Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #141

[sandy_80]

the second sketch was done based on a witness.. there is no confusion there
But this sketch is not new. The sketch released Monday was drawn on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to the sketch artist.

Delphi murders: Investigators have had suspect sketch for 2 years

 

[MistyWaters]

the second sketch was done based on a witness.. there is no confusion there
But this sketch is not new. The sketch released Monday was drawn on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to the sketch artist.

Delphi murders: Investigators have had suspect sketch for 2 years

Right, it was not new. But for some reason LE chose not to release it to the public as a representation of the suspect until April 2019. By then they knew for over two years that KAK was impersonating himself by using photos of the model. So I think it’s unlikely the 2nd sketch was drawn from by a memory of someone seeing a pic on a cellphone.

 

[TL4S]

The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to the sketch artist.

sbm

Yes. Although, I do think it is possible that what this witness saw was something online. I guess I can't deny that part, and if a_shots was not known about at the time, I could go with the theory that this witness saw the a_shots profile "liking" one of L's posts and thought it was suspicious so needed reporting. But, due to the affidavit, we know that LE was aware of a_shots long before the 2019 sketch switch, so that pretty clearly negates that possibility, to me.

 

[HistoryNut]

My interpretation of the Peru search affidavit's opening paragraph is that KK was already known to be using the a_shots account, so I'm going to guess LE was aware of the fake photos immediately. They used the IP address associated with the a_shots account in the subpoenas to Comcast to find the Peru address.

If that is the case, then I don't think LE would release a sketch who was likely based on the online photos since that was not who was at the bridge that day. Jmo.

I very well might be reading that affidavit incorrectly, but I have always got the impression that the FBI turned KK over to the ISP because they already knew what he was up to. I think the FBI was already watching a_shots...

DocumentCloud

I think the FBI was watching him, too. The strangest thing, IMO, was that the ISP didn’t mention that the creator of the profile was already incarcerated. The media released that information and KAKs mugshot, but strangely, ISP has never addressed this.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think the FBI was watching him, too. The strangest thing, IMO, was that the ISP didn’t mention that the creator of the profile was already incarcerated. The media released that information and KAKs mugshot, but strangely, ISP has never addressed this.

Maybe it was LE’s way of sticking to their pledge about not discussing suspects, by seeking information that was an extension of his actions?

 

[Megnut]

the second sketch was done based on a witness.. there is no confusion there
But this sketch is not new. The sketch released Monday was drawn on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to the sketch artist.

Delphi murders: Investigators have had suspect sketch for 2 years

If the sketch was drawn from something someone witnessed online, is it possible LE released it in the hopes others might recognize the images, also from online? Even if they drew the connection to the KAK images having been co-opted? If that released photo is a rendition of the model's photo, perhaps they had his permission to release the sketch -- but not his actual identifying photos -- I'm order to find other girls who thought they were talking to someone with that likeness.

Possible?

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

If the sketch was drawn from something someone witnessed online, is it possible LE released it in the hopes others might recognize the images, also from online? Even if they drew the connection to the KAK images having been co-opted? If that released photo is a rendition of the model's photo, perhaps they had his permission to release the sketch -- but not his actual identifying photos -- I'm order to find other girls who thought they were talking to someone with that likeness.

Possible?

JMO

I’d be sceptical they did that for a couple of reasons. Involvement by KAK has not been conclusively linked to the Delphi murders. LE knew who was behind impersonating the image of the model, so wouldn’t he be the focus instead? Rather than releasing a sketch that couldn’t possibly be the suspect, if LE were looking for other catfishing victims, they could’ve done what they did just recently, plain out asked referring to anthony_shots.

 

[TL4S]

If the sketch was drawn from something someone witnessed online, is it possible LE released it in the hopes others might recognize the images, also from online? Even if they drew the connection to the KAK images having been co-opted? If that released photo is a rendition of the model's photo, perhaps they had his permission to release the sketch -- but not his actual identifying photos -- I'm order to find other girls who thought they were talking to someone with that likeness.

Possible?

JMO

I think at the 2019 PC, DC said the newer sketch was of the man on the bridge (or something to that effect). If the sketch was knowingly of the model, that would be an outright lie on the part of LE, and I'm not sure that would be productive to their investigation. As @MistyWaters said above, I think them more likely to release an ask.

 

[AC4RD]

@Yemelyan thank you for your always thoughtful, informative posts

I second that motion! Informative, well-informed, and helpful--thanks, Yemelyan!

 

[AC4RD]

In this scenario tbe only people not to know a third person was there is the general public. BG knows, police know. MOO this witness wpuld have to have complete witness protection.

You're right, and Charlot123's hypothesis about a third (or more) person also provides extra explanation for the remarkable degree of secrecy that LE and the Delphi community have maintained, IMO. We've often talked about how LE and Delphi have kept leaks of inside information to an extraordinary minimum over these years, something that requires a lot of commitment from everybody involved, right?

Charlot's "third girl theory" would suggest that LE and the people of the Delphi area are extremely protective of inside information to protect that third (or more) girl (or whomever.) "Don't say a word to outsiders, dear--we've got to make sure nobody knows that Cordelia Learsdotter was there and saw BG!" Makes perfect sense, as a working theory.

Interesting!

 

[MistyWaters]

I think at the 2019 PC, DC said the newer sketch was of the man on the bridge (or something to that effect). If the sketch was knowingly of the model, that would be an outright lie on the part of LE, and I'm not sure that would be productive to their investigation. As @MistyWaters said above, I think them more likely to release an ask.

Yes the theory would hold weight if LE hadn’t already known KAK was impersonating himself by using a pic of a model. But after the fact, releasing a sketch of a likeness they knew could not be the murderer wouldn’t further the investigation along at all.

 

[TL4S]

You're right, and Charlot123's hypothesis about a third (or more) person also provides extra explanation for the remarkable degree of secrecy that LE and the Delphi community have maintained, IMO. We've often talked about how LE and Delphi have kept leaks of inside information to an extraordinary minimum over these years, something that requires a lot of commitment from everybody involved, right?

Charlot's "third girl theory" would suggest that LE and the people of the Delphi area are extremely protective of inside information to protect that third (or more) girl (or whomever.) "Don't say a word to outsiders, dear--we've got to make sure nobody knows that Cordelia Learsdotter was there and saw BG!" Makes perfect sense, as a working theory.

Interesting!

If there was a third person along, that LE has managed to keep a secret from us, then I guess my question would be why two different sketches? That third person would be the best witness of all and there would be no need for a composite sketch (reportedly done through multiple witnesses) or otherwise. Unless LE didn't trust that third person, of course...

 

[Charlot123]

IF there was someone on the bridge with the two girls, it could have been only someone, who didn't have to run for his life because of BG, but who knew him and made common cause with him, IMO. The girls wouldn't have known, their acquaintance knew the approaching "creepy" BG, IMO. Otherwise: how did the acquaintance get away unmolested/unpursued by BG?

I was considering it as well. One of my versions is, supposedly, there was a reason for the girls to insist on going to the bridge that day, how do we know they didn’t meet (*who they planned on meeting*). That person could have crossed the bridge with them, and then, in the face of danger, either fled, or turned against them.

It is just one of the ideas. I suddenly realized that if I try to reconstruct the scene, something, or someone, is missing. JMO.

 

[Boxer]

MOO If the girls were meeting someone, the "girl" chatter before hand would have revealed that.

 

[MistyWaters]

If there was a third person along, that LE has managed to keep a secret from us, then I guess my question would be why two different sketches? That third person would be the best witness of all and there would be no need for a composite sketch (reportedly done through multiple witnesses) or otherwise. Unless LE didn't trust that third person, of course...

If there was a third girl, this hasn’t been helpful in solving the case as almost five years have passed. That also flys in the face of LEs stated belief that the murderer could be someone who’s fairly well known in the community who’s hiding in plain sight. By now there’d be little value in LE and locals to keep her involvement a close kept secret. She’d just be yet another witness with no idea who it is because she didn’t recognize the killer. JMO

 

[Prime8]

(fumblefingers EBM)
To me, that sounds a lot like bureaucratic whitewash for "we really probably should have done that but 'my bad.'" Just MHO on that interpretation.

I've lived in 3 states and have never had an Amber Alert that didn't include a vehicle description. I think technically the alerts don't have to be tied to a vehicle but I think most states have guidelines put in place that are very specific.

 

[Prime8]

Imagine Libby’s feeling if someone (“a friend”) was standing behind her, Abby has almost crossed the bridge, and that oddball BG was somewhere in the middle. That explains why Libby didn’t yell, nor called 911. Among three people, she’d feel protected.

I've never been under the impression that Libby started filming because she was scared. I've always interpreted the information was that she either started filming him specifically because he was being a creep but it was more like, ha, look at that creep. Kelsie has stated that Libby would commonly take pictures of people she found odd in public. Not in a serious investigative way, but a young person making fun of people. The other interpretation is that she was filming randomly (which young people do ALL THE TIME) and it just happened that he came into frame and then they started talking about him. If girls and women panicked and called 911 every time there was a creep in our vicinity... well the lines would be jammed 24/7. I've never thought that the girls realized they were in danger until they were ordered to go with him. They were probably gearing to cross the bridge once he was off and maybe having an awkward encounter.

 

[CrimeAway]

I wish that the ISP had got Kelly Lawson from the GBI to help with witness sketches.

Putting a face to a case: Pencils and clay are crimefighting tools in forensic artist’s hands

Forensic Art

 

[acutename]

Yep! Agree completely with you on this! Been in those “should I call police?” situations myself but it was an overwhelming anxiety of “what if it’s nothing, you’re just paranoid” that would prevent me from calling the cops, that or family history with the police (I grew up in a small town).
i do wonder what prompted LG to start taping, like did he interact with them at the trail that day prior to seeing them on MHB?? Something made the girls feel uncomfortable and I’m starting to get the feeling he was busy following the girls around the trails that day.
So witnesses say they did see BG that day, does anyone have a time frame on the BG sightings from the other ppl in the park and when the snap of Abby was taken? He had to have been lurking around, but no one saw the girls… I’m wondering when ppl did see BG was it before or after the crime had taken place? If it was after I’m curious to know how he was acting. All imo


Mods, please delete this part if not allowed;
I’m also pondering about BG eye color, what did one of the witnesses say? Was it blue eyes or NOT blue eyes? I honestly don’t remember what she said but I do remember that being discussed briefly here awhile back. If they/she was able to say something about eye color I wonder what else they might remember without even knowing it. Moo

Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The ...
https://www.websleuths.com › threads › page-33
Jul 18, 2020 — Going back to the witness that said eyes are definitely not blue....unless she is describing someone hispanic or black, do you really notice ...
20 posts · margarita25 said: ↑. I'm still going with my initial instinct that this is a random perp, ...

 

[MistyWaters]

I've lived in 3 states and have never had an Amber Alert that didn't include a vehicle description. I think technically the alerts don't have to be tied to a vehicle but I think most states have guidelines put in place that are very specific.

Yes the amber alert was discussed to the point of the dead horse being beaten in the early days. LE had absolutely no evidence the girls were abducted against their will from the bridge area, much less a vehicle description. I agree with how it is - Amber alerts are reserved for genuine emergencies when a known abduction is taking place. Imagine if an amber alert was put out for every teen who went missing, soon no one would pay attention to them. JMO