Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[photographer4]

One issue I've always had with the cemetery line of thought is why jeans... If he always planned to cross the creek with both of them - Why would he not wear something a bit more sensible? It also leaves him more vulnerable when leaving because someone with their jeans soaked might stand out more sharply to someone who comes across them.

If he was really organized though... was he necessarily dealing with soaked jeans? Could he have plastic bags in his footwear that he just rolled up over his jeans to cover them enough so he wasn't wet? As a kid, I had plastic bags inside my winter boots for that very reason. I just rolled them up over the boots when I wanted to ensure my jeans would stay dry... would we even know if he did this???

 

[Spartygirl]

Police have said she died as a result of self harm, though: MSP: Missing teen’s death result of self-harm

You may have missed it but there was extensive speculation on this thread that all got cleaned up/deleted this morning as LE have been clear it's not a murder or related to other murders. So we can rule this one out as related to Delphi.

Ohhh-- my apologies to everyone and mods **
I did miss that article
Thanks for pointing it out

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Do we know if he was walking this in February time so that this is how the foliage would have looked for that time of year? found that real creepy like the Blair Witch project or somethin.

Does anyone know the difference between a hunters blind and a deer stand? I wonder if there were any blinds in the area.

 

[SamisDad]

Does anyone know the difference between a hunters blind and a deer stand? I wonder if there were any blinds in the area.

A Deer blind is usually a camouflage (usually) temporary structure either out of fabric or other material on the ground. A Deer stand is elevated, either on a tree or a stand alone structure, similar to an enclosed tree house.

 

[infinit]

If he was really organized though... was he necessarily dealing with soaked jeans? Could he have plastic bags in his footwear that he just rolled up over his jeans to cover them enough so he wasn't wet? As a kid, I had plastic bags inside my winter boots for that very reason. I just rolled them up over the boots when I wanted to ensure my jeans would stay dry... would we even know if he did this???

I guess that's true, not something I've seen much over here in the UK. If she'd taken the video from the left side of the bridge from her perspective, he'd have been directly in the sun and I doubt we'd all be here, it's frustrating he was so close to messing the entire thing up.

 

[photographer4]

Does anyone know the difference between a hunters blind and a deer stand? I wonder if there were any blinds in the area.

Asked a friend who is big on hunting and this was the explanation:
-> A deer stand is like a platform up high that hunters can watch and wait from. They can see the deer, and hopefully the deer won't notice them so will come within shooting range.
-> Platforms can be formal or thrown together. Some have lawn chair seating, some don't.
-> A blind is more of a tent thing that is usually on the ground. Its hard to see it, sometimes til you're right up near it. Deer don't always see it and when then get in range, the hunter can strike.

Check out this link for some info on both:
Tree Stand Vs. Ground Blind: What's Best for Whitetail?

 

[SamisDad]

If he was really organized though... was he necessarily dealing with soaked jeans? Could he have plastic bags in his footwear that he just rolled up over his jeans to cover them enough so he wasn't wet? As a kid, I had plastic bags inside my winter boots for that very reason. I just rolled them up over the boots when I wanted to ensure my jeans would stay dry... would we even know if he did this???

Do we even know if the girls clothes were wet from the creek? I'm not sure of the relevancy, but if the girls clothes were wet we could then surmise that the perp's clothing was wet at some point. Muddy boots thrown out and new boots purchased, (Due to concern over blood stain or boot impressions on the ground.). Blood on one's person at that time of year would not have been explainable by deer hunting at that time of year, unless maybe Duck/Geese season. A explanation to an observer of blood may have required a confession of poaching to avoid further inquiry. But lack of evidence in the freezer would disrupt that story.
Would wetness, blood or mud have been noticeable to a passerby on the trail or in town,
or anyone picking the perp up from the creek area
or by a member of the perp's household?
Hunting partners may have discussed previous scouting out of the area without follow-up. Due to not wanting to place themselves in the area of the murders.

 

[Ozoner]

Interesting
I don’t remember anything sticking out where they expressed lack of confidence in suspects. I understand they aren’t sure if the DNA or fingerprints belong to the suspect but don’t think it discounts their list of suspects. IMO LE missing a piece to the puzzle displays confidence in suspect list.

You're missing the point. The point is, just because they have 3–4 suspects—if they're even using that terminology—that doesn't mean that BG is one of them. It just means that there are 3–4 potential POIs that they haven't been able to clear.It's entirely possible that BG is not even on their list of suspects.
You misquoted LE when you said that they had it "narrowed down." LE has never used that verbiage.

 

[photographer4]

Do we even know if the girls clothes were wet from the creek? I'm not sure of the relevancy, but if the girls clothes were wet we could then surmise that the perp's clothing was wet at some point. Muddy boots thrown out and new boots purchased, (Due to concern over blood stain or boot impressions on the ground.). Blood on one's person at that time of year would not have been explainable by deer hunting at that time of year, unless maybe Duck/Geese season. A explanation to an observer of blood may have required a confession of poaching to avoid further inquiry. But lack of evidence in the freezer would disrupt that story.
Would wetness, blood or mud have been noticeable to a passerby on the trail or in town,
or anyone picking the perp up from the creek area
or by a member of the perp's household?
Hunting partners may have discussed previous scouting out of the area without follow-up. Due to not wanting to place themselves in the area of the murders.

Its interesting how many people imagine there might be blood at the scene or on the perp! There may have been none at all. Cause of death has never been revealed. He could have strangled the girls, broken their necks, drowned them.... none of these would involve blood on the guy unless he was defending himself from them fighting him and they managed to draw blood or he drew theirs somehow.

In regards to wetness on the girl's clothing: we do not know anything about how the girls were found (dressed or not dressed). We don't know where or how their clothing was found. If they'd been through the creek almost 24 hours before they were murdered though, would it stand to reason that their clothes would have been dry to damp by the time they were located given it was February, and had been foggy on the night of the 13th - perhaps it was damp out?

Interesting to note here as well, LE have indicated that the searchers who found the girls may not have known what they found. Maybe they didn't recognize it immediately as a crime scene? Perhaps they thought the girls had died accidentally? If they didn't know they were looking at a crime scene, possibly the girls were dressed? Undressed would have been a good clue that the girls were murdered vs having died as the result of some crime, no?

 

[MistyWaters]

So if there was a deer stand there, at the end of the bridge right near where the girls shot that last photo of Abby.... is it possible that their killer was lurking in there?

Apparently the speculation was it was on Mears property, quite a distance from the end of the bridge. IIRC that’s who owned the land where the girls were dropped off and on the other side of the road.

 

[MistyWaters]

You're missing the point. The point is, just because they have 3–4 suspects—if they're even using that terminology—that doesn't mean that BG is one of them. It just means that there are 3–4 potential POIs that they haven't been able to clear.It's entirely possible that BG is not even on their list of suspects.
You misquoted LE when you said that they had it "narrowed down." LE has never used that verbiage.

I agree, other than a cold as ice case, every investigation has a few POIs on their radar including people they’ve been unsuccessful in locating. In this case LE have never stated one or more is the known killer so I don’t think we’re expected to assume that’s what they’re saying. IMO the response including the word “or” was intended as an indication LE are actively working on the case. It also dispels rumours that LE knows who it is.

 

[photographer4]

Apparently the speculation was it was on Mears property, quite a distance from the end of the bridge. IIRC that’s who owned the land where the girls were dropped off and on the other side of the road.

The deer stand I'm asking about was said to be at the SOUTH side of the bridge, apparently to the RIGHT of the bridge and near the area where I believe BG said DTH.... This is per a video I posted up thread taken of the area by Juli Melvin for Grey Hughes...

 

[stattlich1]

I hate to keep harping on it, and I'll likely have to eat a whole bunch of crow when the truth finally is revealed, but what BG looked like after the murders wouldn't matter a hill of beans if he simply walked up that hill, got in his car at the cemetery, and drove away.

I'm with another poster in terms of understanding the lack of people around. IMO, there simply wasn't anyone nearby. Both closest homes were unoccupied at the time (that in and and of itself I would think is an interesting tidbit, like, did BG know this?).

Every time I see a video of someone driving back road 300, I don't see any other cars. Granted, I don't watch all of them end to end, but I think one should understand there simply isn't anyone around.

Every time I see video of that cemetery, some yt'er, or blogger drives through it, guess what.....it's empty, nobody around.

I'll be quiet now

All MOO.

 

[photographer4]

CNN.com - Transcripts

CASAREZ: So did you go -- did you go out -- since this was your property, you find out that they are there. Did you go out to the crime scene

yourself?

LOGAN: The crime scene has been closed off. It was not -- my property was not released back to me until late Wednesday. I went to the crime scene

Thursday morning to try to get a feeling of it. And it`s still difficult to just...

LOGAN: What did you see when you went out there?

CASAREZ: There was not much to see, other than the crime scene tape around the area. The area was still very pristine. You couldn`t actually tell

that there was any such a violent action.

CASAREZ: You didn`t see any blood? You didn`t see a gruesome scene?

LOGAN: No, nothing. The area was very, very pristine. There was nothing there to see. I mean, really...

******************************
Did the police hire a crime scene clean up crew to go out after their investigation of the scene was completed? That would be interesting to know, because if not, he said you couldn't tell except for Crime Scene Tape that there was any "such a violent act" there.

So if a clean up crew hadn't been out there to clean the area, how much blood was there at the scene (if any)? This suggests to me that there may not have been much if any at all!

 

[TL4S]

CNN.com - Transcripts

CASAREZ: So did you go -- did you go out -- since this was your property, you find out that they are there. Did you go out to the crime scene

yourself?

LOGAN: The crime scene has been closed off. It was not -- my property was not released back to me until late Wednesday. I went to the crime scene

Thursday morning to try to get a feeling of it. And it`s still difficult to just...

LOGAN: What did you see when you went out there?

CASAREZ: There was not much to see, other than the crime scene tape around the area. The area was still very pristine. You couldn`t actually tell

that there was any such a violent action.

CASAREZ: You didn`t see any blood? You didn`t see a gruesome scene?

LOGAN: No, nothing. The area was very, very pristine. There was nothing there to see. I mean, really...

******************************
Did the police hire a crime scene clean up crew to go out after their investigation of the scene was completed? That would be interesting to know, because if not, he said you couldn't tell except for Crime Scene Tape that there was any "such a violent act" there.

So if a clean up crew hadn't been out there to clean the area, how much blood was there at the scene (if any)? This suggests to me that there may not have been much if any at all!

I'm not convinced that RL, family, or news media sources even know the exact location where the bodies were found. JMO.

 

[Beachlife926]

You're missing the point. The point is, just because they have 3–4 suspects—if they're even using that terminology—that doesn't mean that BG is one of them. It just means that there are 3–4 potential POIs that they haven't been able to clear.It's entirely possible that BG is not even on their list of suspects.
You misquoted LE when you said that they had it "narrowed down." LE has never used that verbiage.

I’m not missing the point and agree with your explanation. IMO since we have additional info as LE has mentioned they needed one piece of puzzle then I could only hope they have the suspect in there 3-4 suspect list and they aren’t totally off track.
I didn’t quote LE and wasn’t trying to start rumors. I’m sorry for the confusion (still getting use to this.)

 

[photographer4]

I'm not convinced that RL, family, or news media sources even know exactly where the crime scene where the bodies were found was located. JMO.

I'd imagine he probably did know given the crime scene tape was still up. You'd think that if he wandered his property, if the property was released back to him, he could have gone beyond the tape and looked around - and it seems that he did that. So if nothing jumped out at him, why not?

 

[TL4S]

I'd imagine he probably did know given the crime scene tape was still up. You'd think that if he wandered his property, if the property was released back to him, he could have gone beyond the tape and looked around - and it seems that he did that. So if nothing jumped out at him, why not?

RL has something like 20 plus acres of wooded property along the creek, I think. He said himself it's hard to navigate, and I don't know where all he might have looked. There was tape left behind in the location we've all seen below the cemetery, but LE has never confirmed that as the location of the murders, have they? I don't doubt they might have exited the creek there, or evidence of one sort or another was found there. But I have conflicts with settling 100% on that being the final crime scene...JMO

 

[TL4S]

Dbm. Double post.

 

[Spartygirl]

You're missing the point. The point is, just because they have 3–4 suspects—if they're even using that terminology—that doesn't mean that BG is one of them. It just means that there are 3–4 potential POIs that they haven't been able to clear.It's entirely possible that BG is not even on their list of suspects.
You misquoted LE when you said that they had it "narrowed down." LE has never used that verbiage.

TL said that on the HLN special-- speaking about possible names/people
"" that possibly at this stage, we have narrowed that list down, you know, maybe, you know, 3 to 3 or 4.
Transcript of Chapter 9: Three Februaries from Down The Hill: The Delphi Murders podcast | Happy Scribe Public