Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

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I can't help but think the authorities have no clue who did this. They botched the case from the very beginning - calling off the search, etc.

I don't understand how ending the search that night had any bearing on the case, really. It was done for safety and other purposes.

Also there was no indication the girls were in danger. All the searchers and LE had were the SnapChat images, the images were spread around to searchers somewhere between 8PM and maybe 9:30 PM that night.

The images were the only indication the girls made it to the bridge.

They released useless sketches that present people who bear no resemblance to each other. They are so stubborn about not releasing any details that we can do little to help, and it is abundantly clear that they need help.

My opinion is they need someone who knows this guy to blow him in to LE, or he would need to re-offend and later it be determined he murdered the girls.

I would really like a firmer timeline, for example. The photo of Abby was taken at 2:07, but I see no reason why they can't release the time stamps for the video of BG on the bridge and the audio "down the hill." I have long suspected that BG first appeared on the south side of the bridge, walked past the girls, and became suspicious enough for Libby to start recording after he turned back toward them. A firm timeline could prove that - if there wasn't enough time for BG to walk across the bridge between the initial photo (which showed no one behind her) and the video.
Sigh...

I agree about a timeline from LE, if only for reference purposes.

JMO
 
I go off the premise that this is merely a media article, they need to get ad revenue, clicks, etc. So the information is ambiguous, at best, sometimes.

LE would never tell anyone not intimately involved in an investigation how someone died, before an arrest. Not in 2020 America.

JMO

Especially if they or someone in their family/household has not been cleared as a suspect. Families generally obtain more information from the morgue/funeral home regarding COD than they do from investigators. For example; a funeral director may say something to the family (who is planning for an open casket ceremony) like "your daughter has severe bruising and ligature marks around her neck and wrists. Would you like for us to provide makeup that will cover the bruising, or did you have an alternative plan in mind"? (Maybe something like a turtle-neck sweater with long sleeves). I do know there are times an open casket for viewing/services are strongly discouraged as well. Usually from an injury that would be difficult to cover up or hide. MOO
 
I have always wondered if some of these early statements from LE were because they (maybe) thought an arrest would be made quickly? "No need to worry, folks. We have a suspect that we will be taking into custody within the next few days", kind of mentality?

I've wondered if a lot of LE agencies do that early on.

Why in this case they were outwardly so confident, I don't know. They must have had the preliminary video and audio examination done in short order, but there's nothing definitive to draw from either, anyway.

They were overconfident, I think, and made a huge mistake by releasing the video and additional audio 2+ years on. They should have been released within a short time after the murders.

This perp murdered two girls in broad daylight, on someone's private property, within 3/8 of a mile of that bridge. By the time they did the preliminary analysis of the phone data, and combined that with the SnapChat uploads, they would have had a timeline to work with. Then the eyewitness information from trail users, DG, etc., would have helped try to figure out if anyone saw BG leave the area.

All that combined indicates to me an extremely dangerous individual, able to plan, perhaps prepare or partly prepare the CS beforehand, lurk/stalk for a while, then spring their fantasy once he honed in on not just one, but two potential victims, both unaccompanied juveniles, in broad daylight.

How LE thought they'd have it 'wrapped up' easily or whatever is beyond my comprehension.

JMO
 
I have always wondered if some of these early statements from LE were because they (maybe) thought an arrest would be made quickly? "No need to worry, folks. We have a suspect that we will be taking into custody within the next few days", kind of mentality?

That’s possible too. Probably another reason - if LE were to inform the public “hey, there’s a violent, dangerous murderer on the loose, better watch out as you might be next” this can give rise to shootings of innocent people if anyone thinks they’ve been handed the right to protect themselves from who they perceive might be a risk.
 
I go off the premise that this is merely a media article, they need to get ad revenue, clicks, etc. So the information is ambiguous, at best, sometimes.

LE would never tell anyone not intimately involved in an investigation how someone died, before an arrest. Not in 2020 America.

JMO

Wouldn’t the immediate family receive a death certificate which records the cause of death, if not the full autopsy report from the coroner? That’s not issued by police. JMO whether or not they’re cleared by LE is not directly connected to the fact their family member is deceased and a death certificate represents the confirmation.

Otherwise how would anyone related to a murder victim involving an unsolved homicide case go about settling the estate, collecting insurance or applying for other death benefits, etc?
 
As Kell1 indicated, the cops are playing the percentages when they say that BG is local. No non-local person should be ruled out. The detectives investigating Israel Keyes's various murders probably thought the perp was local, too.

Investigators will tell everyone they consider both local and non-local individuals. But the press conferences and sketches have put in everyone's mind an idea of this person Liberty German captured with her cell phone camera. I think most people are going to follow this information and use it as a guide for who they should be looking for.

In my opinion, that is why this case could be solved today or end up going on for years.
 
Wouldn’t the immediate family receive a death certificate which records the cause of death, if not the full autopsy report from the coroner? That’s not issued by police. JMO whether or not they’re cleared by LE is not directly connected to the fact their family member is deceased and a death certificate represents the confirmation.

Otherwise how would anyone related to a murder victim involving an unsolved homicide case go about settling the estate, collecting insurance or applying for other death benefits, etc?

I'd imagine autopsy reports in unsolved murders would not be available.

Death certificates would be available during a homicide investigation, they would be sent by certified mail. But they are available on request, they're not sent by mail automatically far as I know.

Family members would not be privy to autopsy information during an ongoing homicide investigation of a family members or family members.
 
BBM
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Did Leazenby say that on camera, or was Nancy Grace quoting or paraphrasing him? I've noticed in other podcasts that Nancy is not always careful about quoting people word for word. I know Leazenby has said that investigators have DNA evidence, but I'd be surprised if he came right out and said it was from the perpetrator.

During the interview, Nancy Grace asked Becky P. "Has law enforcement told you they have DNA?" Becky P replied "They have admitted there is DNA, but we don't know what kind....in an interview last week in our local newspaper. Tobe Leazenby said they even have a partial fingerprint."
 
Every time I read things about BG being above average/smart, etc...actually any criminal that is labeled smart...I feel a little irritated. I don’t think it takes “above average intellect” to commit crimes. Any idiot can obsess over and practice something and even prevent their own capture. It doesn’t take a genius, it just takes someone so insecure that they need to take something from another.
 
Every time I read things about BG being above average/smart, etc...actually any criminal that is labeled smart...I feel a little irritated. I don’t think it takes “above average intellect” to commit crimes. Any idiot can obsess over and practice something and even prevent their own capture. It doesn’t take a genius, it just takes someone so insecure that they need to take something from another.
I always have the same reaction. I see these Perps as defective, soul-less troglodytes with only the most basic instincts.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
During the interview, Nancy Grace asked Becky P. "Has law enforcement told you they have DNA?" Becky P replied "They have admitted there is DNA, but we don't know what kind....in an interview last week in our local newspaper. Tobe Leazenby said they even have a partial fingerprint."

BBM
So BG wasn't wearing gloves? That surprises me, since he seemed to have everything but his face covered.
 
I'd imagine autopsy reports in unsolved murders would not be available.

Death certificates would be available during a homicide investigation, they would be sent by certified mail. But they are available on request, they're not sent by mail automatically far as I know.

Family members would not be privy to autopsy information during an ongoing homicide investigation of a family members or family members.


Wouldn’t it be assumed immediate family members were in contact with the Coroner rather than requesting a death certificate through registered mail no different than a stranger?

Nor would the cause of death be a secret known only to LE. For example the searchers who found the bodies may know, the ambulance attendants, the employees at the morgue and the funeral home, etc. I’d be very surprised if the immediate family members were kept in the dark.

What’s a reason it’d be important for information involving the death of a child to be withheld from the family? They’re not who LE is concerned might offer false confessions or fabricate a malicious anonymous tip, wasting law enforcement’s time and resources. The information the family provides LE forms the basis of the investigation which LE needs to works with so it’s important they work together to ensure the investigation successfully results in arrest of the accused. If family is treated as prime suspects right off the bat, awaiting clearance, how would that go?

Probably the entire small community know much more than the general public who reads about the murders online, who never personally knew them - because these girls were part of their everyday lives and it’s natural that local people talk to one another rather than wait to read things in the news, blogs or SM, or listen to webcasts written or spoken by outsiders.

I just don’t think it’s for us to say what the family knows and doesn’t know as they’re under no obligation to disclose information to the general public.
 
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Someone knows who this guy is, I was watching the show on ID about Mickey Shunick and when her sister was watching video of her riding her bike even though it was blurry, she absolutely knew it was her and she said that a person can be identified by their mannerisms, not an exact quote. Does everyone think someone is covering for him?
 
Wouldn’t it be assumed immediate family members were in contact with the Coroner rather than requesting a death certificate through registered mail no different than a stranger?

Nor would the cause of death be a secret known only to LE. For example the searchers who found the bodies may know, the ambulance attendants, the employees at the morgue and the funeral home, etc. I’d be very surprised if the immediate family members were kept in the dark.

What’s a reason it’d be important for information involving the death of a child to be withheld from the family? They’re not who LE is concerned might offer false confessions or fabricate a malicious anonymous tip, wasting law enforcement’s time and resources. The information the family provides LE forms the basis of the investigation which LE needs to works with so it’s important they work together to ensure the investigation successfully results in arrest of the accused. If family is treated as prime suspects right off the bat, awaiting clearance, how would that go?

Probably the entire small community know much more than the general public who reads about the murders online, who never personally knew them - because these girls were part of their everyday lives and it’s natural that local people talk to one another rather than wait to read things in the news, blogs or SM, or listen to webcasts written or spoken by outsiders.

I just don’t think it’s for us to say what the family knows and doesn’t know as they’re under no obligation to disclose information to the general public.
A stranger can't get a death certificate in Indiana (not legally, anyway).
ISDH: Who Can Obtain a Death Certificate
 
Someone knows who this guy is, I was watching the show on ID about Mickey Shunick and when her sister was watching video of her riding her bike even though it was blurry, she absolutely knew it was her and she said that a person can be identified by their mannerisms, not an exact quote. Does everyone think someone is covering for him?

50,000 tips, even if only 20% of the tipsters think they recognize the man on the bridge that’s a whopping 10,000 potential suspects.

It seems LE is hoping for something more beyond recognition such as some type of critical information so they’re able to directly connect the suspect to the murders beyond a physical similarity. Often referred to is the missing piece of the puzzle but first they have to figure out if any puzzle piece that’s located originated from the right box.

If anyone is covering for him I think it’s because more than one person was involved and who is equally criminally responsible.
 
Its possbile he did, but usually they move considerable distances, away, they sometimes return to the areas they know but in many cases, what happens is , that they commit a crime, they get caught, from there they serve time, are under some form of supervision, or are aquitted, so either the people around them dont want them around, especially if what they did was "icky" or they figure, theythemselves want to get away from the scrutiny they are going to face so they leave. In the "old days" if you caught someone doing something sexual in nature, they sent them "somewhere" could be to live with grandparents, could be a cousin etc..

However, since, what were dealing with is pathological its not long before theyre back at it , then the process repeats itself. Especially once they fall into similar situations which they almost always do, then the scene is ripe for re-offending.

Unfortunately its impossible to render a true Psycholigical profile without certain items so again this is all speculative, but we can give a general profile of a few types that do these things.

In terms of the sketches, I think LE is doing its best, the video is really bad, its taken from a distance, that looks like it was zoomed in on an device, without the best camera. Its hard to do , you cant tell if he has on a hat , or is that his hair? , thats why they are saying its "somewhere in between" the 2

Though that is certainly a suspect, that needs to be questioned, you cant lose sight of the fact that the individual in the video may have absolutely nothing to do with their murder, but until we find him, talk to him and eliminate him "he" is the best link we have.. I beleive he does. It was just too coincidental.

I beleive were dealing with a lone offender, im not certain how he initially made contact with the victims, whether or not he was just out and came upon them, or if he saw them being dropped off, or if he knew they were going that day, or was following Libbys social media and decided to go for a walk once he saw 2 girls all alone.

But Im sure that it was sexually motivated, that the individual in question has a criminal history that most lilely involves, to some degree, sexual offenses, possily with young girls, I feel pretty confident something set him off in the days or weeks prior. Im thinking possibly a loss of employment, or an argument but again that could be wrong I dont have info to guide me there.

However, one thing not to ignore is theres a reason that individual is there on the same day off the girls are off from school, he may work at a school, he may work at their school , he may work nights, he may be out of work, but suddenly appearing at 2:30 on a thursday afternoon in the area where 2 girls are all alnoe and commit double murder seems a little bit too coincidental .

The use of the term "guys" in and of itself seems pretty intersting, that seems to indicate atleast a general familiarity with kids, thats a general term you see coaches, teachers, etc.. use. that leans me more toward the use of a ruse. if it were more demanding "go down the hill !" i think were dealing with a forced, move.

The individual would need to account for his time that day in most cases, unless he didnt have to because he wasnt working, but SOMEONE knows he was out during that time, and again, I think SOMEONE probably suspects him, but just hasnt come forward or hasnt put 2 and 2 together.

His presence obviously botherd the girls hence the video and audio, but not enough for them to flee, but without knowing what the girls would've done when approached by a stranger, its speculation at best.
I actually read but unfortunately I can’t find where at this moment In time, that the girls were aware of him approaching as they thought him creepy and he came upon them pretty fast.
I believe that he is a lone offender and I think a weapon was used to control and subdue the girls .
I think LE need to widen the parameters of the investigation by potentially doing a mass screening of DNA for males between ages 25-45 , that’s provided of course that there was DNA retrieved from the scene to compare in the first instance. I too think I know the manner of death and that the murder site and deposition site are one as the same and I believe that the girls were posed . Without having real insight as to the area, I cannot comment on why the girls didn’t shout for help but it could have been as simple as him asking the time and when they stop to respond, he grabs and incapacitates the first and terrifies the second into submission and / or fear of what he would do to her friend if she ran , possibly by using a gun or other weapon and thinking along the lines of safety in numbers ....
I believe that there is more on the recording that we are not privy to .
Just as an aside re the other two girls Lyric and am Elizabeth, how far away are the two abductions ?
TIA
 
Someone knows who this guy is, I was watching the show on ID about Mickey Shunick and when her sister was watching video of her riding her bike even though it was blurry, she absolutely knew it was her and she said that a person can be identified by their mannerisms, not an exact quote. Does everyone think someone is covering for him?

I was convinced someone knows the identity of BG, early on in 2019, three months before the PC where they showed the video. It was just a gut feeling, but...

Then Supt. Carter said at the PC the investigation had "changed direction" or "was heading in a new direction", something to that effect.

Makes me wonder if LE picked up on 'chatter' among people who had identified BG, or maybe thought they had.

I'm of the opinion people have ID'd BG, and it's family or other people close to him.

JMO
 
A stranger can't get a death certificate in Indiana (not legally, anyway).
ISDH: Who Can Obtain a Death Certificate

Thank you for checking that out. My point is there’s lots of reasons why family members require a death certificate, including finalizing the estate of the deceased. If anyone has a link indicating it’s typically withheld from family members during homicide investigations that would settle that.
 
I actually read but unfortunately I can’t find where at this moment In time, that the girls were aware of him approaching as they thought him creepy and he came upon them pretty fast.
I believe that he is a lone offender and I think a weapon was used to control and subdue the girls .
I think LE need to widen the parameters of the investigation by potentially doing a mass screening of DNA for males between ages 25-45 , that’s provided of course that there was DNA retrieved from the scene to compare in the first instance. I too think I know the manner of death and that the murder site and deposition site are one as the same and I believe that the girls were posed . Without having real insight as to the area, I cannot comment on why the girls didn’t shout for help but it could have been as simple as him asking the time and when they stop to respond, he grabs and incapacitates the first and terrifies the second into submission and / or fear of what he would do to her friend if she ran , possibly by using a gun or other weapon and thinking along the lines of safety in numbers ....
I believe that there is more on the recording that we are not privy to .
Just as an aside re the other two girls Lyric and am Elizabeth, how far away are the two abductions ?
TIA

They were a couple hours north of where this occurred, in Evansdale, though there were 2 victims in each case, which is indeed odd , I do not think the cases are related however .

Evansdale was more of a "stereotypical" abduction murder if you will , Im actually stunned that one hasn't been solved.

I agree with your assessment on this case , another possibility is someone posing as an authority figure or a property owner, and telling the girls to follow him .

Without a confession we may never know if the girls did indeed yell for help, its possible they just weren't heard. What I find harder is that none of them made a break for safety.

Which leads me to believe that either 1) they were in fear or 2) they weren't aware of the impending danger, even though they videoed someone approaching them.

But we know that this offender was successful in getting them to walk .5 mi to the spot they were found.
 
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