Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[rosesfromangels]

I'm honestly wondering why he had to take them that far away from a already secluded place to do what he did ? Unless the girls did run and the down the hill us actually on the side of the creek they were found

Pure speculation, but it was likely where he had scoped beforehand. Likely it provided visual and acoustic cover (and he knew that), and perhaps there were aspects of the landscape that supported his murderous plan. (E.g. trees to tie the girls to - as pure speculation and an example). In addition, it had to provide a quick getaway path. And, for all we know, the location might have had some special significance/history to him.****
***Location of first sexual encounter, etc.

I think we should consider how the location itself might be a great lead, if we can tie that back to some significant (prior) event for someone....just a thought.

All amateur opinion and speculation

 

[carbuff]

Thanks, good grief I was just trying to respond to someone else's query. Fair 'nuf! Haven't been here in awhile, and I've already gotten in trouble lol.

I didn't mean to say you were in trouble! Just wanted to steer everybody off before we veered too far. I got in big trouble the last time it came up...

 

[minazoe]

I feel there is a something wrong with the description of the crime and what the evidence shows.

how did the murder happen almost immediately after "down the hill"?

seems like they ran all over the damm place, crossed the river etc...just doesn't ring right does it?

I know sometimes cops will blatantly lie about what they know to piss off the killer.

like the sketches, this instantaneous murder of two girls doesn't sound right when you look
where all they were found and knowing what little we know. And if it was this bing bang boom kind of killing then how did he get them where they were found?

The chilling thing is we see the killer approaching his prey. we see someone who is light on his feet even though he looks clumsy, he is moving at a clip. his head down , hands in pockets, this is the position of someone who mean business but means to surprise, he obscures his intentions with his posture that looks lumbering while his feet are moving with no reservation. How do you move so confidently on that bridge?

well, if you've been on it many times even every day or weekend for years on end even ..or maybe you're a bridge guy, a railroad guy..walking stuff like this day in day out.

that bridge is a rickety old mess with holes and broken trestles.

mOO

 

[Falcon500]

I brought this up about a year ago.

How do we know that the guy in the blue jacket that some call Bridge Guy is the killer? What if he is some guy who happened to be on the trail, walked by the girls, and a minute later the real killer came from somewhere and the rest is history?

 

[Serdavc]

I think we should consider how the location itself might be a great lead, if we can tie that back to some significant (prior) event for someone....just a thought

This! I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. We can’t underestimate the importance of Valentine’s Day occurring right after the murders. I think BG was triggered by some sort of failed romantic relationship and by the MHB location. If I could only find a link. MOO

 

[minazoe]

it wouldn't be the first time, Bundy was said to have been filled with rage at the rich girl that dumped him and that this was why he murdered co-ed's with similar hair, etc.

this could be a trigger, but we all know Bundy started murdering earlier than that..much earlier...might have even murdered a neighbor lady when he was 11...( I would check that but I think so).

mOO

 

[Charlot123]

@Juggernautseeker , but that is the issue. That picture you posted is cut out and blown up. Even if it was in the background, I’d like to see the whole background.

I'm pretty sure Kelsie would have noticed if Abby's sweatshirt was not the one that she was wearing when she left the car. It was mentioned that this was Abby's first time crossing the bridge. Although not sure how this could be proved. Jmo

Kelsi said (I think in one of early interviews with Gray Hughes) that the girls were dressed lightly on the car (no jackets) and that she gave them sweatshirts that were in her car - I understand, hers or Libby’s. Libby clothes, when they were searching for the girls, included described a tie-dyed T shirt. I never heard on a sweatshirt. Abby is seen wearing what I would call a zippered jacked on that 2:07 bridge photo. But ...we all have seen many photos of Libby with Abby, and with Kelsi, and interviews of Kelsie and BP, to admit the obvious, that only Abby had a small, lithe, frame. And on the photo from bridge, she wears something that is unmistakably hers, I see it by the shoulder seams on the sweatshirt.

But I am not stating the Kelsie is not telling the truth. She might have given Abby another jacket, from her car, on February 13, seeing that Abby was dressed lightly. That could indicate only one thing, that the photo of Abby on the bridge is not from that day, and that might potentially move the time of the crime outside of the narrow boundaries. There is nothing else but that photo tying girls to MHB that day. To the trails, probably. But not the bridge.
Unless Kelsi was mistaken... I see no other options.

 

[Andreee]

I didn't mean to say you were in trouble! Just wanted to steer everybody off before we veered too far. I got in big trouble the last time it came up...

Just basically joking, don't worry 'bout it! I'm glad they have rules here actually!

 

[insearchoflight]

I brought this up about a year ago.

How do we know that the guy in the blue jacket that some call Bridge Guy is the killer? What if he is some guy who happened to be on the trail, walked by the girls, and a minute later the real killer came from somewhere and the rest is history?

LE believes this guy is the killer. They must have good reason. My theory is that the video was taken in selfie mode so BG wouldn’t be aware he was being filmed. He approaches and gives the girls a ruse and/or brandishes a weapon to get them to comply down the hill. The phone drops and BG doesn’t care to retrieve it because he didn’t know he was being filmed. All this is captured on the video therefore they know BG is the lone killer. All moo

 

[Charlot123]

That BG photo is like a Rorschach ink blot; I see so many different things, depending on when I look at it.
This time, as I look at the BG photo, I see the knee area and just below on his jeans looking slightly muddy, as if he had been kneeling. Anyone else see that? Could be so wrong, because with the pixelation, our brains tend to fill in the blanks. Many blanks in this case.

At this time, I can't relate to the second sketch and what we see in this blurry BG photo. I see much more of the first sketch, although it's likely he is a blend of both? Who knows. Last I recollect, the first sketch has been dismissed, or just still no clarity on that point?

I've been studying everything I can re: sexual homicide, although we don't absolutely know there was a sexual attack here - but I think it's a fair assumption. Sexual homicide represents a very small percentage of homicides overall, just slightly over 1% per this scholarly research: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23571631_Sexual_Homicide_A_Synthesis_of_the_Literature
(You have to scroll approx. 1/2 down page to get to actual study).

So if there was sexual assault involved in this murder, we know this Perp is a rare breed.
Motivators: Urge to sexually assault, or grievance towards women, or killing to avoid detection post rape

Types of Perps:
1. Power-assertive rape murder: Generally in 20's, with a "primative" emotional state, macho image, anti-social, high school dropout, property crimes. Motive is aggression and control. Victims are strangers, surprise attack. Crime scene reflects organized attack
2. Power-reassurance attack: living out rape fantasy. Socially isolated with limited history of normal sexual activity. Underachiever, likely criminal history which may include fetish, trespassing, larceny.
power-reassurance. Tends to pick victims 10-15 years older or younger than him.
3. Anger-excitation rape-murder: Average married guy on outside, private sadist. Collects *advertiser censored* with bondage and sadism. Selects strangers with con or ruse; well planned. Aim to inflict pain and tortue. Takes trophies

Editing to add that based on the few facts I do know about this case, profile #3 seems the most likely to me ATM.

The full article is a very worthy read as it relates to this case. Again, here is the full link:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23571631_Sexual_Homicide_A_Synthesis_of_the_Literature

Amateur opinion and speculation

I don’t know if it was a sexual crime, but perhaps somehow related to his prior sexual activity, or private internet browsing, or something sexualized.

And by your description, I, too, feel that he belongs to type 3.

I used the word “vindictive” before. It popped in my head in connection with a very different case, but I feel it describes the perp.

Was it meant to be a sexual crime? I feel that the person knew something about his victims. He did not attack at random.

Have you ever considered a rather complicated scenario? Libby, it seems, was larger than life in her activities. Was interested in criminology, good with computers. What if this guy was on private browser, searching for something sexual, and they accidentally met online? And she figured out his name? And he is not the person to leave witnesses.

Now, him being type 3 made the murders heinous.

As to collections, I think, he sublimates. I think it looks not like sadistic *advertiser censored*, although these things one can easily find online today, so, some *advertiser censored*, too. I think he has a collection of guns, arbalets, stakes and maybe WWII memorabilia.

 

[Charlot123]

If the snapchat photo was from a previous trip to MHB, the snapchat photo would have said "from camera roll" in the top left corner of the photo when it was posted to snapchat that day. Next time I'm on snapchat I'll see if I can screenshot an example for you. Although, you may be right that the time could be off, probably within an hour, because snapchat counts the time the picture is posted by saying "posted 1 hour ago" or "posted 3 hours ago" etc. Its not a precise count.

Here is my question. I never used Snapchat, but I can imagine that like with most apps, you can take a photo with Snapchat itself, and either keep in the app or post, or take a photo with the phone camera and then download into Snapchat, right?

Maybe I should download S.C. app to see how it works. See what I can do with regular photos as opposed to S.C.-taken photos.

 

[rosesfromangels]

This! I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. We can’t underestimate the importance of Valentine’s Day occurring right after the murders. I think BG was triggered by some sort of failed romantic relationship and by the MHB location. If I could only find a link. MOO

I agree this certainly should be considered. I personally knew two beautiful and talented women who were (in separate incidences), murdered on Valentines Day. V-Day triggers strong emotions, and not all are good.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Serdavc]

I agree this certainly should be considered. I personally knew two beautiful and talented women who were (in separate incidences), murdered on Valentines Day. V-Day triggers strong emotions, and not all are good.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I’m so sorry for your losses. My heart goes out to all women who are victims of these evil crimes. I’m trying hard, like all of you amazing WSers, to find Justice for Libby and Abby. Let today be the day!

 

[BNA]

I feel there is a something wrong with the description of the crime and what the evidence shows.

how did the murder happen almost immediately after "down the hill"?

seems like they ran all over the damm place, crossed the river etc...just doesn't ring right does it?

I know sometimes cops will blatantly lie about what they know to piss off the killer.

like the sketches, this instantaneous murder of two girls doesn't sound right when you look
where all they were found and knowing what little we know. And if it was this bing bang boom kind of killing then how did he get them where they were found?

The chilling thing is we see the killer approaching his prey. we see someone who is light on his feet even though he looks clumsy, he is moving at a clip. his head down , hands in pockets, this is the position of someone who mean business but means to surprise, he obscures his intentions with his posture that looks lumbering while his feet are moving with no reservation. How do you move so confidently on that bridge?

well, if you've been on it many times even every day or weekend for years on end even ..or maybe you're a bridge guy, a railroad guy..walking stuff like this day in day out.

that bridge is a rickety old mess with holes and broken trestles.

mOO

I think what was said was that the CRIME began almost immediately...not necessarily the murder. IOW, the kidnapping of the girls, perhaps, is what began almost immediately.

 

[BNA]

@Juggernautseeker , but that is the issue. That picture you posted is cut out and blown up. Even if it was in the background, I’d like to see the whole background.


Kelsi said (I think in one of early interviews with Gray Hughes) that the girls were dressed lightly on the car (no jackets) and that she gave them sweatshirts that were in her car - I understand, hers or Libby’s. Libby clothes, when they were searching for the girls, included described a tie-dyed T shirt. I never heard on a sweatshirt. Abby is seen wearing what I would call a zippered jacked on that 2:07 bridge photo. But ...we all have seen many photos of Libby with Abby, and with Kelsi, and interviews of Kelsie and BP, to admit the obvious, that only Abby had a small, lithe, frame. And on the photo from bridge, she wears something that is unmistakably hers, I see it by the shoulder seams on the sweatshirt.

But I am not stating the Kelsie is not telling the truth. She might have given Abby another jacket, from her car, on February 13, seeing that Abby was dressed lightly. That could indicate only one thing, that the photo of Abby on the bridge is not from that day, and that might potentially move the time of the crime outside of the narrow boundaries. There is nothing else but that photo tying girls to MHB that day. To the trails, probably. But not the bridge.
Unless Kelsi was mistaken... I see no other options.

For me, that has always prompted the question as to why they were not adequately dressed before they even left the house. I suppose that they may have known that there were 2 sweatshirts available in the car.

This was February. I don't care how nice a February day it was. Even in February, when I walk on the nicer days, I am pretty heavily layered. It just seems weird to me.

It has always implied to me that there was some urgency to get out there....that something was up with that.

 

[turanna25]

Here is my question. I never used Snapchat, but I can imagine that like with most apps, you can take a photo with Snapchat itself, and either keep in the app or post, or take a photo with the phone camera and then download into Snapchat, right?

Maybe I should download S.C. app to see how it works. See what I can do with regular photos as opposed to S.C.-taken photos.

Essentially... yes. You can take a picture or video on the app and use filters to change the color or add smileys or other cute little images to the pics. You can also add text on top of a picture. If the photo was taken in the app in real time there won't be anything up on the top of the photo. If the photo was taken in the past it will say as such "from camera roll" or "from memories". "from memories" means from past things you posted on SC and it is saved on the SC "camera roll" (only you can see). "From camera roll" means the phones camera roll.

I've attached photos of what this looks like in the SC app. I apologize for the crappiness of the photos- I had to try and catch the picture within the allotted time the photo lasts on the screen while using my other hand to take the pic. Also, had to blur out and crop them so I didn't show friends names or what they were actually SCing.

Basically, if the girls took the photo in SC and just posted it in real time it would have nothing in the top left corner (like the example attached from Anthony). If it came from their camera roll and was taken earlier it would have looked like the example attached from Brielle that says "camera roll".

 

[Ozoner]

I seriously hate to suggest this occupation, but has anyone considered a minister, a priest, a pastor? Someone church or house of religion related.

Clergy made Business Insider's list of "The 10 professions with the most psychopaths":
"In a blog post for Psychology Today, FBI veteran Joe Navarro explains some of the reasons psychopathic people may go for a career in the Clergy. Among them are the fact religious organisations may provide a means for people to exploit others, while also giving legitimacy to their actions. Also, it is easy to make alliances, which can give manipulative people the upper hand in gaining access to sensitive information."

 

[Kittybunny]

That BG photo is like a Rorschach ink blot; I see so many different things, depending on when I look at it.
This time, as I look at the BG photo, I see the knee area and just below on his jeans looking slightly muddy, as if he had been kneeling. Anyone else see that? Could be so wrong, because with the pixelation, our brains tend to fill in the blanks. Many blanks in this case.

At this time, I can't relate to the second sketch and what we see in this blurry BG photo. I see much more of the first sketch, although it's likely he is a blend of both? Who knows. Last I recollect, the first sketch has been dismissed, or just still no clarity on that point?

I've been studying everything I can re: sexual homicide, although we don't absolutely know there was a sexual attack here - but I think it's a fair assumption. Sexual homicide represents a very small percentage of homicides overall, just slightly over 1% per this scholarly research: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23571631_Sexual_Homicide_A_Synthesis_of_the_Literature
(You have to scroll approx. 1/2 down page to get to actual study).

So if there was sexual assault involved in this murder, we know this Perp is a rare breed.
Motivators: Urge to sexually assault, or grievance towards women, or killing to avoid detection post rape

Types of Perps:
1. Power-assertive rape murder: Generally in 20's, with a "primative" emotional state, macho image, anti-social, high school dropout, property crimes. Motive is aggression and control. Victims are strangers, surprise attack. Crime scene reflects organized attack
2. Power-reassurance attack: living out rape fantasy. Socially isolated with limited history of normal sexual activity. Underachiever, likely criminal history which may include fetish, trespassing, larceny.
power-reassurance. Tends to pick victims 10-15 years older or younger than him.
3. Anger-excitation rape-murder: Average married guy on outside, private sadist. Collects *advertiser censored* with bondage and sadism. Selects strangers with con or ruse; well planned. Aim to inflict pain and tortue. Takes trophies

Editing to add that based on the few facts I do know about this case, profile #3 seems the most likely to me ATM.

The full article is a very worthy read as it relates to this case. Again, here is the full link:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23571631_Sexual_Homicide_A_Synthesis_of_the_Literature

Amateur opinion and speculation

Great information! Thank you, I agree with you on number three type being the most likely culprit.

 

[crhedBngr]

How exactly do you think the killer will be caught? It’s been three years. Here’s some scenarios I’ve thought of, from most likely in my opinion to least likely.

<RSABBMFF>

On further review I think I would put #3 as my most likely scenario.
Just my thoughts.
How do y’all think it will come down?

RBBM

I suspect Everyone has read about some meat-processing plants closing, due to COVID-19.

Early on (about 1,000,000 posts ago, or so it seems), some speculated the killer worked at the Delphi meat-processing plant.

If he has been steadily employed in meat-processing, these plant closings might throw his life into disarray, and he might attempt to kill again. If so, I really hope he gets caught this time.

What I hope does not happen is he dies from COVID-19, and this case remains unsolved.

Just tossing ideas out there.

MVHO.

Coronavirus shortages: Shoppers struggle to find chicken, beef, eggs

 

[mom2chloe]

I brought this up about a year ago.

How do we know that the guy in the blue jacket that some call Bridge Guy is the killer? What if he is some guy who happened to be on the trail, walked by the girls, and a minute later the real killer came from somewhere and the rest is history?

I cannot like or understand this enough because I seriously have to disregard it. Could have easily been a parent/grandparent on the trail and could have zero to do with the killer whether you Believe it’s BG or not. MOO