Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

[Tiger Stripes]

That reminds me of Yingying Zhang's case in Illinois He was into a lot of the dark web games

That brings to mind a not-too-often suggested POI (who is now behind bars); would have been just a couple of hours' drive to head to Delphi. He could have attended sporting events, or have had friends at Purdue that he visited from time to time, so... driving another 15-20 minutes to Delphi from W. Lafayette would have been easy.

Was the crime in Feb., 2017 in Delphi -- in plain daylight -- a "practice" crime (hate writing that term) before doing such a crime in Champaign-Urbana? (This is probably a wild theory, since BC is not local to Delphi.)

 

[margarita25]

I do think sexual assault was absolutely the motive. However, I’m really hung up on the two girls together aspect. So unusual. I don’t quite understand the psychological driver there. So risky.
ETA that if the sketch is right, his face looks too full and nourished to be a meth head IMO.

amateur opinion and speculation

I felt this way too about the element of the dual victims, but I have since come across many other older cases where two girls were killed. So, I’m not as willing as I used to be to use this as a unique identifier, moo.

I also think it’s possible that BG doesn’t necessarily “specialize” in just pairs.

 

[margarita25]

Dbm

 

[MJPeony]

Hi MJPeony, that was actually me who said today it was fascinating how many different views we can all have.

I’m not just opposite of you today lol- I had a respectful discussion with another member earlier about how we disagree too - And that’s okay! I wonder if Carter, Leazenby and Riley disagree with each other sometimes.

I actually saw that one time on a true crime episode: 3 LEs sitting in a boardroom, and all 3 of them leaned towards a different POI.

Haha- indeed it was!

 

[sunshineray]

Earlier I stated “But with mass shooters, their motives and elements are often related to notoriety, mass casualties, automatic rifles...”

I do want to clarify that some SKs are motivated by the aspect of notoriety, but with the mass shooters it’s like a type of martyrdom, they don’t mind dying in the process. With SKs, there seems to be a clear differentiation between the hunter and the hunted.

There are some similarities again, not discounting that, as ultimately both of their goals are to kill, but as @Charlot123 mentioned, there is that element of sexual sadism, etc.

Is he a sadist? Only LE knows. My guess would be yes he is, moo.



Yes, agreed, was going to say the same thing about the RSOs and SP.

As for trucker, I’d be willing to bet this is something that they have strongly considered.

Was it 6000 billboards they originally had? Are they all gone now?

Something made them really shift focus, or “hone in” back in April. I wonder what that was.

I remember watching Bundy being interviewed when it was getting close to his execution and him being asked what he thought was the contributor to his serial killing, what had led him there. It was a chillingly frank and quick answer, and all this is paraphrasing, he said he thought *advertiser censored* twisted his mind. He said he started very young viewing it and it became a lifelong obsession.

I know not every person viewing *advertiser censored* has it turn into to a problem. Not every viewer becomes an attacker of women but I feel in his case it incubated a misogyny his environment generated early and then helped turn that violent.

I think back on that Bundy interview and wonder if BG is also cut from this cloth, this background to prey on those he considers minimal, even when in the form of two sweet and innocent young girls.

 

[margarita25]

I came across this quote again from John Douglas, expert profiler:


BBM
“Former FBI Special Agent John Douglas, aka the Mindhunter, told Inside Edition the audio, of which an extended clip was only recently released, may hold a vital clue, specifically the use of the word "guys."

"Guys says to me that maybe he may know these victims," said Douglas. "Or it's a person ... someone who has interaction with children."

He added that the person who killed the two likely has some kind of "criminal history."

"You don't wake up one day and commit a double homicide like this," he said. "There has to be some kind of trail."

Douglas, who inspired Jonathan Groff's character on the Netflix series "Mindhunter," also addressed the recent, and chilling, suggestion by police that the killer might have been present at a news conferencelast month in which the extended clip was released, together with the video of the suspect and a new police sketch.

"That tactic, if they're going to do it, they should have done it two years ago," Douglas said. "They should also be checking and looking to see people who were here, now they came up with some reason to leave the area."

Who Killed Abby and Libby? 'Mindhunter' John Douglas Offers Insight Into Delphi Murders

 

[sunshineray]

If it indeed would be her first time on the bridge, she’d be scared but not willing to admit it. So looking slightly tense is not surprising.

It seems that Abby was of the type who are “ugly ducklings” in childhood and grow into beautiful swans. She was in the transition phase, was coquettish, trying different postures, profiles, semi-profiles, hats, gazes. It shows on many photos, she is aware of her budding beauty, her long legs. Libby seemed to understand it and apparently enjoyed taking flattering photos of her friend. (All MOO.)

On this photo, with face down, hair upswept, she looks very attractive. Maybe she knew her “best profile”, so to say, hence she chose to look down on that photo.

I think she was just scared crossing and watching her steps very careful.

 

[margarita25]

I wish those billboard locations had been mapped out back then :/ Not that I know how to do that, but I think it may have given us clues?

I do recall quite a bit of discussion in the early days about the billboards...posters may have mentioned seeing them. There might not be a map but I do know there is some reference, if at least minimal, on the subject. The articles may mention particular states; iirc it was 6000. Let me see what I can find.


ETA:
6,000 billboards in 46 states plead for information in Delphi girls' murders
PUBLISHED: FEB 22ND, 2017 - 10:06PM (EST)
UPDATED: FEB 26TH, 2017 - 6:31AM (EST)

 

[sunshineray]

Thank you..I think that is an important fact about Carter going to visit KG

He's a kind man, IMO

 

[sunshineray]

The strange thing about this is that they released the new sketch at the same time they came out and said he was local and hiding in plain sight. Those two things must be connected. If they just came out and said they actually thought he might be hiding in plain sight, you could theorize that they had done familial DNA testing and traced it to a local family line. If they had only released the new sketch and said: "actually, we think this is the guy" you could theorize they had gone back over tips and found a reason to give that sketch credibility. But theories that fit both are much harder.

The only thing I can think of at the moment is that maybe someone provided a very credible tip that implicated a group of people that are local to/familiar with the area. This group was much younger than the perp depicted in the original sketch. LE goes back over information and realizes that the second sketch/witness account of the man in the second sketch matches up to the new information perfectly.

For example, if someone overheard 2 younger men discussing the crime in detail that only the perp would know. The men were wearing sports uniforms/university sweatshirts/work uniforms that the informant recognized as being local. Now LE know he is local and based on the group involved they assume he active in the community, they strongly suspect he is the man depicted in the second sketch...they just don't know exactly which one out of the group he is.

I think there were all sorts of people in that area, that day. I think it's obvious something triggered them going back to that early generated sketch. IMO, it's the reason ISP Carter said point blank, we're starting over. Someone fooled them, they know it and he favors the NBG sketch. It's the only thing that makes sense out of it, to me, about all that was said at that April 2019 PC.

 

[margarita25]

Here is a post by @Snoods from another thread (Cheryl’s and Andy’s) which just caught my eye:

“What about how he switched MO’s? He went from raping a woman alone in an apartment using a gun as a weapon, to abducting a couple from their car and brutally murdering them using a knife as a weapon.”

Again, does BG have multiple MOs?

 

[almagata]

ETA that if the sketch is right, his face looks too full and nourished to be a meth head IMO.

All drug addicts start someplace. They don't start out looking like the walking dead.

 

[margarita25]

I’ve learned recently that not all meth heads are thin.

 

[Soulmagent]

I remember watching Bundy being interviewed when it was getting close to his execution and him being asked what he thought was the contributor to his serial killing, what had led him there. It was a chillingly frank and quick answer, and all this is paraphrasing, he said he thought *advertiser censored* twisted his mind. He said he started very young viewing it and it became a lifelong obsession.

I know not every person viewing *advertiser censored* has it turn into to a problem. Not every viewer becomes an attacker of women but I feel in his case it incubated a misogyny his environment generated early and then helped turn that violent.

I think back on that Bundy interview and wonder if BG is also cut from this cloth, this background to prey on those he considers minimal, even when in the form of two sweet and innocent young girls.

I remember that! and also how it made me think about pronography .

 

[Falling Down]

I agree with this. Also, people who commit violent crimes start with lesser crimes- the GSK for instance who went from buglarly, to sexual assault, to killing.




Thank you! I am going to track this down.

I’d love to know why they had such different views.

I agree re: lesser crimes. Often times sexual sadists, rapists, murderers, etc., also had voyeuristic tendencies earlier in life.

JMO

 

[Thelastleg]

I’ve learned recently that not all meth heads are thin.

Dbm

 

[rosesfromangels]

All drug addicts start someplace. They don't start out looking like the walking dead.

True.
This Perp seemed organized and well planned, not erratic or chaotic like a druggie. In my amateur profile he is the complete opposite; calculated, controlled, and operationalized.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Charlot123]

Hooray- I’m finally caught up on this thread.

Yesterday I was listening to the recent crawlspace podcast interview with KG. I found it interesting she believed BG certainly killed before or has killed after- or will certainly kill again.

I don’t believe this to be a foregone conclusion at all. I personally doubt he killed before and I very VERY much doubt he’s killed since or will kill again. I think A and L were targeted specifically and it was a one-time event.

I think dude is on his best best behavior now and wouldn’t dream of trying to get away with murder (literally!) again. He’s likely on borrowed time and the last thing he would do is attempt to get caught with a new murder.

Side note, but related- every time I listen to an interview with KG (or read a tweet like her recent one about the sketches), I’m newly frustrated. God love her- she’s in a position I can only sympathize with and cannot even imagine- but I wonder how much she’s helping the cause when there are so many things she says that I feel are either purely opinion stated as fact, or conflicting info.

Argh. Wish there was just ONE person in this case that I thought made sense when they are interviewed. And this includes LE!



MOO.

At least LE appears sincere. I think he is in a difficult situation, as his position is political, and he probably wants to say much more. Tobe Lazenby seems to be of the same type.

 

[Charlot123]

Thinking about this, if he is a SK, he will still have an internal motivation to kill, even if there is heat from LE. So perhaps, as I’ve mentioned before, perhaps he’s using a different MO, maybe this time not leaving any bodies, or perhaps preying on dissimilar victims, maybe prostitutes...Or perhaps he has moved far away from Delphi.

I imagine having an inner compulsion to kill might be like having an addiction you can’t control. Even though you know it’s risky, you’re going to do it anyway, and it might not be easy to just “stop”.

Also, if he thinks he is smarter than everyone, or thinks “well I got away with it the first time”, this maybe even empowers him.

Maybe he is “laying low”. Or maybe he’s not. IF he is trying to lay low, and IF he is a SK, he must be really itching. Who knows how long he can maintain the “cool-off” period, if he is in fact currently inactive.

if he is a SK and this scene was staged, there should be elements of staging in other killings, too. Different ones, but some.

 

[Charlot123]

IIRC that FBI agent that showed up to help search from the beginning was on stage with the other police on 4/22.
Seems completely reasonable to me that he went to help, he was based at an FBI office in a nearby town.

But in Delphi, he was not for work. Nor was he sent there for the case. He was visiting a family, hence, a private citizen.