Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #144

[Prime8]

They don't normally put periods between each letter, tho. The person texting was older, I suspect.

The transcript isn't a transcript of the text, it's a transcript of the interview. The transcript also puts periods in DNA, which people do not usually do in casual conversation.

 

[Schatz]

The transcript isn't a transcript of the text, it's a transcript of the interview. The transcript also puts periods in DNA, which people do not usually do in casual conversation.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. That makes sense.

 

[photographer4]

Possible? Of course. But the police in the interview transcript say Libby was "completely enthralled" by the AS account so I personally can't see that being because she wanted to catch him out.

True.

 

[LeBlack]

So what kind of seizures is he supposed to have anyhow? I know there are many kinds:
EG: absent / petit mal, you don't hit the floor. It is a brief moment of being unaware of what is going on around you during which your eye lids may flutter while you stare blankly. You can actually outgrow these usually by adulthood, earlier if you're medicated young enough for them.

Grand mal: the drop to the floor and shake ones....

But what about other kinds? Like the ones where you loose muscle tone and may not hit the floor, but your head may droop? Or the one where you can be walking across the street, or shuffling cards and keep doing what you're doing whilst completely out of it? I forget which one this is....

Here is a link to help you learn more about the various types and things that can happen during a seizure: Types of Seizures

So what kind does KAK claim to suffer from and what medications is / was he on at the time for them? Was he taking them consistently?

Unfortunately this wasn't answered in the 194 page interview

 

[LeBlack]

Would you not have to submit health records to get a Nevada gambling employee license?

He admitted that was a lie

 

[sandy_80]

I really think people are reading too much into this part and a lot of people seem to be misrepresenting what the transcript actually says. The transcripts say (which could be different than the actual conversation) "'did you hear what happened to Liberty'. And Anthony Shots responded, 'O.M.G. what happened'." Note that LE stated the friend said "what happened" and AS responds "what happened", he's just parroting what the friend said. The "OMG" really isn't a big deal, especially to young people, they throw that out left and right.

this whole panorama is about ppl reading too much ...
they will tell you this and thats it ..its done
eventually when it leads to another dead end ..we will have other thats it moment

 

[Love Never Fails]

I’ve been on another thread fir the past year and come here infrequently but I live here in Indiana and haven’t heard of an arrest for Abbey and Libby. Has there been one? Who is KAK? Just another suspect?

I am sorry for interrupting the thread but I was wondering if an arrest was made. Thanks for the information.

It’s been too long for justice not to come for Abbey and Libby.

 

[sunshineray]

this whole panorama is about ppl reading too much ...
they will tell you this and thats it ..its done
eventually when it leads to another dead end ..we will have other thats it moment

IMHO, this is no dead end. This is what happened. Libby was catfished by a predator. A naive young girl and her friend were manipulated and set up to die by evil. What anthony_shots account said and the way it was said is classic grooming and trapping. How "he" reacted to his own crime, in cover-up, is another part of the stack.

LE not only discover Libby and Abby's situation but the biggest investigation into child *advertiser censored* (and God knows likely more crimes) in Indiana state's history.

There's no dead end. AJMO

 

[crussell821]

IMHO, this is no dead end. This is what happened. Libby was catfished by a predator. A naive young girl and her friend were manipulated and set up to die by evil. What anthony_shots account said and the way it was said is classic grooming and trapping. How "he" reacted to his own crime, in cover-up, is another part of the stack.

LE not only discover Libby and Abby's situation but the biggest investigation into child *advertiser censored* (and God knows likely more crimes) in Indiana state's history.

There's no dead end. AJMO

If this isn’t all somehow involved in some way….I will eat my hat. MOO

 

[sandy_80]

IMHO, this is no dead end. This is what happened. Libby was catfished by a predator. A naive young girl and her friend were manipulated and set up to die by evil. What anthony_shots account said and the way it was said is classic grooming and trapping. How "he" reacted to his own crime, in cover-up, is another part of the stack.

LE not only discover Libby and Abby's situation but the biggest investigation into child *advertiser censored* (and God knows likely more crimes) in Indiana state's history.

There's no dead end. AJMO

that not how crimes are solved..they show you something on SM and think bingo it all falls into place ...
there are ppl who went to prison and were cleared decades later because of DNA...ITS NOT A PUZZLE that we fit the right pieces in..
if i asked you to explain how this crime happened .. you wouldn't have a reasonable answer..
SO WHO IS bg
SOME ARE LIKE ITS KAK...this moron who is about double the size of BG ..a moron who left his incriminating digital trace and after that went and murdered them and left the phone.. but was still so daft and experienced he took all other precautions !! how can anyone see this idiot as anything but what he is
..no its his dad...again zero physical match ..and we dont know anything else
its been two years since that interview..and they must have their DNA BY NOW right ?
the whole secret meeting still makes zero sense no matter who says what..and I ll be very happy if its wrong and its not a random murder but still off the radar BG

 

[sunshineray]

that not how crimes are solved..they show you something on SM and think bingo it all falls into place ...
there are ppl who went to prison and were cleared decades later because of DNA...ITS NOT A PUZZLE that we fit the right pieces in..
if i asked you to explain how this crime happened .. you wouldn't have a reasonable answer..
SO WHO IS bg
SOME ARE LIKE ITS KAK...this moron who is about double the size of BG ..a moron who left his incriminating digital trace and after that went and murdered them and left the phone.. but was still so daft and experienced he took all other precautions !! how can anyone see this idiot as anything but what he is
..no its his dad...again zero physical match ..and we dont know anything else
its been two years since that interview..and they must have their DNA BY NOW right ?
the whole secret meeting still makes zero sense no matter who says what..and I ll be very happy if its wrong and its not a random murder but still off the radar BG

I doubt investigators said bingo about any if it without looking at it from all angles. Catfishing is a social media event. That's why LE employs much technology and technicians to thoroughly investigate. What a catfishing predator says to their prey on social media is evidence of crime. Like those detectives said to KAK (paraphrasing)...it all stacks up...and up. AJMO

Very hard to tell from the graininess of video just what BG looks like or make any snap judgements. BG could still be the unknown second or even third predator. It will be the entirety of the evidence that convicts who's responsible. I'm leaning that DNA is not going to have a significant role in any Delphi murders prosecution, JMO.

 

[Shamrock1]

I hadn’t thought of a signature like this. It’s possible but I imagine law enforcement would want a person of interest to bite into a dental mould and it would be possible forensically to compare the bite mark on victim’s remains with the shape of an individual’s teeth. The Medical Examiner would likely be able to give an estimate of how long a bite mark was present on a victim’s remains.

It would be challenging to protest and convince people of your innocence if your teeth matched the bite mark on a victim’s remains and the Medical Examiner said the bite could possibly have occurred approximately when the murders tragically happened. If they had this kind of very strong evidence which linked the bite mark to a known individual an arrest would likely have been made already. I don’t know how challenging it would be or not legally to obtain a mould of an individual’s teeth who wasn’t under arrest yet in Indiana.

I’m reading about the information that is being revealed from the podcast and the redacted evidence that has been posted and discussed here with interest. It is difficult to try and not get your hopes up that law enforcement is closing in on B.G and anyone else who may be linked to the murders. I really hope and pray for the girls and their loved ones that an arrest(s) will be made in the not too distant future. It will be very interesting to see what happens with the investigation in the upcoming months.

Bite mark evidence is extremely controversial, even among forensic odontologists. There have been multiple efforts to outright ban it as a “junk science” in recent years.

“The most likely candidate to next join those fields and techniques in the cemetery of terminated forensic sciences is forensic odontology—the comparison of suspected bite marks (usually found in the flesh of crime victims) and the dentition of suspects.” Forensic bitemark identification: weak foundations, exaggerated claims

Texas 1st state to recommend court ban on bite mark evidence - attempt to ban on TX

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-a-study-that-discredits-bite-mark-evidence/ - good overview

Why Bite Mark Evidence Should Never Be Used in Criminal Trials - examples of wrongful convictions from Innocence Project.

“The Tooth Fairy Science of Bite Mark Comparisons” from McGill University’s Office of Society and Science: The Tooth Fairy Science of Bite Mark Comparisons

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

Bite mark evidence is extremely controversial, even among forensic odontologists. There have been multiple efforts to outright ban it as a “junk science” in recent years.

“The most likely candidate to next join those fields and techniques in the cemetery of terminated forensic sciences is forensic odontology—the comparison of suspected bite marks (usually found in the flesh of crime victims) and the dentition of suspects.” Forensic bitemark identification: weak foundations, exaggerated claims

Texas 1st state to recommend court ban on bite mark evidence - attempt to ban on TX

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-a-study-that-discredits-bite-mark-evidence/ - good overview

Why Bite Mark Evidence Should Never Be Used in Criminal Trials - examples of wrongful convictions from Innocence Project.

“The Tooth Fairy Science of Bite Mark Comparisons” from McGill University’s Office of Society and Science: The Tooth Fairy Science of Bite Mark Comparisons

Hopefully the 'lie detector' will be soon to be terminated, also.

 

[Yemelyan]

Hopefully the 'lie detector' will be soon to be terminated, also.

Probably not going to happen IMO. LE knows it isn't an accurate measure of deception, but that's not its real purpose anyway.

 

[AC4RD]

Would you not have to submit health records to get a Nevada gambling employee license?

I was curious, and looked. License registration training is at Nevada Gaming Control Board : Online Gaming Employee Registration Training Powerpoint From my own brief look, they appear to require fingerprints, and a criminal background check, along with work history and child-support status. I didn't notice anything about medical history or authorization to see medical history. Interesting.

This is just MHO and strictly an uninformed guess on my part, but I'd be very surprised if KAK actually did the registration requirements and became licensed as a gaming employee. Or held any other significant wage-earning position of responsibility--just MHO, of course.

 

[TL4S]

I was curious, and looked. License registration training is at Nevada Gaming Control Board : Online Gaming Employee Registration Training Powerpoint From my own brief look, they appear to require fingerprints, and a criminal background check, along with work history and child-support status. I didn't notice anything about medical history or authorization to see medical history. Interesting.

This is just MHO and strictly an uninformed guess on my part, but I'd be very surprised if KAK actually did the registration requirements and became licensed as a gaming employee. Or held any other significant wage-earning position of responsibility--just MHO, of course.

In the interview, I really get the feeling the only job he had was selling weed. Maybe some under-the-table bounty hunter type stuff (or maybe not). The guy just couldn't live up to the person he so badly wanted to be.

 

[AC4RD]

KAK ... Maybe, this friend introduced him to the world of music/sleek cars/gambling/internet/money.

Just my own sour crabapple-and-vinegar opinion, but my guess is that KAK's *only* exposure to "sleek cars, gambling, and money," is on television and in his fantasy life--the fantasy life in which he has important jobs and earns good money and is respected. What little I can see of his real life is that of a slug, sleeping on friends' couches, no job, no car, no prospects of a decent job, no future any better than his current bleak sad life. His only exposure to gambling is probably lottery tickets, if Indiana has a lottery.

And just for the permanent record, I know a handful of professional musicians and other artists, and they don't live in a glamorous world of luxury--the ones who actually make a living as musicians or actors mostly work as hard as farmhands and live very modest lives. ETA: the musicians who live lives of luxury and plenty are IMO a very small part of the total.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

In the interview, I really get the feeling the only job he had was selling weed. Maybe sine under- the- table bounty hunter type stuff (or maybe not). The guy just couldn't live up to the person he so badly wanted to be.

Like most weed-obsessed folks.

 

[DeDee]

In the interview, I really get the feeling the only job he had was selling weed. Maybe sine under- the- table bounty hunter type stuff (or maybe not). The guy just couldn't live up to the person he so badly wanted to be.

RBBM

Precisely this! I do believe his father is a very harsh, mean-mistreater who abused his son on the daily. Thereby, making KAK the victim of emotional, verbal and possibly physical assaults. Words matter. Words can kill, by causing the victim to suffer from a lack of self-confidence and damaging their sense of self-worth, but the toll of the abuse takes longer to kill than if using a bullet. Words can steal a person's happiness and sense of peace in their surroundings. Abusive language can lead to confusing, clouded thinking, thereby, causing error in judgments.

KAK's disgusting addiction to CP, along with his propensity to be obese, demonstrate he had out of control behaviors.

I will not be surprised to find that his father involved his son in these horrific murders with the idea originating with him. Why didn't his father get KAK a job with Chrysler as was family tradition? Perhaps he didn't care if KAK was successful or not. Maybe he liked having his son being a loser so he could further control him.

No doubt in my mind that KAK detested the fact that he had to live within his father's home. Perhaps it caused pent up frustrations that bled over into wanting to harm someone just as he was being harmed.

We know KAK had a gun. Did he go there with intentions to kill? If not, then why carry a firearm? "It's about control to you."

We know a gun was cocked on approach to these two precious girls at MHB. He was in contact with L that fateful morning so he/they had plenty of time to set up a potential CS. What unnerves me is that A_S continued to send messages to L's phone, after the crime, as if in an attempt to throw off LE. Maybe it worked, hence, the reason LEO didn't pursue him further after the first SW was served in Peru in 2017.

MOO
.

 

[mekeritrig]

We know a gun was cocked on approach to these two precious girls at MHB.

We don't actually know that. What you are referring to is a rumor spread by Gray Hughes that has never been confirmed by LE.