Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[Charlot123]

I keep thinking about the clothes. In the witness descriptions who was wearing the blue jacket..the OBG or the NBG? Or perhaps it was neither and the clothes were put on just before crossing the bridge. If there were two people then the witnesses must have also described their clothes. JMO that nobody saw him after because he walked through the trees and up to the road.

He had to get rid of these clothes because of blood. He also had to take some of girls’ clothes, the ones he thought might have his DNA. Where did he put them? His backpack? CPS building? Or discarded in some dumpster? Or took home and burned?

 

[Charlot123]

The only thing that occurs to me is there were two similar looking guys on the trail that day, maybe brothers or cousins, and witnesses have seen one or the other. Maybe they are both associated with the vehicle parked at the CPS building. This is the confusing factor. MOO.

ETA. Or witnesses are being cagey to protect the killer because they are afraid.

TBH, there are many people in Delphi that look alike. Maybe 4th cousins from the early families that settled there.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

He had to get rid of these clothes because of blood. He also had to take some of girls’ clothes, the ones he thought might have his DNA. Where did he put them? His backpack? CPS building? Or discarded in some dumpster? Or took home and burned?

I hate to even ask this but is there blood if someone is strangled?

 

[zencompass]

He had to get rid of these clothes because of blood. He also had to take some of girls’ clothes, the ones he thought might have his DNA. Where did he put them? His backpack? CPS building? Or discarded in some dumpster? Or took home and burned?

Dear Charlot123,

Very interesting thoughts!

I've always wondered where that blue jacket went.

 

[Charlot123]

I hate to even ask this but is there blood if someone is strangled?

They say Libby put up fight. I assume she scratched him, at least. I also assume that he knew about DNA under the nails. MOO. I think the scene was anything but peaceful specifically because he was trying to get rid of evidence- own DNA.

BTW, if we assume Carter is interested in that car in conjunction to murders, the car could be around till 5pm since someone was getting rid of evidence. (Not where everyone is searching. He is a local, he knows where to go.)

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I'm not sure why you started with "no," for I didnt see anything in ur response that really applied to show that I was wrong in my thinking. ‍

I didnt say she knew she would be killed...but the consensus is that she had the wherewithal to record the guy, but doing that doesnt stop him from proceeding. He likely didn't even know he was being recorded.

If she felt danger, or this 6th sense u mention, filming wouldnt prevent the danger from coming. Calling someone, or pretending to call someone would/could.

Unless he approached quickly and she had no choice...she had no time to call or act like she was on the phone with someone, chosing, instead, to record him is a strange choice imo. And I think most if not all of us has had a sense of danger before. I dont think that is an exclusive feeling to just u and Libby. So to use that to discredit my point/question is also a strange choice to me.

Your point is well taken and these type things have been discussed before. Why didn’t the girls call 911, call someone, run in the opposite direction, scream, etc, etc.
The fact is none of us knows exactly how this tragedy unfolded for Libby and Abby or what may have driven them to do certain things and not do others. They reacted as things happened. No sitting and mulling things over for awhile, and then formulating a plan.
I know we all speculate....this whole case is nothing but speculation for us....but for me, just speaking for me, speculating about what these children SHOULD have done is unnecessary.

 

[Charlot123]

Dear Charlot123,

Very interesting thoughts!

I've always wondered where that blue jacket went.

He either burned, or buried it all. It does not matter, two years later, it has decayed enough.

 

[zencompass]

I do wonder, however, if someone who is related to B.G. may possibly have noticed that his jacket was missing after the murders.

Just a thought.

 

[Charlot123]

One more idea. If he was interested in crime, he might have read some detective novels/true crime stories. Not everything is on Kindle. He might have checked things from a local library, esp as a kid.

(In our area, the libraries are interconnected).

Someone might check people’s reading lists through Carrol County exchange, I bet there will be some crime genre books there. If they have a suspect. Not now - before 2017, when he was thinking of it. If they keep school reading lists, even better. In my area, everything was computerized eons ago.

 

[Charlot123]

I do wonder, however, if someone who is related to B.G. may possibly have noticed that his jacket was missing after the murders.

Just a thought.

“Oh, I donated it to the poor”.

In fact, washing it and dumping in clothes collector was probably what he did.

 

[JenniD]

He either burned, or buried it all. It does not matter, two years later, it has decayed enough.

Could have taken gravel roads back home and just threw it into a ditch. Might have put it inside one of the large flower pots at cemetery it was just before Valentine’s Day so there were lots of flowers - if there was a funeral next day (??) could have dropped in open grave. I do think his attire looked pretty layered so he could discard the outer layers and walk out undetected. Is there a local hospital. Bloody clothing in a red hazmat bag would never be questioned.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I've read up quite a bit on the turnaround for DNA searches and data to come back, from what I gather it could take months or even years. By that I mean if the DNA doesn't immediately match a person, and they (LE, FBI, etc.). resort to links to relatives, it could take months or even years. Parabon doesn't take too long, from what I gather, it just costs some money up front. The forensic genealogy stuff can take many months or even years.

I watched videos about the GSK last night, including interviews with some of the investigators. They linked GSK to a cousin who had submitted their DNA, and the link was a relative or relatives they both were related to via a marriage in the 1800's. Figure GSK was born in the 40's, so this could have been a great or maybe great-great set of grandparents, I'm speculating. Retired detective Holes said it took over four months, but just imagine the resources poured into that case once they had a familial link, some names, names of ancestors, etc. Four months, because they knew they were definitely on the trail of one of the most notorious criminals in American history, and there was a chance he was still alive. Exhaustive, painstaking work. Walking through cemeteries, collaborating with genealogy experts, etc. Figure in IRS and social security records, that sort of thing, and sure it can speed things up a bit, but both have been around for only so long.

The genealogy research I've done on some of my ancestors was painstaking, and I'm probably lucky I found much at all, versus a lot of people who try it. Things can get muddled quite a bit prior to 1930. Stands to reason why LE are turning to experts in these cases, now that the DNA tech has advanced so much in recent years.

I hope they have usable DNA in the Delphi case. I don't think LE have a clue who did it, however I do believe something has changed in recent months, the PC from February was kind of weak, I thought. Now with their new "direction" I wonder what information they're focusing on.

Even if they have DNA and it's being processed, examined, chased down, etc., it could take some time to flesh out. I think two things are key to the puzzle, 1. DNA, and 2. A credible tip which leads to a prime suspect.

JMO

-FD

Great post! Yes, it will take time, but they WILL get him. The clock is ticking on BG’s days of freedom.

Here’s a case brought to justice through DNA. Took 20 years.
DNA cold case: Alabama man charged in 1999 double murder of teen girls

 

[crhedBngr]

Some posts back, I had indicated that I wanted to post the Minivan Traveler interview with Carter. I received word from Tricia today that I could do so.

The slideshow and the Google maps are interesting.

Here's the link:

 

[crhedBngr]

Oh, and Good Morning to All.

 

[nearsouth]

I was reading another's theory about just this and I'll share it because it could explain it, just could, not saying it does

They said, what if one of the witnesses for that composite sketch, the first one released was said to be a compilation I believe, what if they are actually the killer posing as just another hiker who came forward, describing himself in all those clothes.

What if the police discounted NSG witness's description, because it didn't match the combined others and it looked just like one of those other witnesses on the trail that day that had come forward? Oh that was so and so they saw, yeah we talked to him. Maybe because of who he was, he was cleared as soon as he came forward?

Something like that had never occured to me so I thought I'd mention it.

This is possible and I suppose would line up with some of Carter's statements (although there's sometimes a fog of war around what he states) - even if some of what Carter says you hear in many other cases such as 'hiding in plain sight' etc.

However, it seems very risky to 'inject' yourself into an investigation and give statements that would physically place yourself in the park on the day of the murders.

I'm guessing (like others here have postulated) that the sketch drawn within days of the murders was discounted just b/c it didn't really correlate to the other witness descriptions.

I keep wondering over and over what could have changed to believe the guy was indeed younger than originally thought (or at least appeared younger). There has to be something that came up (witness) or some kind of result (DNA or whatever) between Feb and Apr 2019 right?

Seems to me that they're hoping someone will recognize BG's mannerisms and come forward.

Anyone think they'll release more audio/video?

 

[Jax49]

I asked and Tricia has given permission for this video of Doug Carter's YouTube interview from last week to be posted!

Thank you Tricia!

LOL, I got permission too. Wonder how many of us asked? Anyway, I'm glad T allowed us to link and discuss.

ETA: There was a bit of discussion earlier today, if anyone is interested.

IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

 

[cluciano63]

Did police say either girl put up a fight? My impression was that L’s grandfather said she would put up a fight, was a fighter, etc...but not that it was known she did, or had an opportunity to do so. Also we have no idea whether or not blood was present at the scene.

 

[FleurQualia]

I really wish they released more info. I have to believe they don't because it might jeopardize the case, but it's annoying knowing they have a lot more video and audio than they're showing the public.

I mean, I understand the audio because they mentioned early on it contained recording of the attack, and since we know it happened quickly it might've been soon/right after the "down the hill" comment. And I am sure that they don't release it because 1) it contains information regarding their manner of deaths, and right now only the killer and LE know what that is and 2) it would be in poor taste, especially towards the family, to release audio of two girls being murdered to the public.

But I feel like there is probably more video of him walking the bridge? IDK. Just speculating.

 

[Charlot123]

Your point is well taken and these type things have been discussed before. Why didn’t the girls call 911, call someone, run in the opposite direction, scream, etc, etc.
The fact is none of us knows exactly how this tragedy unfolded for Libby and Abby or what may have driven them to do certain things and not do others. They reacted as things happened. No sitting and mulling things over for awhile, and then formulating a plan.
I know we all speculate....this whole case is nothing but speculation for us....but for me, just speaking for me, speculating about what these children SHOULD have done is unnecessary.

You know, she felt something, but he did not have "murder" written all over him. This is why she might have felt uncomfortable calling 911. I think he pulled a gun at them, too fast. She probably did not foresee it. In hindsight, there are enough weird people around, and not everyone is a murderer. She did what she could... We might discuss what is the best thing to do, under the circumstances, but they had no way of knowing he was a killer.

 

[raja]

Ok now, that new interview tells me when he says “somewhere between the two” he is referring to the 2 sketches. If that is the case I wonder if OBG’s witness was actually Libby’s video? Did the people with the FBI or Disney do a sketch based on what they think they see in the video? There just looks like such an age difference.