Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #142

[somequestions]

There are two things I wonder about this crime:

First, where was the killer's vehicle parked? There had to be a vehicle somewhere.

Second, why did the killer wait so long before abducting Abby and Libby?

If the girls were dropped off at between 1:30 and 1:40 pm, but the photo of Abby on the bridge was not taken until 2:07pm, where was the killer during this time? The abduction had to happen after 2:07 pm. Did the killer arrive after the girls or did the killer wait around for a while?

It is difficult to determine if the Monon High Bridge area gets a lot of pedestrian traffic? If you went out to the Monon High Bridge tomorrow and pretended to put yourself in the shoes of the killer, would you park at the cemetery and wait around for a victim around the Monon High Bridge? That had to be the plan if there was one.

And why direct them across the creek, if they were directed across the creek, or even in the direction of where they were found? If the killer could walk out of there possibly without being seen, why not march them to his vehicle parked in the cemetery to leave the area? Is that not better than cold wet feet in February while trying to cross a creek?

That never made sense to me. Maybe the vehicle was parked so far away as to not be able to march the victims to it without being seen?

 

[sunshineray]

But what does that mean? It honestly means nothing unless it's coming directly from someone we know has access to case information.

All I know is that GH is an allowed WS source. GH is saying, in that video I posted, that Anna Williams told him first hand the gun information/conversation. Anna Williams told GH that LE told her, first hand, that same information.

Edit: That's my understanding of it

We are left to speculate with that.

 

[Charlot123]

I think those shaming words could have been meant for an older man too, if that older man was showing an earnest and responsible facade daily in the community.

I don't know the part of the country these murders occured in but religion does seem more established in a grassroots community way there than say in a city. Killer may have been brought up religiously but is not faithful in any way. A lot of times people just go along with the flow for show. I've known a few but I can't see a murderer of children as any honest man of religion, no way, no how. AJMO

History knows zealots of unmeasurable cruelty, such as Torquemada. And while most crimes and wars occur over land, money, or power, for these men, their actions were about pure unadulterated power. But they were believers. In this regard, DC's words "it is about power to you", might describe a person, who, among other traits, is fanatically religious. But hard to tell.

 

[sunshineray]

History knows zealots of unmeasurable cruelty, such as Torquemada. And while most crimes and wars occur over land, money, or power, for these men, their actions were about pure unadulterated power. But they were believers. In this regard, DC's words "it is about power to you", might describe a person, who, among other traits, is fanatically religious. But hard to tell.

I agree. Some of the worse crimes against humanity have been done in the name of religion.

 

[asyousay]

As I haven’t been around in the thread properly for at least 3 years.


Is there belief this will be solved?

 

[sandy_80]

There are two things I wonder about this crime:

First, where was the killer's vehicle parked? There had to be a vehicle somewhere.

Second, why did the killer wait so long before abducting Abby and Libby?

If the girls were dropped off at between 1:30 and 1:40 pm, but the photo of Abby on the bridge was not taken until 2:07pm, where was the killer during this time? The abduction had to happen after 2:07 pm. Did the killer arrive after the girls or did the killer wait around for a while?

It is difficult to determine if the Monon High Bridge area gets a lot of pedestrian traffic? If you went out to the Monon High Bridge tomorrow and pretended to put yourself in the shoes of the killer, would you park at the cemetery and wait around for a victim around the Monon High Bridge? That had to be the plan if there was one.

And why direct them across the creek, if they were directed across the creek, or even in the direction of where they were found? If the killer could walk out of there possibly without being seen, why not march them to his vehicle parked in the cemetery to leave the area? Is that not better than cold wet feet in February while trying to cross a creek?

That never made sense to me. Maybe the vehicle was parked so far away as to not be able to march the victims to it without being seen?

why not that he hitchhiked ?
the answer to ur second question.. you should take in consideration.. the walking time the girls spent to get to the trails and to their position on the bridge ...he might have seen them around the time they entered the trails but was waiting for them to be trapped at the end

 

[JnRyan]

Less than 2 weeks to the 5 year mark. (I don't like calling these events "anniversaries".) I would have thought if something from LE or the media was going to take place we'd have started to hear something by now. I wonder how much the stories about JBC and KAK affect that aspect. If the sheriff wants to remain silent on JBC and, maybe, KAK, maybe he figures this would be bad timing.

 

[minazoe]

I think that it would be very interesting if they buck the presser in order to avoid discussing the question on everyone's minds! mOO

 

[JnRyan]

I think that it would be very interesting if they buck the presser in order to avoid discussing the question on everyone's minds! mOO

If by "The Question", you mean JBC or KAK, yes, I've found myself wondering that same thing.

 

[somequestions]

why not that he hitchhiked ?
the answer to ur second question.. you should take in consideration.. the walking time the girls spent to get to the trails and to their position on the bridge ...he might have seen them around the time they entered the trails but was waiting for them to be trapped at the end

The killer could have hitchhiked, but that is taking an awful risk isn't it? What if the police sketch ended up being correct and the person that dropped off the killer recognized them from the sketch?

I took into consideration the idea the girls may have taken it slow getting to the Monon High Bridge by playing around, taking pictures, and talking. I know that once they were on the Monon High Bridge, Abby is said to have commented to Libby about the man being behind them. Maybe Libby did not start recording until the girls felt threatened by this person walking towards them on the bridge? I thought if Libby had started recording earlier or taking pictures of Abby earlier there might have been some sign of this person in the audio or earlier pictures.

I thought there is a possibility the killer did not enter the Monon High Bridge trail the same way as everyone else. He did not come from the Freedom Bridge area. He did not come from the location Kelsi dropped the girls off. If the killer did park his vehicle at the cemetery and walk from there through the woods to the Monon High Bridge, why not walk the girls back out the same way? Where is the crime scene in relation to this path?

I think it is human nature that we tend to enter a place and leave it the same way. Until the crime scene is discovered no one is going to notice anything or being looking for anything suspicious.

 

[Jo in Calif]

As I haven’t been around in the thread properly for at least 3 years.


Is there belief this will be solved?

Yes, coming up on 5 years there is still belief that this will be solved.

 

[bowler]

Bravo! But what the heck does “only the vast majority” mean? Has everyone in the family been cleared or not?

What criteria wasn’t met for an Amber Alert? The girls were missing. They were left alone in the woods and were supposed to meet their ride home at a certain time but they never showed up. Didn’t answer their cell phone either. The woods can be a dangerous place for two young girls, especially with a dangerous 60 foot bridge that was off limits to pedestrians. Their clothing was describable.
At the time people were searching in other local places where they thought the girls could have gone to. They could have been anywhere and the alert would have alerted many more people to be on the look out. Who knows, maybe someone could have seen the killer walking about and later helped to identify him. And more importantly, Officer, at the time, they didn’t know they were already dead. IMO

Search dogs would have detected their path, right to their bodies as well as possibly indicated the escape route of the killer, or even found him if he was hiding in the woods, or inside a car. Again, at the time, Officer, they didn’t know they were dead. In fact, they could have still been alive and survived to tell the tale. IMO

It will be interesting to learn the primary cause of death.
I sure hope it wasn’t hypothermia, before they succumbed to their brutal injuries. IMO

They got the teenager treatment...

 

[asyousay]

Whoever the man is he had to be confident on that bridge to pull this off.


He didn’t know how they would react and it was out in the open , early afternoon.


Looking at the bridge guy and then the sketch I still think it’s a older man.


moo

 

[Ravenmoon]

As I haven’t been around in the thread properly for at least 3 years.


Is there belief this will be solved?

Imo , Yes.

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

There are two things I wonder about this crime:

First, where was the killer's vehicle parked? There had to be a vehicle somewhere.

Second, why did the killer wait so long before abducting Abby and Libby?

If the girls were dropped off at between 1:30 and 1:40 pm, but the photo of Abby on the bridge was not taken until 2:07pm, where was the killer during this time? The abduction had to happen after 2:07 pm. Did the killer arrive after the girls or did the killer wait around for a while?

It is difficult to determine if the Monon High Bridge area gets a lot of pedestrian traffic? If you went out to the Monon High Bridge tomorrow and pretended to put yourself in the shoes of the killer, would you park at the cemetery and wait around for a victim around the Monon High Bridge? That had to be the plan if there was one.

And why direct them across the creek, if they were directed across the creek, or even in the direction of where they were found? If the killer could walk out of there possibly without being seen, why not march them to his vehicle parked in the cemetery to leave the area? Is that not better than cold wet feet in February while trying to cross a creek?

That never made sense to me. Maybe the vehicle was parked so far away as to not be able to march the victims to it without being seen?

First question~

IMO , we don't know what mode of transportation , if any the killer used.
Could have been a bicycle. He may have left on foot. If he was a local, there are homes along Deer creek and others nearby. If snowbirds were not at home- he could well know who they were and taken refuge inside of a home or outbuilding until he was "cleaned up" and felt bold enough to move about.

Second question~

It's possible that he waited for an opportune time to move ahead with his attack.
Maybe there were other people in the vicinity prior to his attempt?
Or, maybe he had HOPED they would make their way down the bridge KNOWING that he could "trap" them there. They would have to wait for him to get to where they were before they could attempt to recross. It's also likely that he sensed they nervousness/fear , and he took FULL advantage of that.

AMOO MOO JMO

 

[sandy_80]

The killer could have hitchhiked, but that is taking an awful risk isn't it? What if the police sketch ended up being correct and the person that dropped off the killer recognized them from the sketch?

I took into consideration the idea the girls may have taken it slow getting to the Monon High Bridge by playing around, taking pictures, and talking. I know that once they were on the Monon High Bridge, Abby is said to have commented to Libby about the man being behind them. Maybe Libby did not start recording until the girls felt threatened by this person walking towards them on the bridge? I thought if Libby had started recording earlier or taking pictures of Abby earlier there might have been some sign of this person in the audio or earlier pictures.

I thought there is a possibility the killer did not enter the Monon High Bridge trail the same way as everyone else. He did not come from the Freedom Bridge area. He did not come from the location Kelsi dropped the girls off. If the killer did park his vehicle at the cemetery and walk from there through the woods to the Monon High Bridge, why not walk the girls back out the same way? Where is the crime scene in relation to this path?

I think it is human nature that we tend to enter a place and leave it the same way. Until the crime scene is discovered no one is going to notice anything or being looking for anything suspicious.

idk..you have to think about which could have been more dangerous for him.. leaving a vehicle that can be spotted.. or walking a long distance and hitchhiking ..
this was suggested very early in the case when LE asked if anyone recalled seeing someone walking by the road..and they asked specifically about a bag discarded

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Or he could have a relative near the bridge and just returned to his house. No car. No hitchhiking.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

idk..you have to think about which could have been more dangerous for him.. leaving a vehicle that can be spotted.. or walking a long distance and hitchhiking ..
this was suggested very early in the case when LE asked if anyone recalled seeing someone walking by the road..and they asked specifically about a bag discarded

Almost 5 years later I’m wondering if anyone did see a bag. Of course we wouldn’t know about this until it comes to trial, if that ever happens in our lifetime.
M()()

 

[carbuff]

I don't know about Indiana's law, but most states require evidence of an abduction before an Amber Alert is issued. It can't generally be used for kids who are just lost, or ran away. Some states require a license plate number or vehicle description.

 

[JnRyan]

idk..you have to think about which could have been more dangerous for him.. leaving a vehicle that can be spotted.. or walking a long distance and hitchhiking ..
this was suggested very early in the case when LE asked if anyone recalled seeing someone walking by the road..and they asked specifically about a bag discarded

That bag and someone walking down the road. Mentioned once very early on and then it isn't alluded to again. Just like that vehicle at the CPS building - mentioned in April PC and press release the next day and then never again. It has the appearance of a gamble by LE.