Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[Will_Graham]

This is also what those 3 former FBI specialists (I think it was one profiler and two special agents?) said on that podcast about the Delphi murders, that the killer had previously been to and prepared a "lair" to bring his victim(s).

It does make some sense but then I keep thinking why would crossing the creek be part of the killer's plan? Why not wait for that girls to cross back over the bridge/creek since he knew they had to (or did he?) as the trail ended on the cross-over side and his "lair" was there?

If we think Libby lost her shoe in a run away towards the creek then crossing it and killing them there was probably an improvisation and not killer's first choice? Was the trail's end something he knew well, no other paths out except through private property or did he choose to approach them on that side because is would have less hiker traffic for having no official egress?

I just don't know with any confidence how the spot/crime scene came to be where it was...without more crime scene descriptive information that shows preparation. AJMO

I dont recall where the shoe was found exactly, but is there a SK-perp scenario where the shoe is among trophies he is taking and in a fevered rush drops it?

 

[Charlot123]

Perhaps this goes beyond a local yokel who knows the holler, to perhaps someone who did a more sophisticated geospatial study.
They seemingly knew the acoustics as well.

Perhaps I am giving this miscreant too much credit for strategic planning. After all, he apparently didn’t leave them in the creek where DNA could be diminished, and the little hero Libby’s phone was found at the scene.

Yet, if I expand this line of thinking, I’m wondering what occupations might have the capabilities to plan in this manner...

Amateur opinion and speculation

Italicized by me.

I don’t know what line of business he is in, but it is as if he demonstrates the ability to abduct from a public space in broad daylight, to control, to shepherd in a certain direction, to kill in different ways (it is obvious from these three years that it was different), to leave no DNA/destroy the DNA, to vanish without a trace. The fact that there is a video or an audio merely proves that no one can plan a 100%.

It feels as if he were passing an exam. Checking all boxes. A weird feeling I can not shed.

 

[Charlot123]

Deleted double post

 

[LonelyPoet]

I always check the threads about little Abby and Libby and hold my breath --- hoping it will be good news. I'm always disappointed by no arrest. I can't even begin to fathom how it feels as a parent/sibling to know that someone brutally murdered a person you love and they're still out there doing God only knows what.

Whoever did it was so familiar with the area that he knew exactly where to take them and which route to use. That makes me think he did set up a 'lair' to bring his victims into. And that makes me fear that these little girls weren't his first (or last) victims. The hopeful part of me wants to believe that no one on earth could stomach to kill two innocent kids on their first outing as a murderer. Surely only someone who has done that before could bear to do it to two people at once time. But there are monsters out there so I'm probably hopeful for no reason.

I want justice for these girls. Badly. I want their parents to finally know what happened and who did it and why.

 

[they'll get you]

I always check the threads about little Abby and Libby and hold my breath --- hoping it will be good news. I'm always disappointed by no arrest. I can't even begin to fathom how it feels as a parent/sibling to know that someone brutally murdered a person you love and they're still out there doing God only knows what.

Whoever did it was so familiar with the area that he knew exactly where to take them and which route to use. That makes me think he did set up a 'lair' to bring his victims into. And that makes me fear that these little girls weren't his first (or last) victims. The hopeful part of me wants to believe that no one on earth could stomach to kill two innocent kids on their first outing as a murderer. Surely only someone who has done that before could bear to do it to two people at once time. But there are monsters out there so I'm probably hopeful for no reason.

I want justice for these girls. Badly. I want their parents to finally know what happened and who did it and why.

Same here from Australia.
I can't believe BG hasn't been caught considering his vision and voice was captured by a heroine.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Italicized by me.

I don’t know what line of business he is in, but it is as if he demonstrates the ability to abduct from a public space in broad daylight, to control, to shepherd in a certain direction, to kill in different ways (it is obvious from these three years that it was different), to leave no DNA/destroy the DNA, to vanish without a trace. The fact that there is a video or an audio merely proves that no one can plan a 100%.

It feels as if he were passing an exam. Checking all boxes. A weird feeling I can not shed.

What will BG do now in times, where Corona rages? Will he get bored, because his job/business isn't longer as it has been before? Will he search for other victims to punish them for his lost fun/excitement/success/sales/money/respect/power, which he had without Corona? Is he by chance a "delivery service driver" and has more workload on him than ever because of Corona, but just as much opportunity to search for new victims at the doors, he frequents all day (at a distance of course)? Will the victims be missing/discovered, if times are strange because of Corona and people are advised to heed "social distancing" with less contact to family members/acquaintances?

 

[Charlot123]

What will BG do now in times, where Corona rages? Will he get bored, because his job/business isn't longer as it has been before? Will he search for other victims to punish them for his lost fun/excitement/success/sales/money/respect/power, which he had without Corona? Is he by chance a "delivery service driver" and has more workload on him than ever because of Corona, but just as much opportunity to search for new victims at the doors, he frequents all day (at a distance of course)? Will the victims be missing/discovered, if times are strange because of Corona and people are advised to heed "social distancing" with less contact to family members/acquaintances?

What about wearing mask when out? Or will he be the only one around who doesn’t?

ETA: it is an interesting time as the police is also afraid of the virus.

 

[IceIce9]

There has been quite a bit of discussion about the possibility BG worked at a mear packing plant, or as a truck driver for meat packing plants.

Many of the meat packing plants are closing due to COVID-19, including the Tyson plant in nearby Logansport. That plant had over 200 employees test positive for COVID.

Last I saw the Delphi Indiana Meat Packers plant was still open.

 

[SAMS]

What will BG do now in times, where Corona rages? Will he get bored, because his job/business isn't longer as it has been before? Will he search for other victims to punish them for his lost fun/excitement/success/sales/money/respect/power, which he had without Corona? Is he by chance a "delivery service driver" and has more workload on him than ever because of Corona, but just as much opportunity to search for new victims at the doors, he frequents all day (at a distance of course)? Will the victims be missing/discovered, if times are strange because of Corona and people are advised to heed "social distancing" with less contact to family members/acquaintances?

I wonder what all of these sadistic perps are doing with their stay-at-home time. Makes me cringe and also glad that their prey number is low-for now. MOO

 

[minazoe]

I guarantee you, he is on the dark web. I just worry about his being out in the country in Indiana or surrounding area, and a lot of kids still out and about. out of school, not always in groups, with things being shut down and deserted.
scary.

mOO

 

[sunshineray]

I dont recall where the shoe was found exactly, but is there a SK-perp scenario where the shoe is among trophies he is taking and in a fevered rush drops it?

I got the impression from how KG described it that it was found on the where the trail ends side. But you could be right, that killer was taking it and dropped it. DG was out there looking and probably calling for the girls. Killer could have been startled.

 

[sunshineray]

What will BG do now in times, where Corona rages? Will he get bored, because his job/business isn't longer as it has been before? Will he search for other victims to punish them for his lost fun/excitement/success/sales/money/respect/power, which he had without Corona? Is he by chance a "delivery service driver" and has more workload on him than ever because of Corona, but just as much opportunity to search for new victims at the doors, he frequents all day (at a distance of course)? Will the victims be missing/discovered, if times are strange because of Corona and people are advised to heed "social distancing" with less contact to family members/acquaintances?

I think if he didn't hunker down like the rest of his community he would stand out and he wants to blend into everyday life. That said, if he has a job considered essential he'd be out and about and being that the population out and about has been a minority , he probably wouldn't want to commit a crime where the odds are less in his favor...unless he's just a total moronic sociopath. JMO

 

[Kudzuu]

No, a hunter wouldn't use a dog for deer. I have heard of hunters down south using dogs to "tree" raccoons, but I think that died out around the time FDR was elected. There might be one hillbilly holler lost to time somewhere in the Ozarks where it still goes on.

Well, I'm from hillbilly holler because people where I'm from use dogs to tree coons and ride mules to find them. T hey use mules because a mule, unlike a horse doesn't need a running start to jump a fenc e.

 

[somequestions]

This case might not be solved only because maybe no one saw or remembers seeing the correct man.

Let's say hypothetically you went to a gas station/convenience store today. If I asked you to write down a list of how many people were in the store, how many cars were in the parking lot, license plate numbers of those cars, and a description of the people you saw either pumping gas or buying items in the convenience store, could you do it?

I just got done going to a gas station a few hours ago before I thought up this post. And the only thing I can remember is that there were two cashiers, mainly because I have seen them before. I could describe the cashiers. That is all I can remember.

In my opinion, maybe the case is not solved because the sketches are wrong, the eyewitnesses are wrong, and the statements that the eyewitnesses gave are not about the same person or even the right person. This killer may have walked in there and walked out of there and no one may have seen him or remembered seeing him.

This is why I think what Liberty German did is so important.

 

[JnRyan]

This case might not be solved only because maybe no one saw or remembers seeing the correct man.

Let's say hypothetically you went to a gas station/convenience store today. If I asked you to write down a list of how many people were in the store, how many cars were in the parking lot, license plate numbers of those cars, and a description of the people you saw either pumping gas or buying items in the convenience store, could you do it?

I just got done going to a gas station a few hours ago before I thought up this post. And the only thing I can remember is that there were two cashiers, mainly because I have seen them before. I could describe the cashiers. That is all I can remember.

In my opinion, maybe the case is not solved because the sketches are wrong, the eyewitnesses are wrong, and the statements that the eyewitnesses gave are not about the same person or even the right person. This killer may have walked in there and walked out of there and no one may have seen him or remembered seeing him.

This is why I think what Liberty German did is so important.

Well said!

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Just putting this here in case some of the newer posters haven't seen it before. It's beautiful and well-worth watching.

Abby & Libby One Year Video

Keep hoping for justice.

 

[carbuff]

This case might not be solved only because maybe no one saw or remembers seeing the correct man.

Let's say hypothetically you went to a gas station/convenience store today. If I asked you to write down a list of how many people were in the store, how many cars were in the parking lot, license plate numbers of those cars, and a description of the people you saw either pumping gas or buying items in the convenience store, could you do it?

I just got done going to a gas station a few hours ago before I thought up this post. And the only thing I can remember is that there were two cashiers, mainly because I have seen them before. I could describe the cashiers. That is all I can remember.

In my opinion, maybe the case is not solved because the sketches are wrong, the eyewitnesses are wrong, and the statements that the eyewitnesses gave are not about the same person or even the right person. This killer may have walked in there and walked out of there and no one may have seen him or remembered seeing him.

This is why I think what Liberty German did is so important.

A very good point. I had to pick up some medication at Walgreen's last night. I could identify the pharmacist who waited on me, and possibly the older gentleman who was waiting six feet back for his turn. I know there was another pharmacist behind the counter, but other than a general impression that she was a youngish woman, I couldn't give a description. There were at least two clerks behind the checkout behind the door; I heard them talking but I didn't look at them. I think there were other customers in the store but I didn't notice them. There were other cars in the parking lot but I didn't really pay attention to them either.

So yeah. That is highly likely to be a factor.

 

[drama_farmer]

One of the biggest arguments against this is that BG would not want to cross the creek because the water would be cold. Which to me, is ridiculous. This guy is going to murder two girls in cold blood and in broad daylight and he's going to worry about getting his feet wet? I don't think so.

The other question which always nags at me, and I'm not sure we'll ever know the answer to, is did the crime go as the killer planned?

That is, was it his intent to spend so little time with his victims to leave them fairly in the open, or did he, like Lizzy & Lyric's killer, intend to take them away somewhere more secluded in his car, take his time doing whatever horrible things he wanted, and then dispose of the bodies elsewhere? Anything could have interrupted his plan. People potentially coming by, one or both of the girls running, one of the girls fighting that led him to cut short whatever dastardly deeds he planned and make the kill and get out of there. For some reason, I tend to think the way the murders went down were not entirely aligned with his original plan. Either way though, could lead to vastly different conclusions about the motive, the M.O., and the murdered themselves. I certainly hope LE knows, or at least has a strong evidence-backed theory.

bbm
Great points.

IMO, a person who is experiencing the effects of adrenaline, or those who are in "predator" mode don't necessarily have the minor inconveniences of their chosen killing environment top of mind. A creek to cross? A bridge that looks kinda dangerous? If he is laser focused on his prey, I would think that his feelings about personal comfort ( boy, I hate getting my feet wet) or fear of heights (now that's a long way down!) would be very low on his list of priorities.

I've enjoyed following everyone's opinions about how some might react to having to cross the MHB, but the one opinion that will settle the matter isn't available at the moment. As scary and rickety and high off the ground that bridge looked to BG that day, keep in mind that he saw two girls either in the act of crossing or having just crossed it. Even if it was his very first time on MHB, wouldn't he be thinking "They made it across without incident, so of course I can, too.?"

In his predatory state, I would think that his strong motivation/desire/compulsion to cross that bridge to confront his prey was much stronger than any safety concerns he may have had.

Regarding what may have interrupted his plan to perhaps spend more time at the crime scene: Is it possible that he discovered Libby's phone (at or near the crime scene) and could read notifications/text messages on the home screen that said (just as an example) "I'm here at the Bridge to pick you up, where are you?

All MOO, JMO

 

[IceIce9]

Delphi plant is closed now too
Delphi pork production company suspending operations due to COVID-19 - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic

 

[cryssyx3]

Woah - you weren't kidding. From MSM:

I would have never considered this.

Amateur opinion and speculation

that's my news. David Johnson has been the morning anchor since I can remember, I was probably a tot and I just turned 30. I still think he looks pretty good.

one thing I think about, he could be local sure, buy he might not be. any one of us could turn around and run into bridge guy. someone may see him every day. I think he's just an average guy, average looks, average clothes, average job, average intelligence. just average.