Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #126

[StarryStarryNight]

deleted by me. Kinda goofed it up.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

From my understanding, listening to Ives, the perp left tons of ruses, puzzles, not unlike what archeologists find.

Just my opinion, but Ives didn’t say any of this. He only commented on the amount of evidence at the crime scene and that he deemed some of it odd.

 

[Yemelyan]

Just my opinion, but Ives didn’t say any of this. He only commented on the amount of evidence at the crime scene and that he deemed some of it odd.

Thank you, @StarryStarryNight

People are going way too far down the rabbit hole on the staging and ruses line of thinking IMO. He didn't say or imply any of that.

I was reading something recently that struck me in how close it was to Ives' actual statement.

"The crime scene dynamics in sexually motivated murders can appear very different to those of other violent crimes. The physical and particularly sexual interactions committed by offenders against victims are unusual, and tend to appear bizarre, and can be difficult to interpret."

This excerpt is from a publication on homicide investigative strategies for LE that was prepared for local jurisdictions by the FBI.

Entirely my own opinion, but I think this is what Ives is talking about in the Delphi case, while trying not to reveal too much about the evidence investigators have. IMO being a sexually motivated murder, and of children, it's a rare type of crime with evidence of physical interactions he finds unusual and bizarre compared to the drunk fights and domestic violence cases that usually lead to murders he's seen.

 

[mimimarge]

If you listen GH addresses that. The lightning was very different, shot with RL is a overcast day, shot from GK's FB page was taken in bright sunny day...and from farther away. I think it's the same horse.

I see that GK being familiar with the Mears farm, right where the girl's were ket off by KG and it was discussed in the Nicole Bowen WS threads.

Found Deceased - IN - Newton County, Fem, 30 Mar 2019 - Nicole Bowen

GK has also linked himself to other property in that important Delphi trail area in phone interviews with someone who has posted them to youtube. Would these be allowed to be linked here, since they are GK himself speaking?

Not to beat a ... but I believe GH went over another horse there as well.

 

[mimimarge]

Perhaps he only had a driver’s permit and wasn’t able to drive without an adult in the front seat?
I also wonder if the bridge area particularly where the crime scene was is a place know to local teenagers as a hang out there they go to smoke, make out etc, IMO

Or perhaps someone that lost their license for duis and needed his son/nephew to drive ... thinking out loud.

 

[mimimarge]

Thank you. If items were moved from where they initially 'were' to where they now 'are' (at the crime scene/location of the bodies), why and what could they be?

The time he had after the murders appears to be tight and it seems he left the immediate area very soon afterwards. He was seen, I believe both before and after the murders. None of the witnesses mention him carrying anything (they could see), so the items could have been small, he just wasn't seen whilst moving them, or could he have moved them another time? Another day?

What were they? I don't know the area, other than from photos. I'm not familiar enough with the location to know where things are, that only those very familiar with the area know about. Guessing, it could be perhaps that maybe there's a small patch of a (possibly) rare plant/flowers, in the middle of a rarely used thicket, that isn't anywhere else. Are there a few train tracks, that aren't easy to spot from the trail? Is there a place where locals go to 'misbehave' and often leave certain objects behind (condoms/syringes/drink cans) that could be moved? Could he have taken something, flowers, a momento, from the cemetery?

It's hard to know whether the police are assuming only locals leave the trail, with visitors sticking to the paths. If this is the case, it isn't sufficient to suggest that someone is local just because they left the paths.

But if items which would be virtually impossible to just stumble across were moved, BG is either playing games with the crime scene, having watched lots of crime tv shows, or there's a very good reason why.

I do like the drug paraphenalia possibility. Could it have possibly been one of the geocaches? The mind can wander/wonder.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I do like the drug paraphenalia possibility. Could it have possibly been one of the geocaches? The mind can wander/wonder.

How does someone murder two kids and disappear unnoticed? We don’t know how he murdered them, but I am guessing he would have shown signs of the attack on his person. I am further guessing he needed to change his tell tale clothing or remove a jumpsuit of sorts. The type mechanics wear.
Did he use the empty house near the scene to change/clean up?

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[JnRyan]

Interesting. I know several commercial pilots, and my impression is, many come from the Air Force, and most have stellar IQ. I mean it. So high that it turns people humble. But maybe it makes people slightly theoretical, maybe to become the ace of aces you have to be a little bit of a Sully. After all, your actions are limited by the cockpit, and what you are describing - good geographical orientation - requires open horizon.

Many of your airline pilots are Navy, too. Interesting the mind set non-military folks have about the military. Many believe that because I was military I should be proficient with small arms. In fact, I've fired more rounds with my own handguns at a local range in one month than I fired handguns in the Navy in 20+ years. I qualified expert with both the rifle and handgun, but my father taught me to shoot a rifle and I bought a handgun and learned on my own. (If you think about it what is the primary weapons system most sailors fight with. A ship or submarine. So that is we have to be proficient with.) Spending time in the field is what soldiers and marines do and quite often. In fact, the USMC philosophy is ALL Marines are rifleman (or women) FIRST, then whatever their specialty is - clerk, cook, mechanic - is second. Sully, by the way was a fighter pilot. In addition to his degree from the USAF Academy he has two masters degrees.

I still think if this murderer has military experience it is likely Army or USMC. However, that is not really high on my list on how he got his outdoor experience. In fact, I believe the closest this guy has come to a soldier or marine is a wannabe. And not a very good wannabe at that.

 

[JnRyan]

How does someone murder two kids and disappear unnoticed? We don’t know how he murdered them, but I am guessing he would have shown signs of the attack on his person. I am further guessing he needed to change his tell tale clothing or remove a jumpsuit of sorts. The type mechanics wear.
Did he use the empty house near the scene to change/clean up?

amateur opinion and speculation

I tend to believe this killer walked in the direction of the cemetery and then stayed inside the treeline till he got to the beginning of the trail. That is, he minimized his exposure to others after the murders. I wonder if the some, if not all, of the witnesses saw him before the murders as opposed to after. But that is just how I picture it going down.

 

[JnRyan]

If there is dna, I wonder if local service clubs, rotary, lions etc, could host a ged match drive? Collect many samples from the community. Surely there is a cousin or relative that might participate and unknowingly give up the perp. Just a thought

There's a thought. I wonder if a service club could take that up. Further I wonder if LE could, covertly, provide some of the funding. I don't know the legal issues involved though.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just reflecting on the April/19 statement -

"We have a strong suspicion that the person is either from the area, has visited there before or has lived in the Delphi area for a number of years," said Sgt. Kim Riley of the State Police, who has served as a spokesman in the investigation....”
Delphi killings: What we know about killings of Abby and Libby

Are we to believe more than two years into the investigation it just suddenly occurred to the Task Force the suspect must’ve known something about the existence of High Bridge Trail in advance of the murders? Nothing of the uniqueness of crime scene had changed in over two years so did LE just suddenly have a great aha moment? If that is true, I’d have to wonder about the quality of the investigation in general. Taking over two years for the lightbulb to brightly glow over the improbability of a complete stranger swooshing in and out that same afternoon sounds like a keystone cops thing to me.

So no I don’t think the “announcement” was intended to be an inspiring new development in the investigation at all. But IMO the timing of it was made for a couple of very good reasons even though the investigation had all along focused only on possible suspects with some type of known association to Delphi. Why?

- once the scope broadened far and wide, LE just went with it. Especially if LE did have several local POIs, it can be strategic advantage for them to appear to be looking entirely in the wrong direction meanwhile hoping to hear local rumblings of loose lips.

- LE became weary of tips flooding in such as “I’m certain I saw the suspect walking down the isle at a Walmart in Florida last week”, tips on people without any known identity and connection to Indiana whatsoever and so the intent of the announcement was for amount of useless tips to be reduced and the overall quality to improve.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

Many of your airline pilots are Navy, too. Interesting the mind set non-military folks have about the military. Many believe that because I was military I should be proficient with small arms. In fact, I've fired more rounds with my own handguns at a local range in one month than I fired handguns in the Navy in 20+ years. I qualified expert with both the rifle and handgun, but my father taught me to shoot a rifle and I bought a handgun and learned on my own. (If you think about it what is the primary weapons system most sailors fight with. A ship or submarine. So that is we have to be proficient with.) Spending time in the field is what soldiers and marines do and quite often. In fact, the USMC philosophy is ALL Marines are rifleman (or women) FIRST, then whatever their specialty is - clerk, cook, mechanic - is second. Sully, by the way was a fighter pilot. In addition to his degree from the USAF Academy he has two masters degrees.

I still think if this has military experience it is likely Army or USMC. However, that is not really high on my list on how he got his outdoor experience. In fact, I believe the closest this guy has come to a soldier or marine is a wannabe. And not a very good wannabe at that.

Well, to this, you have to add, not only non-military, but also, growing in the country with no guns. Anton Chekhov, the famous author, once wrote, “IF in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired.” Some of us took it literally. Me, more in the way of, “If in the house with teenagers...”. (But, I once went to a rifle range and to my surprise, scored well, and it was also relieving the stress).
Sully was probably very analytical, but anxious in a way of “what if?”, so he had a website of different potential accident-prone situations, which later helped him. About commercial pilots, I am interested in whom I rely on 100%. You have to respect them, right? As to the Air Force, I love watching the Blue Angels, so I respect the physical part of the training as well. ))

 

[Charlot123]

There's a thought. I wonder if a service club could take that up. Further I wonder if LE could, covertly, provide some of the funding. I don't know the legal issues involved though.

Oh my god, if they made a donation drive for the Parabon workup, I’d contribute in a second! I think laymen could do it? The legality probably is, it can not come from LE, but can come from Parabon, a private company.

 

[Charlot123]

It sounds like the crime scene could have had garments, shoes, possibly a tent, plastic flowers from the cemetery, trail brochure, cigarette pack, etc... of SOMEONE ELSE'S that may have been either already been there that were "reappropriated" for staging... or were brought there intentionally to try to frame someone else.

It sounds like this guy was way too sinisterly smart. However, I still think he will not outsmart them in the long run.

I think one day, he will feel too bored with life. We are feeding him, too, with our interest. I am thinking, with the Internet abuzz over Delphi, one doesn’t need mementos. We provide them.

But one day, either his racing mind will take over, or he will simply feel his life being empty and useless. I think this will be the day... MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Just my opinion, but Ives didn’t say any of this. He only commented on the amount of evidence at the crime scene and that he deemed some of it odd.

This is why. And then, LE would be, “why this? What is this for? Is it a signature?”

I think they were very inexperienced village cops at the beginning. Maybe messed up for that reason. But I do think they grew up, maybe because they are constantly thinking about their case.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

This is why. And then, LE would be, “why this? What is this for? Is it a signature?”

I think they were very inexperienced village cops at the beginning. Maybe messed up for that reason. But I do think they grew up, maybe because they are constantly thinking about their case.

I agree the police were inexperienced with this type crime scene at the start. Mistakes were made I believe.
As far as questions like “why this?”, “what is this for?”, “Is this a signature?”...I think those are questions investigators ask at every crime scene, and don’t necessarily indicate the killer laid out an elaborate puzzle to confuse police or push blame elsewhere.

 

[helenann2k]

Lots of great discussion. I’ve always thought there was a link to geocaching and BG. I think he knew people would be geocaching that day, perhaps from a website that had locations and discussion. But, my main issue now is forensic DNA. They caught the golden state killer by putting his DNA through an ancestry type system. These kits are so advanced they can locate relatives around the world. They very likely could connect the DNA to someone. If the cost is prohibitive, I bet a fundraiser could get enough funds for this research. And...I think the Iowa girls Case should also use the same method.

 

[Falling Down]

Just my opinion, but Ives didn’t say any of this. He only commented on the amount of evidence at the crime scene and that he deemed some of it odd.

That's the way I interpreted it. Nothing in what he said perked my ears up, really.

 

[Falling Down]

If the killer is indeed a serial killer, looking into murders in those other cities may be interesting. Although, three years out, I would think similar crimes to Delphi, committed anywhere, would have jumped up by now. Nothing makes sense in this case.

I've looked at more cases than I care to remember in this region of the country, and tried to find ones involving people attacked and murdered on rural trails. They are exceedingly rare. The handful I found from the last 20 years or so involved adults. Mostly female, but at least two were males. IL, IN, MI, OH, and KY were the states I focused on.

MOO, this specific set of crimes at the MHB area took resources, planning, time, effort, etc., on the part of the killer. The trouble he went through to carry it out well exceeds that of other trail/woods killers I've researched.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

My POI is well educated and has a love for the arts in general.
I would like to state, for the record, I am not claiming to know that My POI is definitively the perpetrator.
What I will say is that he has been number one on my radar after doing many hours of research . Many.
Truth be told, I would be happy to find out that my POI is not who I think he is. It would be a relief.
AMOO JMO

What arts does he especially like? Does he have red hair?