Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

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I've wondered about that too. The two options I can think of are he grabbed one of the girls and held a knife or gun to her head to force the other one to comply, or he was somebody they didn't suspect--taking the video makes that option unlikely.
I got past that idea of the girls outrunning him pretty quickly, what with a gun most likely in the equation. It is easy to speculate what they could have done from the safety of our livingrooms, but quite another to be in the moment in such a terrifying situation. I think to myself, wouldn't it have been nice if they had tried to re-cross the bridge or try and push him over it, or made a run for it, but then I would think, being paralyzed in terror and not being able to breath let alone think trumps everything most times.
 
The person is able to adapt to discipline, is perfectionistic, good with the boss, maybe strict with subordinates, but nothing extreme. He probably shows a certain amount of machismo with friends, but on the surface, it looks like leadership qualities.

He constantly needs to prove his masculinity and would never forgive anyone who questions it or makes even good-natured jokes.

I agree with this best!
-.-.-.-

What is with a possible second perp? Do you think, he is quite different? Subordinate to the 1st perp/killer?
 
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I agree with this best!
-.-.-.-

What is with a possible second perp? Do you think, he is quite different? Subordinate to the 1st perp/killer?

This always remains the question. If he existed (some things are easier to explain given the second perp, and some are not), then he must have been subordinate, in some form, or emotionally dependent on the killer.

If they were of a different age, then whatever form this subordination took, it probably had element of folie-a-deux, shared psychotic disorder, when one person has a serious mental illness, and the other one, usually living under same roof, totally shares this psychosis, may even behave in a more psychotic way during the murders, but himself is not mentally ill. It could be two sisters, a parent and a child, or a couple. And the treatment for the “healthy” one is to separate them.

But in a loose form, shared psychotic disorder could be a cult, or any group with odd interests, or even some paranoid internet communities. Not the religion or the political movement that grows after the founder is gone, but lots of groups that fall apart when they are separated from the originator of the ideas.

But here, assuming they are of a different age, if they are a family, it is folie-a-deux. If they are not, and not living under the same roof, it is probably some cultish-like element. I don’t know if there is any intimate component between the two, but in fact, it is not necessary for shared psychosis. What is necessary is one being ill, and the other, having some psychological weakness, and them spending a lot of time together. Maybe drug experimentation can facilitate transfer of psychosis? Never read about it, but possible.

What if both are of the same age, and young? Then we come to boy A and boy B in Ana Kriegel’s case. Different, but one weaker than the other.
 
https://www.carrollcountycomet.com/articles/lots-of-tips-no-arrest-in-2017-double-homicide/
Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet



April 29, 2020

By Debbie Lowe

Staff writer

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby told the Comet Monday roughly 40,000 tips have been received in the investigation into the homicides of Abigail Williams and Liberty German on Feb. 13, 2017. Leazenby reported that roughly 9,000 tips were received in 2019 and approxim ately 3 , 0 0 0 have been received this year. Libby took a video on her […]
These are the screen shots of the article posted on the right when you click the link (since you need an online subscription to read the Carroll County Comet.)
upload_2020-4-30_10-57-43.png
upload_2020-4-30_10-58-5.png
 
These are the screen shots of the article posted on the right when you click the link (since you need an online subscription to read the Carroll County Comet.)
View attachment 245072
View attachment 245073
Wow! So here we go with the 'more than one person' theories again. I personally believe there is only one person involved, but a few folks on here aren't convinced on that point. The thing about more than person it that it is less likely to keep secret. But then again, as was quoted by Ben Franklin: "Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead."
 
I agree with the notion that this person is perfectly comfortable in the woods, which brings up all manner of possibilities in his background.

When I first heard about this case and started sleuthing it, my biggest goal early on was a strong desire to get a "feel" for where it happened, using Google satellite, Street View, Earth, and other resources. I looked at railroad and bridge enthusiast sites. There were two or three YouTube videos where people had visited in 2016. Etc.

I had to get a firm grasp of the orientation of the bridge (N, S, E, W), how the creek and bridge relate, the "lay of the land", etc. I learned how to read maps by age 7 or 8, old hard bound atlases and paper maps. It was just something that kind of interested me at a young age, although it's a pretty dry subject, mostly. Later in life this came in handy in the scouts, while hunting, while hiking, and in the military.

I picture BG being able to map things out in his mind, same as myself and other people talented at it. For some people it comes in handy in life, may even be applicable in an occupation, it definitely comes in handy in the military (I have stories about that), etc. Other things that come in handy in certain situations, outdoors:

1. Knowing distances, and being able to judge distances.

2. Keeping track of time, and even taking notes on how much time it takes to travel from point-to-point.

3. Judging terrain, how to traverse it, how much time it might take to travel across terrain.

4, Putting all of that together. In BG's case I picture "dry runs" before the murders, for just his own use and to put his own mind at ease, so to speak.

What am I looking for when I'm in an unfamiliar place in the middle of the woods? How to get out of there. If you're BG you want that peace of mind of knowing escape routes from the CS on RL's property, this is critical. Again, there's a possibility here he did dry runs in the past. Otherwise, I do not know how on Earth he would have known to go west through the woods, it's badly overgrown even in February. Which then brings up when he'd been there previously, times of the year. He very well could have done one dry run, so to speak, but I have my reservations about that.

I will expound on this some in a post further down, shortly.

He could have parked in the back of the cemetery, and I was convinced that was the case until last year's PC. But that doesn't jive with someone bent on concealment and ease of moving in and out of an area, and nobody remembering enough about him or a vehicle for identification to lead to an identification of BG. Reason why I say this is had he parked in the cemetery, and someone else parked there or even really close to his vehicle, there would have been a higher likelihood of identification of the vehicle and maybe even another description of BG from a witness, maybe other possibilities here, too.

That said, what made him so confident he could pull this off at the SE end of the bridge w/o someone (like LIbby or a different person) calling 911 or a relative or ? To me this shows total confidence, the SE end of the bridge was the trap, make it look all nonchalant, he's just crossing the bridge. Then go full-monster, while at the same time trying to keep his composure. Total surprise.

Some of what I write about this case comes from my own "map mind", I'm obsessed with how this guy got away with it, and the amount of effort it took to pull it off. He had to have had this all mapped out in his head, times memorized, etc.

The map in this case is important.

JMO
A lot of this mirrors my experiences. Except maybe judging distances. Hunting in the woods and swamps of LA, the ability to judge a distance over 50-100 yards wasn't really needed, especially when hunting with a shotgun or bow. So I never was really great at that aspect. I didn't learn anything about map reading till boy scouts, but then I picked it up quickly. It came in handy when playing that forerunner to paintball, Capture the Flag, in the woods at night. I wonder how much of this is in military training now with handheld GPS devices in use. Even the Navy did away with celestial navigation training at the Naval Academy around 2000. It's only been in the last 3-4 years that they brought it back.
 
Wow! So here we go with the 'more than one person' theories again. I personally believe there is only one person involved, but a few folks on here aren't convinced on that point. The thing about more than person it that it is less likely to keep secret. But then again, as was quoted by Ben Franklin: "Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead."
Quoted bbm
I can't even go there.....its like Groundhog Day!
JMO
 
Do you or anyone local
know if this story was covered on the local news last night? If so can you post the clip?
I am not local. Good question! I am not sure if it was covered on local news.

I do find it very interesting that one of the only ways I can seem to access this article is by logging into a 'subscription only' news site though.

(Fortunately for those who wish to read it, someone who subscribes to the Carroll County Comet was kind enough to post the screen shots online.)

JMO
 
This always remains the question. If he existed (some things are easier to explain given the second perp, and some are not), then he must have been subordinate, in some form, or emotionally dependent on the killer.

If they were of a different age, then whatever form this subordination took, it probably had element of folie-a-deux, shared psychotic disorder, when one person has a serious mental illness, and the other one, usually living under same roof, totally shares this psychosis, may even behave in a more psychotic way during the murders, but himself is not mentally ill. It could be two sisters, a parent and a child, or a couple. And the treatment for the “healthy” one is to separate them.

But in a loose form, shared psychotic disorder could be a cult, or any group with odd interests, or even some paranoid internet communities. Not the religion or the political movement that grows after the founder is gone, but lots of groups that fall apart when they are separated from the originator of the ideas.

But here, assuming they are of a different age, if they are a family, it is folie-a-deux. If they are not, and not living under the same roof, it is probably some cultish-like element. I don’t know if there is any intimate component between the two, but in fact, it is not necessary for shared psychosis. What is necessary is one being ill, and the other, having some psychological weakness, and them spending a lot of time together. Maybe drug experimentation can facilitate transfer of psychosis? Never read about it, but possible.

What if both are of the same age, and young? Then we come to boy A and boy B in Ana Kriegel’s case. Different, but one weaker than the other.
Suggestion: Man A with mental illnesses (Plural!) and man B, lifelong used to handle man A's illnesses. Age difference only a few years, both not "boys" any more. MOO and speculation.
 
This always remains the question. If he existed (some things are easier to explain given the second perp, and some are not), then he must have been subordinate, in some form, or emotionally dependent on the killer.

If they were of a different age, then whatever form this subordination took, it probably had element of folie-a-deux, shared psychotic disorder, when one person has a serious mental illness, and the other one, usually living under same roof, totally shares this psychosis, may even behave in a more psychotic way during the murders, but himself is not mentally ill. It could be two sisters, a parent and a child, or a couple. And the treatment for the “healthy” one is to separate them.

But in a loose form, shared psychotic disorder could be a cult, or any group with odd interests, or even some paranoid internet communities. Not the religion or the political movement that grows after the founder is gone, but lots of groups that fall apart when they are separated from the originator of the ideas.

But here, assuming they are of a different age, if they are a family, it is folie-a-deux. If they are not, and not living under the same roof, it is probably some cultish-like element. I don’t know if there is any intimate component between the two, but in fact, it is not necessary for shared psychosis. What is necessary is one being ill, and the other, having some psychological weakness, and them spending a lot of time together. Maybe drug experimentation can facilitate transfer of psychosis? Never read about it, but possible.

What if both are of the same age, and young? Then we come to boy A and boy B in Ana Kriegel’s case. Different, but one weaker than the other.
I don’t think they are a cult if there are two. I think one needed the other to help accomplish the murders. The motive could be personal on the part of one of them. If it is one person involved it is probably not his first time and he feels smarter than LE because he has not been charged in any previous cases.
 
I got past that idea of the girls outrunning him pretty quickly, what with a gun most likely in the equation. It is easy to speculate what they could have done from the safety of our livingrooms, but quite another to be in the moment in such a terrifying situation. I think to myself, wouldn't it have been nice if they had tried to re-cross the bridge or try and push him over it, or made a run for it, but then I would think, being paralyzed in terror and not being able to breath let alone think trumps everything most times.
They could have been trying to protect each other as well. If he had a weapon, which I’m absolutely sure he did, they may have complied in order to keep him from harming their friend.
 
I've also spent a lot of time in the wood as the previous poster.. and I agree, this guy knew the land very well and was "street smart" from a quick mental calculating standpoint. The location was perfect for such a crime. He had been in that area for an extended time period.. probably many years ago when nobody would have raised an eyebrow to see him there.

Here's my wild prediction. He grew up there as a kid or teenager visiting his grandmother where he explored all those woods. That would have been about 1990-2000 that he would have explored there then. But then again, I'm just guessing.
 
I've also spent a lot of time in the wood as the previous poster.. and I agree, this guy knew the land very well and was "street smart" from a quick mental calculating standpoint. The location was perfect for such a crime. He had been in that area for an extended time period.. probably many years ago when nobody would have raised an eyebrow to see him there.

Here's my wild prediction. He grew up there as a kid or teenager visiting his grandmother where he explored all those woods. That would have been about 1990-2000 that he would have explored there then. But then again, I'm just guessing.
I don't believe it is all that wild. Except that I have him as younger, maybe sometime in the 2000-2010 time frame. A 7th, 8th or 9th grader then probably would not be readily recognized now.
 
I agree with Justice.
As a young boy BG may have explored the High Bridge area.
As a young girl I spent more time outside in the woods in western Michigan, always exploring. On weekends we would travel North to grandma's....again I explored the woodsy areas "up North."
Now, as an old grandma, I would still know my old "haunts," without missing a beat.
(Just couldn't get here n there as quickly.)
BG knew the area from some activity in his past. Maybe panning for gold....who knows?
LE knows, I believe.
MOO
 
I've also spent a lot of time in the wood as the previous poster.. and I agree, this guy knew the land very well and was "street smart" from a quick mental calculating standpoint. The location was perfect for such a crime. He had been in that area for an extended time period.. probably many years ago when nobody would have raised an eyebrow to see him there.

Here's my wild prediction. He grew up there as a kid or teenager visiting his grandmother where he explored all those woods. That would have been about 1990-2000 that he would have explored there then. But then again, I'm just guessing.

Strong possibility, in my mind. That's one of the "what ifs?" for me.

I picture a lot of young people hanging out there, brought there by other young people or adults, or both. It jives with my theory that BG has been there before, perhaps many times.

I just think BG has had this fantasy for a long time, and at some point before the murders decided to put the wheels in motion to carry it out. The weather, time of year, and other factors would have been motivators to do it, nearly impossible to do in the middle of Summer IMO.

I can't think of many other explanations, a random perp being there that day just doesn't jive at all with what happens in really weird cases like this one. It just doesn't. A random perp who has never been to a bridge way off in the woods, that a lot of locals would not have known how to get to before the murders.

JMO
 
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