Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #145

[Spartygirl]

Copying my own post because me mind goes in circles around this case. Maybe everyone feels the same way.

So, it is hard to formulate it in such a way that my idea is clear, and at the same time, to be e
maximally respectful of the dead. If anyone feels I am less than such, please consider that in my perception, the killed girls are just the victims. I don't know the extent to what the murderer did post mortem, but making a guess, he probably was not more respectful of the girls in their deaths than in lives. MOO.

Now from the article I posted, it appears that very many behaviors involving bodies fall under necrophilia. It does not need to be sexual. Ultimately, except for few exceptions, it is more about the wish to find extremely passive partner than anything else.

Given this, and the fact that 57% of people with this behaviors find jobs in certain areas, the article mentions morticians, pathologists, of course...it is hard not to remember the proximity of the graveyard to the CS.

Could it be so that someone, unhappy for n-th time with his controlling GF/wife, comes to the graveyard, subconsciously looking for such...passive subject? Or maybe it is a graveyard worker - there can be many, the diggers, the people establishing monuments, simply someone taking care of old graves. (Remember how we spoke about someone visiting a relative whose anniversary was on 2/13? That was just one of many reasons to visit the graveyard). And then the person sees the girls, and makes the plan very fast.

It is just MOO. (Honestly, I think KAK has been extracted to the extreme. Not so, TK of course, but we'll see where it leads us).

However, could the entry place for the murderer be the gravesite? For his own reasons?

I do believe, IMO, BG left through the cemetery.

The cemetery care taker was questioned by police and LE took his phone also.

"The sheriff's department says the photos released Wednesday have brought in about 200 tips. They are checking every one of them. Police want to talk to the man because he was on the trail about the same time as the victims.

"I think we feel confident that we are going to get this guy or guys that were involved in this. I think that we feel really confident its going to happen sooner rather than later," Riley said.

James Lucas got a call from police this morning.

"It was scary. I never expected (it)," Lucas said.

He doesn't think he looks like the man on the bridge, but Lucas says he was among the hundreds of volunteers who searched for the girls.

"They looked at my phone. I don't know what all they did with it," Lucas said."

Police set up new number for Delphi murder tips | wthr.com

 

[Charlot123]

Whether he had actual seizures or not, what if 'seizures' is code for fresh photos?

Advertising. In plain sight.

JMO

No. If he has seizures, they are not the code for photos. I think they might have been scary, and plus, he does seem to have too many real-life friends, so he posts it online.

 

[Charlot123]

I really think if this was a necrophilliac, the bodies would have been more hidden so that the killer could return again and again. mOO

Hard to tell. Depending on the purpose. If the killer was random, I believe he has elements of being a necrophile, and probably, he gets his high off what is posted about the case in media and maybe, even discussions.

If the girls were targeted, anything goes. But in contrast to most, I do think he is smart, and a planner.

It would be hard to imagine that he did not take photos, though, but not with digital equipment. Perhaps, some old film camera?

 

[hafom8840]

Hard to tell. Depending on the purpose. If the killer was random, I believe he has elements of being a necrophile, and probably, he gets his high off what is posted about the case in media and maybe, even discussions.

If the girls were targeted, anything goes. But in contrast to most, I do think he is smart, and a planner.

It would be hard to imagine that he did not take photos, though, but not with digital equipment. Perhaps, some old film camera?

I surmise Polaroids assuming BG is smart. Some sickos have tried getting film developed (take a grand guess of what), and then people in the store noticed and called 911 and they got arrested.

 

[Charlot123]

I surmise Polaroids assuming BG is smart. Some sickos have tried getting film developed (take a grand guess of what), and then people in the store noticed and called 911 and they got arrested.

or simply a vintage camera. One could develop himself. Just looked, there are tons of black and white film development kits on Amazon.

 

[carbuff]

or simply a vintage camera. One could develop himself. Just looked, there are tons of black and white film development kits on Amazon.

It's really easy. I've done it, though not for many years. Recently I've seen a revival of people doing their own developing for artistic reasons. And it does seem like the kind of thing somebody who was into violent, sexual art might be interested in.

 

[AC4RD]

It's really easy. I've done it, though not for many years. Recently I've seen a revival of people doing their own developing for artistic reasons. And it does seem like the kind of thing somebody who was into violent, sexual art might be interested in.

Well, some of the film shooters are just harmless disciples of Saint Ansel Adams and the Blessed Edward Weston of Carmel. Some of us elderly hippies never stopped shooting film, and a good number of new young artists are finding the rewards of TMX and the Zone System. B&W is easy-peasy at home and even color film (negative and slide) isn't difficult.

That said, if I were a slavering psychotic killer with a yen for documentation, I can't imagine any reason why digital wouldn't be vastly better. Charlot123, can you explain? If you're thinking that digital photos have identifying metadata, that appears to be relatively easy to remove, though I've never tried removing ALL metadata from digital photos.

 

[loveplace]

That said, if I were a slavering psychotic killer with a yen for documentation, I can't imagine any reason why digital wouldn't be vastly better. Charlot123, can you explain? If you're thinking that digital photos have identifying metadata, that appears to be relatively easy to remove, though I've never tried removing ALL metadata from digital photos.

I'm a professional photographer and it is crazy easy to remove all metadata from digital images. One click easy. It is just my opinion but I would assume most CSAM being created is digital (even when it is kept private to one sick individual rather than being shared by many of them) because anyone can stumble upon your hidden polaroids but there are dozens of way to encrypt a digital file and protect it from casual discovery by someone who has already found your hiding place. Also it makes it supremely sharable when that is their goal. Granted none of this protects it from LE when they really dig in with digital forensics but I still think digital would be the preferred medium.

 

[Trebor5591]

I surmise Polaroids assuming BG is smart. Some sickos have tried getting film developed (take a grand guess of what), and then people in the store noticed and called 911 and they got arrested.

If BG is indeed "smart" then there is no way he would take photos of the murderer girls! IMO, to do so would be guarantee his eventual arrest and execution.

 

[minazoe]

If BG is indeed "smart" then there is no way he would take photos of the murderer girls! IMO, to do so would be guarantee his eventual arrest and execution.

I don't really think this guy thinks he will be caught..he thinks he's too smart..believe me..while it won't make too much difference to the case as a detail or part of a discovery, photos might actually be the motive as they would be a high value asset, in which case this would be very important in prosecuting all the interested parties who would trade in this kind of filth. mOO

 

[Ozoner]

Few details have been shared, but this killing occurred near a walking trail.
Hunt for killer underway after 10-year-old girl found dead near walking trail

 

[Charlot123]

Well, some of the film shooters are just harmless disciples of Saint Ansel Adams and the Blessed Edward Weston of Carmel. Some of us elderly hippies never stopped shooting film, and a good number of new young artists are finding the rewards of TMX and the Zone System. B&W is easy-peasy at home and even color film (negative and slide) isn't difficult.

That said, if I were a slavering psychotic killer with a yen for documentation, I can't imagine any reason why digital wouldn't be vastly better. Charlot123, can you explain? If you're thinking that digital photos have identifying metadata, that appears to be relatively easy to remove, though I've never tried removing ALL metadata from digital photos.

I might not know the details, but as far as I remember, any digital camera has a memory card. I always assumed that digital storage devices, theoretically, can be viewable. Maybe I am wrong, but logically, even an old scandisk is information storage, in gigabytes. And to view it, you need to transfer it somewhere. I think regular photo might be safer.

 

[Charlot123]

If BG is indeed "smart" then there is no way he would take photos of the murderer girls! IMO, to do so would be guarantee his eventual arrest and execution.

If he is a budding/active SK, he might take photos, or obtain copies somehow (LE should have them, right?). If the murderers go as far as to risk keeping "mementos" from the crime scenes, I suspect, photos might be expected, but of course, if the murderers are not local.

He is smart, but abducting and killing these two girls in the proximity of the drive, the graveyard, the bridge was terribly risky. So I assume, a planned risk-taker.

 

[JnRyan]

If he is a budding/active SK, he might take photos, or obtain copies somehow (LE should have them, right?). If the murderers go as far as to risk keeping "mementos" from the crime scenes, I suspect, photos might be expected, but of course, if the murderers are not local.

He is smart, but abducting and killing these two girls in the proximity of the drive, the graveyard, the bridge was terribly risky. So I assume, a planned risk-taker.

I would like to read a criminal profile of this killer. Sometimes I think he is smart. While he did abduct and kill during the daylight on a public, he did attempt to mitigate his risk. That is, instead of confronting them elsewhere on the trail he did it at the end of bridge where he has visibility of any potential third party. I do wonder if he walked the private drive 1-3 hours earlier and might have determined if anyone was at home the end of it. He has obviously left no OBVIOUS DNA or fingerprints at the scene. Obvious, in that LE is not sure if they have his DNA.

Then again at other times I simply believe it was all pure dumb luck on his part. Someone could have come up the drive. He murdered them on RL's property and he could have been home. Then there is getting caught on video and audio and still not identified. That last part reminds me of the guy who parks Jennifer Kesse's car at a nearby apartment complex and when caught on CCTV his face is hidden in all of the photos - pure luck.

 

[Skigirl]

I would like to read a criminal profile of this killer. Sometimes I think he is smart. While he did abduct and kill during the daylight on a public, he did attempt to mitigate his risk. That is, instead of confronting them elsewhere on the trail he did it at the end of bridge where he has visibility of any potential third party. I do wonder if he walked the private drive 1-3 hours earlier and might have determined if anyone was at home the end of it. He has obviously left no OBVIOUS DNA or fingerprints at the scene. Obvious, in that LE is not sure if they have his DNA.

Then again at other times I simply believe it was all pure dumb luck on his part. Someone could have come up the drive. He murdered them on RL's property and he could have been home. Then there is getting caught on video and audio and still not identified. That last part reminds me of the guy who parks Jennifer Kesse's car at a nearby apartment complex and when caught on CCTV his face is hidden in all of the photos - pure luck.

I come down on the "lucky" side of the scale. If you want to commit a crime, there's a lot running in your favor, especially when you are an adult and your intended victim is a child. Just because every single thing he did wasn't totally moronic doesn't mean he's of average or above-average intelligence.

 

[AC4RD]

... Sometimes I think he is smart. While he did abduct and kill during the daylight on a public, he did attempt to mitigate his risk. That is, instead of confronting them elsewhere on the trail he did it at the end of bridge where he has visibility of any potential third party. I do wonder if he walked the private drive 1-3 hours earlier and might have determined if anyone was at home the end of it. He has obviously left no OBVIOUS DNA or fingerprints at the scene. Obvious, in that LE is not sure if they have his DNA.

Then again at other times I simply believe it was all pure dumb luck on his part. Someone could have come up the drive. He murdered them on RL's property and he could have been home. Then there is getting caught on video and audio and still not identified. That last part reminds me of the guy who parks Jennifer Kesse's car at a nearby apartment complex and when caught on CCTV his face is hidden in all of the photos - pure luck.

So true--the murderer(s) might be criminal masterminds, or might be lucky morons--I'd guess it's some combination of forethought and luck, but you're right, we have no way of knowing that right now.

I think you're right about the scouting trip. Remember DWW (dog-walking woman), who saw a mysterious person at the far end of the bridge around mid-day? My own guess is that BG scouted from the trailhead to the far end of the bridge. DWW makes me think it was at least a couple of hours before the murders.

In my guess, BG watches DWW leave; then he strolls from the south end to the trailhead (remember the theory that the girls saw him near the trailhead and spoke?) Now he knows there is nobody behind him, on the bridge and to the south of it. He then waits/lurks somewhere on the trail. Now the girls appear on the trail and cross the bridge. He gives them a few minutes, then follows them across the bridge. Because he has been scouting and monitoring, he knows there is nobody anywhere in the area, and there is no easy escape from that end, either. The girls are alone and vulnerable. Tragedy ensues.

This sounds likely to me (MOO). Whether the girls (or just libby) were previously targeted, or if they were random targets of opportunity, isn't clear but it could be either, in this scenario. Planning plus luck? As the man said, "One day, we'll know."

 

[hafom8840]

If BG is indeed "smart" then there is no way he would take photos of the murderer girls! IMO, to do so would be guarantee his eventual arrest and execution.

Independent of intelligence, some of these deranged individuals are willing to take strong risks incriminating themselves by photographing their crimes for memorabilia. I would be surprised if BG fits the "smart, cunning, although very arrogant" personality like Ted Bundy though.

 

[LeBlack]

DBM - should have kept reading

 

[FrostedGlass]

Independent of intelligence, some of these deranged individuals are willing to take strong risks incriminating themselves by photographing their crimes for memorabilia. I would be surprised if BG fits the "smart, cunning, although very arrogant" personality like Ted Bundy though.

"Deranged individuals" = Luka Magnotta.
His crime was so deranged that many thought his video was staged. If not for his kitten video, who knows how long it would have taken to catch him.

 

[LeBlack]

If he is a budding/active SK, he might take photos, or obtain copies somehow (LE should have them, right?). If the murderers go as far as to risk keeping "mementos" from the crime scenes, I suspect, photos might be expected, but of course, if the murderers are not local.

He is smart, but abducting and killing these two girls in the proximity of the drive, the graveyard, the bridge was terribly risky. So I assume, a planned risk-taker.

Dopamine