the person involved is someone who enjoys hiking or walking in areas of solitude. I think their job affords them the time to take in these areas when they are not working. I would expect they have a great deal of knowledge and may even own books on different hiking trails in different states.

I think in cases where there are sketches of a very viable suspect sometimes people can focus so much on that identification over the examination of the totality of the evidence. A picture on a phone seems like a fact that is easy to identify and match up to a real person. Juries love physical evidence and so do people who look into the murder of two teens on the Monon High Bridge in Delphi Indiana.

But I think if this case gets solved it is probably going to be because someone tells police, "There is this guy I worked with who maybe kind of looks like the suspect on Liberty German's phone." And a detective follows up on that lead. It is ok to think and have theories. I am sure someone else would argue that the case will be solved by DNA evidence, etc? I have a strange feeling police thought early on in the investigation that the case would be solved either through the picture on Liberty German's phone or their sketches And that has not happened.

Because haven't 46,000(?) of us seen the Delphi murder suspect?

Many people were aware of the bridge before the murders, but had never seen it in person. Railroad and industrial artifact fans from far and wide knew about it. It's the 2nd tallest bridge here in Indiana, and just happens to be a very old railroad trestle/viaduct which has withstood time, and I wouldn't doubt there have been efforts to have it torn down.

I've driven right around the area in question, the bridge is not easy to find just driving by there. The spot where the girls were dropped off is easy to miss, even driving at 35 mph on C.R. 300. Considering the latest PC, it appears that LE believe the vehicle seen at the old CPS building is involved in the case. So, the perp/BG would have known about the trail head by the Freedom Bridge over IN 25, and would have known that if he parked at the abandoned building, he could walk a short distance, get on the main trail, and could walk a ways and be at the bridge. Why didn't he park on the other side of IN 25? We all know the answer. Everything about BG's movements make sense to me, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Each section of his path(s) that day scream "efficient", to me. Quick, no wasted time or energy. No reason to waste time walking longer distances, unless he was going out of his way to conceal himself, perhaps after the murders.

Not only do I believe he knew where the bridge is located, he'd timed every part of his plan/fantasy/what have you. I would venture to guess BG timed the walk from the trail head to the bridge, the walk across the 850 foot bridge, and the walk from the SE end to the creek, across from the CS, which is a short distance covered in a matter of several minutes, according to YouTube videos I've seen. The distance from the SE end to the CS is much shorter than the length of the bridge. The distance from the slight bend in the trail, to the NW end of the bridge, is maybe 800 feet. So BG had to A) Get the girls off and away from the SE end of the bridge, and B) Down to the creek, as quickly as possible. That way, line-of-sight, nobody would have seen the group in the gorge, even one person or a group if they were on the trail.

JMO

-FD

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

I just watched the ID episode ‘Still a Mystery’”Down The Hill” .
They say there’s additional audio and video but not released as it’s only information known to their killer.

But Libby’s mother does say that Libby said something like, ‘well the path ends here, we can’t go any farther”. :cry: And Libby’s sweet sister, my heart breaks for her, but also for all of both of their family.
Nothing really new otherwise, I’m sure most here have already seen it anyway, I’m always behind .
It’s just so horrific what those sweet precious girls were put through, I hope and pray they find this psycho killer, and very soon.

Re the ID episode..DTH:

I tend to A that there was little that was new, sunshineray in his summary mentioned the comment about the searchers and shoe. This was interpretive from KG statement and the Narrator's continuation ( as Sunshineray explained).

I know we scrutinise each word/intonation etc for any new insight etc so im taking my own observation with this in mind.

I heard the Narrator say at one point ' Autopsies were conducted , and dna collected'

It's really sloppily written imho . Does it imply dna was collected at the autopsies? Therefore from the bodies! Or does it intend to mean autopsies conducted and dna collected from the CS ( esp as the visual is still lingering on the wooded area of the CS )!

Sends me crackers!!

 

[Cutiekitty]

Cutiekitty, KG said she saw a group of 10-20 kids there where she dropped Abby and Libby off? Or the girls had told her a large group had made plans to be there?

It’s not clear where the kids were, but she said when she dropped them off. I’m thinking this was information gathered after the fact and maybe KG didn’t actually see the 10-20 people. It’s in the second KG interview with Renner. Then it sounds like she said there were kids there even earlier, but there was a lull in activity during the crime. The interview is a little muffled with this 2nd statement so don’t quote me.