Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[Deleted member 278]

Was thinking about the two weirdest men in my large apartment complex...both have lived here at least as long as I have so 5 years or more...and I could not begin to guess their ages. Either could be late 20’s to 40’s as far as I can tell. Both kind of lumpish in their own ways, neither very memorable except for being weird, imo. One stands outside of his apartment, just staring. The other lives with his mother and even when he is leaving for five minutes to check the mail, I hear him call back “I love you” to his mom lol. Neither seems to work, or at least they always seem to be home.

(i walk my dog a lot here so tend to catch bits and pieces, it seems...)

Anyway...if challeged, I would be hard pressed to assign an age.

"Lumpish"?

 

[JenniD]

When the girls were on the trail they recorded their conversation regarding some guy they saw or encountered- later “creepy guy” was added by BP. I think we all assume the guy was BG and that is why Libby did the video- but do we know if the audio recording regarding “creepy guy” was anywhere near the time of the video
Is it possible they aren’t related at all?

Eta- corrected spelling

 

[Boxer]

I agree that one aspect of the case that is hard to understand is where the person who killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German parked at the Monon High Bridge area?

As for movements that day what I am about to write is my opinion.

I think after the suspect took control of the girls he marched them across Deer Creek because he was thinking like a searcher and being proactive about witnesses. Who is going to search for Abby and Libby by crossing a creek without proper shoes? They would get all wet. The creek provides a boundary for some privacy. I think when he was done with committing the crime he may have even walked back across the creek leaving the boundary between him and his crime. As long as nobody crosses the creek after him or notices his wet shoes/pants while leaving no one is going to put it together. It made me wonder if the sketches are from witnesses who think they saw the suspect entering or leaving the Monon High Bridge area?

Does anyone else agree? I have seen so many others write that they think the girls were found across the creek for other reasons like trying to run away, etc. I try to look at it from a criminal psychology perspective.

In a case like this when you have so many tips the problem is that you have to determine which ones are important. The tip to solve this case is probably in the pile somewhere. Someone just needs to find it.

That makes sense.
I think that one can access the area also by continuing on informal trails from the north end of the bridge to the back of the cemetery, and then I believe there is a trail down to the creek. The flat where they were found is a little east of that trail from the back of the cemetery area. MOO it looks like a good camping spot.

 

[Jabarn]

I agree that one aspect of the case that is hard to understand is where the person who killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German parked at the Monon High Bridge area?

As for movements that day what I am about to write is my opinion.

I think after the suspect took control of the girls he marched them across Deer Creek because he was thinking like a searcher and being proactive about witnesses. Who is going to search for Abby and Libby by crossing a creek without proper shoes? They would get all wet. The creek provides a boundary for some privacy. I think when he was done with committing the crime he may have even walked back across the creek leaving the boundary between him and his crime. As long as nobody crosses the creek after him or notices his wet shoes/pants while leaving no one is going to put it together. It made me wonder if the sketches are from witnesses who think they saw the suspect entering or leaving the Monon High Bridge area?

Does anyone else agree? I have seen so many others write that they think the girls were found across the creek for other reasons like trying to run away, etc. I try to look at it from a criminal psychology perspective.

In a case like this when you have so many tips the problem is that you have to determine which ones are important. The tip to solve this case is probably in the pile somewhere. Someone just needs to find it.

This case is so odd, because you would expect a witness (after the crime happened) to notice BG was wet, which would probably be the case if he led or chased them across Deer Creek. That is assuming the witness saw him on the far side of the creek headed along the cemetery side. We just don’t know where the witness(es) saw him. Does anyone know when?

With Carter’s emotional speech and the new sketch (new to the public, I guess), I do lean toward investigators being mislead in some way.

 

[Jabarn]

When the girls were on the trail they recorded their conversation regarding some guy they saw or encountered- later “creepy guy” was added by BP. I think we all assume the guy was BG and that is why Libby did the video- but do we know if the audio recording regarding “creepy guy” was anywhere near the time of the video
Is it possible they aren’t related at all?

Eta- corrected spelling

It’s never been clarified, as far as I can tell, if the voice recording and the images were together, but given the video seems a distance from where Libby filmed, and the clarity of his voice on the audio recording, it might be they were separate events. Someone with better understanding of audio and visual aspects might chime in.

(I think some might think BG is saying, “guys <long pause> down the hill” at the same time as the vid of him walking, so would like to have clarification).

 

[Tiger Stripes]

"Lumpish"?

Think it may be something like being "glunky".

 

[cluciano63]

"Lumpish"?

Well, oddly shaped...

 

[Jax49]

"Lumpish"?

roughly or clumsily formed or shaped.
"those large and lumpish hands could produce exquisitely fine work"

• (of a person) stupid and lethargic

 

[Cutiekitty]

It’s never been clarified, as far as I can tell, if the voice recording and the images were together, but given the video seems a distance from where Libby filmed, and the clarity of his voice on the audio recording, it might be they were separate events. Someone with better understanding of audio and visual aspects might chime in.

(I think some might think BG is saying, “guys <long pause> down the hill” at the same time as the vid of him walking, so would like to have clarification).

I think you are correct - the audio and video are separate events and not recorded at the same time.

I’m wondering if the mechanism for creating the recordings has been determined outside of LE (SC, phone video, etc). The photo of AW is clearly SC. I think the video could also be SC (saved to memories and not posted), but I think the audio recording is the phone.

 

[JenniD]

It’s never been clarified, as far as I can tell, if the voice recording and the images were together, but given the video seems a distance from where Libby filmed, and the clarity of his voice on the audio recording, it might be they were separate events. Someone with better understanding of audio and visual aspects might chime in.

(I think some might think BG is saying, “guys <long pause> down the hill” at the same time as the vid of him walking, so would like to have clarification).

I am referring to the girls “girl talk” recording where they mentioned a guy-not the DTH audio

 

[Jabarn]

I think you are correct - the audio and video are separate events and not recorded at the same time.

I’m wondering if the mechanism for creating the recordings has been determined outside of LE (SC, phone video, etc). The photo of AW is clearly SC. I think the video could also be SC (saved to memories and not posted), but I think the audio recording is the phone.

I wonder about that, too. I am not a Snapchat wizard, so don’t know how she recorded the video. What I do know it wasn’t shared by any friends who may have seen it on Snapchat. I haven’t seen any rumors of that either.

That makes me believe she recorded BG directly by the phone itself, which may or may not have had time to upload to the cloud, like Apple devices do (and the public wouldn’t have access). Maybe a family member accessed it through the cloud, but I do think the phone was found on the scene, as has been shared here. Maybe the vid was found on the phone. Maybe the private cloud account. Maybe both.

 

[FleurQualia]

I am referring to the girls “girl talk” recording where they mentioned a guy-not the DTH audio

Was that from the ID special?

 

[TL4S]

I agree that one aspect of the case that is hard to understand is where the person who killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German parked at the Monon High Bridge area?

As for movements that day what I am about to write is my opinion.

I think after the suspect took control of the girls he marched them across Deer Creek because he was thinking like a searcher and being proactive about witnesses. Who is going to search for Abby and Libby by crossing a creek without proper shoes? They would get all wet. The creek provides a boundary for some privacy. I think when he was done with committing the crime he may have even walked back across the creek leaving the boundary between him and his crime. As long as nobody crosses the creek after him or notices his wet shoes/pants while leaving no one is going to put it together. It made me wonder if the sketches are from witnesses who think they saw the suspect entering or leaving the Monon High Bridge area?

Does anyone else agree? I have seen so many others write that they think the girls were found across the creek for other reasons like trying to run away, etc. I try to look at it from a criminal psychology perspective.

In a case like this when you have so many tips the problem is that you have to determine which ones are important. The tip to solve this case is probably in the pile somewhere. Someone just needs to find it.

I'm perplexed with the creek crossing, as well. IMO, crossing a creek, getting cold and wet right before committing murder, then chance being seen wet and muddy afterwards, would not be on a criminal's agenda.

I'm only guessing, but I don't think the girls ran across on their own accord. But if BG led them across, why? I don't see the purpose of getting wet and cold (icy water and being wet on a 40 degree day is COLD) unless his route out was close and out of public eye (thus my thoughts about the cemetery). Either way I can't make full sense of it.

The only way I'd go into a creek and get wet on a winter's day would be if I lived close by and could walk or drive back in very short order. If I was far from transportation or home, I'd do whatever I could to avoid getting wet. JMO

 

[Jabarn]

I am referring to the girls “girl talk” recording where they mentioned a guy-not the DTH audio

Oh, gotcha. Yes, that is an important point. There is clearly information that hasn’t been released for the public to hear. My understanding is the girl talk was mentioned by BP, who may have heard it when she met with investigators and heard some excerpts from the video not shared with the public. I am not sure if she heard all of it. Is that what you mean? (Sorry)

 

[Jabarn]

I'm perplexed with the creek crossing, as well. IMO, crossing a creek, getting cold and wet right before committing murder, then chance being seen wet and muddy afterwards, would not be on a criminal's agenda.

I'm only guessing, but I don't think the girls ran across on their own accord. But if BG led them across, why? I don't see the purpose of getting wet and cold (icy water and being wet on a 40 degree day is COLD) unless his route out was close and out of public eye (thus my thoughts about the cemetery). Either way I can't make full sense of it.

It makes me wonder if any witness even saw him at all after the crime. Maybe before. I’m hogging the thread, for sure. I’ll be quiet now - and listen.

 

[JenniD]

Was that from the ID special?

Might have been. I know I’ve seen it a couple of times where BP was being interviewed

 

[TL4S]

It makes me wonder if any witness even saw him at all after the crime. Maybe before. I’m hogging the thread, for sure. I’ll be quiet now - and listen.

You're not hogging, you're just here while you can be, like the rest of us. Say your piece!

But yes, I'm wondering the same thing. And if nobody saw him afterwards, why is that?

 

[JenniD]

Oh, gotcha. Yes, that is an important point. There is clearly information that hasn’t been released for the public to hear. My understanding is the girl talk was mentioned by BP, who may have heard it when she met with investigators and heard some excerpts from the video not shared with the public. I am not sure if she heard all of it. Is that what you mean? (Sorry)

I am trying to determine if the girls recording (audio) where they mentioned some guy had anything whatsoever with the video recording of BG or were there 2 separate people- one they mentioned in their recording about a “guy” and then f course the video of BG

 

[Cutiekitty]

I wonder about that, too. I am not a Snapchat wizard, so don’t know how she recorded the video. What I do know it wasn’t shared by any friends who may have seen it on Snapchat. I haven’t seen any rumors of that either.

That makes me believe she recorded BG directly by the phone itself, which may or may not have had time to upload to the cloud, like Apple devices do (and the public wouldn’t have access). Maybe a family member accessed it through the cloud, but I do think the phone was found on the scene, as has been shared here. Maybe the vid was found on the phone. Maybe the private cloud account. Maybe both.

You can record a video via SC, but you have to hold the button down. Then you can post it and your friends can see it or save it to memories and it doesn’t go out to anyone. The “memories” are contained within SC. Anyone that knows the user name and password can access the account from any device and look at the memories.

I don’t think it was stored in the cloud either just because iCloud backup is defaulted to use WiFi only in order to save data. They’d have to go in and manually turn back up with data on. I would not do that especially for a teenage girl. SC is a data hog by itself and having iCloud backups via data too....ugh. Hope they had an unlimited plan because that data is going to get eaten up fast!

It has to have been in an app like SC or actually on the phone. Knowing is not going to solve this case and I really don’t need to know. I’m just curious.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Dbm