Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

[Ozoner]

Supposedly KAK was trying to negotiate a deal back in December but he wanted all his child p*rn charges dropped for the information and the prosecution said “no”, and that was that.
A reporter guest on the “The Murder Sheet“ podcast a few weeks back said her sources told her KAK
My deal would be 1) tell us absolutely everything you know about the Delphi murders. Name names. This information must lead to an arrest and conviction. You must testify in court if necessary. 2) Your current charges will be satisfied on time served plus two years 3) you must register as a sex offender 4) you must report to a parole officer once a year for the rest of your life 5) if you are caught involved in child p*rn in anyway you will serve an additionAl 15 years in prison.

You're making a big assumption here that KAK actually knows something. He may suspect someone, possibly TK, but he might not actually know or have proof. He may not even be correct. Another issue is that he's a pathological liar; he's proved that time and again. Any defense attorney could rip him to shreds if he testified for the prosecution. He has no credibility, so his testimony probably won't get anybody convicted.

I am still unsure whether BG is anyone who has been mentioned in the press or social media. Neither KAK nor TK could possibly be BG unless law enforcement got BG's height and weight very wrong. If that's what happened, then that error could provide reasonable doubt for a jury. TK makes the most sense as a suspect to me aside from the height and weight issues.

 

[HistoryNut]

I hope you are right!

Supposedly KAK was trying to negotiate a deal back in December but he wanted all his child p*rn charges dropped for the information and the prosecution said “no”, and that was that.
A reporter guest on the “The Murder Sheet“ podcast a few weeks back said her sources told her KAK is the key.
My question to everybody is….what do you think a fair deal would be for KAK to get him to talk?
I think that’s a tough question. If he truly is the key to solving Delphi he is holding a handful of aces, drawing from a deck full of aces. He holds all the cards. Unless LE can find the connections and evidence by themselves, KAK is their only hope.
Is justice for the Delphi murders more important than justice for exploited children and the community?
My deal would be 1) tell us absolutely everything you know about the Delphi murders. Name names. This information must lead to an arrest and conviction. You must testify in court if necessary. 2) Your current charges will be satisfied on time served plus two years 3) you must register as a sex offender 4) you must report to a parole officer once a year for the rest of your life 5) if you are caught involved in child p*rn in anyway you will serve an additionAl 15 years in prison.
There is no fair here, in my opinion.
I’d love to hear what deals y’all would make.

I really don't know what kind of sentence he should receive if he makes a plea deal. At a minimum, he was involved in CSAM which is a horrible crime. I do think he should be made to share all information and also agree to testify in court. I know that plea deals were given to two of the Pike County, Ohio murderers of the Rhoden family, which surprised me because LE and the FBI seemed to have enough evidence to convict them.

 

[TL4S]

I hope you are right!

Supposedly KAK was trying to negotiate a deal back in December but he wanted all his child p*rn charges dropped for the information and the prosecuIt'vtion said “no”, and that was that.
A reporter guest on the “The Murder Sheet“ podcast a few weeks back said her sources told her KAK is the key.
My question to everybody is….what do you think a fair deal would be for KAK to get him to talk?
I think that’s a tough question. If he truly is the key to solving Delphi he is holding a handful of aces, drawing from a deck full of aces. He holds all the cards. Unless LE can find the connections and evidence by themselves, KAK is their only hope.
Is justice for the Delphi murders more important than justice for exploited children and the community?
My deal would be 1) tell us absolutely everything you know about the Delphi murders. Name names. This information must lead to an arrest and conviction. You must testify in court if necessary. 2) Your current charges will be satisfied on time served plus two years 3) you must register as a sex offender 4) you must report to a parole officer once a year for the rest of your life 5) if you are caught involved in child p*rn in anyway you will serve an additionAl 15 years in prison.
There is no fair here, in my opinion.
I’d love to hear what deals y’all would make.

I'm very curious about that MS podcast with the journalist. Surprisingly little has been discussed here about the things she said, which if true, were pretty straightforward about KAK being key AND another user communicating as a_shots. She also had this information for awhile before any of the a_shots or KAK information was out to the public.

As far as a deal for KAK goes, my guess is it would probably depend drastically on what evidence LE has, who is their prime suspect, and whether or not the murders were directly connected to the CSAM investigation, etc. It would also matter how closely linked KAK is to the murders.

If I believe even some of what LE said in that 2020 KAK interview, along with what the journalist said, and put that together with the a_shots ask and other KAK related details (fb lying, Peru home searches, etc), then what I see is somebody with access to the a_shots account likely murdering L and A, then one week later, meeting up with the Galveston girl (ski mask incident), with who knows what intentions. If it is the same person, this could signal a serial situation, where more victims could still be yet unknown. Not only that, but if information about the murders was being shared, I think LE would want a handle on all of that before making any kind of announcement that could lead back to anyone specifically involved. They don't want the mice to scatter. And, maybe KAK's devices, some of which probably had data which took time to retrieve, were just the beginning.

I've said it before, but I wonder if the change in direction with the two sketches, the targeted PCs, the seemingly confusing wording, LE's lying about a SM connection, the FBI lying about the Ks involvement, the delay in asking about a_shots, and the relative silence is all due to the fact that they didn't want the CSAM information out there while they were waist-deep into the investigation. I don't think LE was turning a blind eye to KAK or any of his possible cohorts ever. I think the entire thing has been orchestrated to keep specific information quiet while they tried to fit all the pieces together, maybe for a multitude of crimes. And I think they are (or were) purposefully putting the pressure on KAK, deal or not.

I'm cautiously optimistic and appreciate they need a rock solid case to take to court. Hopefully we'll see that day.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

You're making a big assumption here that KAK actually knows something. He may suspect someone, possibly TK, but he might not actually know or have proof. He may not even be correct. Another issue is that he's a pathological liar; he's proved that time and again. Any defense attorney could rip him to shreds if he testified for the prosecution. He has no credibility, so his testimony probably won't get anybody convicted.

I am still unsure whether BG is anyone who has been mentioned in the press or social media. Neither KAK nor TK could possibly be BG unless law enforcement got BG's height and weight very wrong. If that's what happened, then that error could provide reasonable doubt for a jury. TK makes the most sense as a suspect to me aside from the height and weight issues.

Trust me, I assume nothing about KAK knowing anything, but was commenting on the idea others had put out that KAK is currently trying to cut a deal for Delphi info before his trial.
Personally I feel that though KAK may be the key, LE is going to have to solve this case on their own. They’ve had KAK locked up for two years. That well is dry.

 

[Schatz]

Ok, I wrote out the following and then paused to do some digging:

You know, whomever showed up at a girl’s house with a ski mask on in broad daylight a week after the murders when LE agencies, including the FBI, were actively scouring the area/all leads is insanely brazen.

I’ve listened to the MS podcast episodes about TK (all but the most recent). My hang up with him is that it sounds like he was proud of his job and had been there for some time. Something about this makes me question if he would risk a very decent pension (which, he probably isn’t far off from qualifying for) not only by getting involved in murder but then *also taking an extreme risk by targeting a minor female again a week later* - this last point seems sticky to me. Unless the perp was trying to scare her into silence, which is possible. But it still seems VERY risky given the LE presence in the immediate area at the time.

Of course in the back of my head I was thinking “a sadistic killer probably doesn’t think or behave like you do, Schatz.” So then I went down a rabbit hole that ultimately led me to this article from 2010. I hope this is allowed - I don’t see how it’s not related. I actually suspect this has already been discussed somewhere on these threads years before I started paying close attention to the case, but just in case not (and also so someone can tell me where we landed on how this ties in):

Mother warns of abduction attempt

A mother whose 9-year-old daughter was nearly abducted by a masked man in Young America last week has taken the matter of catching the culprit into her own hands.

www.pharostribune.com

 

[Schatz]

Ok, I wrote out the following and then paused to do some digging:

You know, whomever showed up at a girl’s house with a ski mask on in broad daylight a week after the murders when LE agencies, including the FBI, were actively scouring the area/all leads is insanely brazen.

I’ve listened to the MS podcast episodes about TK (all but the most recent). My hang up with him is that it sounds like he was proud of his job and had been there for some time. Something about this makes me question if he would risk a very decent pension (which, he probably isn’t far off from qualifying for) not only by getting involved in murder but then *also taking an extreme risk by targeting a minor female again a week later* - this last point seems sticky to me. Unless the perp was trying to scare her into silence, which is possible. But it still seems VERY risky given the LE presence in the immediate area at the time.

Of course in the back of my head I was thinking “a sadistic killer probably doesn’t think or behave like you do, Schatz.” So then I went down a rabbit hole that ultimately led me to this article from 2010. I hope this is allowed - I don’t see how it’s not related. I actually suspect this has already been discussed somewhere on these threads years before I started paying close attention to the case, but just in case not (and also so someone can tell me where we landed on how this ties in):

Mother warns of abduction attempt

A mother whose 9-year-old daughter was nearly abducted by a masked man in Young America last week has taken the matter of catching the culprit into her own hands.

www.pharostribune.com

Also, hoo boy, there are a couple of left hooks at the end of the article about other incidents.

 

[Yemelyan]

Also, hoo boy, there are a couple of left hooks at the end of the article about other incidents.

Do you mean the last paragraph about a 4 year old victim in Logansport? They did arrest and convict a 22 year old man named William Wilson of that crime so that's not related to the Delphi murders at least. There is a Websleuths thread here about it: GUILTY - IN - Four year-old girl beaten, choked and raped

He pled guilty in 2012.

 

[TL4S]

You know, whomever showed up at a girl’s house with a ski mask on in broad daylight a week after the murders when LE agencies, including the FBI, were actively scouring the area/all leads is insanely brazen.

I’ve listened to the MS podcast episodes about TK (all but the most recent). My hang up with him is that it sounds like he was proud of his job and had been there for some time. Something about this makes me question if he would risk a very decent pension (which, he probably isn’t far off from qualifying for) not only by getting involved in murder but then *also taking an extreme risk by targeting a minor female again a week later* - this last point seems sticky to me. Unless the perp was trying to scare her into silence, which is possible. But it still seems VERY risky given the LE presence in the immediate area at the time.

Of course in the back of my head I was thinking “a sadistic killer probably doesn’t think or behave like you do, Schatz.” So then I went down a rabbit hole that ultimately led me to this article from 2010. I hope this is allowed - I don’t see how it’s not related. I actually suspect this has already been discussed somewhere on these threads years before I started paying close attention to the case, but just in case not (and also so someone can tell me where we landed on how this ties in):

Mother warns of abduction attempt

A mother whose 9-year-old daughter was nearly abducted by a masked man in Young America last week has taken the matter of catching the culprit into her own hands.

www.pharostribune.com

That's pretty disturbing. The Ks lived in Young America, iirc, but I don't know what years.

The whole ski mask incident in Galveston (where the Ks also used to live) feels very important to me. First of all, it ties a_shots to a girl who KAK admits to knowing irl, and whose family he doesn't outright deny looking up on FB the day before. He even admits at one point that he understands why it all looks suspicious on him since he knew her and her family. Another Monday afternoon creeper spotted after young girls communicating with a_shots.

I can't get past it. I wonder what are the odds that BG had a black ski mask with him, or that someone with a ski mask could have been lurking around L's house at some point?

 

[Megnut]

Ok, I wrote out the following and then paused to do some digging:

You know, whomever showed up at a girl’s house with a ski mask on in broad daylight a week after the murders when LE agencies, including the FBI, were actively scouring the area/all leads is insanely brazen.

I’ve listened to the MS podcast episodes about TK (all but the most recent). My hang up with him is that it sounds like he was proud of his job and had been there for some time. Something about this makes me question if he would risk a very decent pension (which, he probably isn’t far off from qualifying for) not only by getting involved in murder but then *also taking an extreme risk by targeting a minor female again a week later* - this last point seems sticky to me. Unless the perp was trying to scare her into silence, which is possible. But it still seems VERY risky given the LE presence in the immediate area at the time.

Of course in the back of my head I was thinking “a sadistic killer probably doesn’t think or behave like you do, Schatz.” So then I went down a rabbit hole that ultimately led me to this article from 2010. I hope this is allowed - I don’t see how it’s not related. I actually suspect this has already been discussed somewhere on these threads years before I started paying close attention to the case, but just in case not (and also so someone can tell me where we landed on how this ties in):

Mother warns of abduction attempt

A mother whose 9-year-old daughter was nearly abducted by a masked man in Young America last week has taken the matter of catching the culprit into her own hands.

www.pharostribune.com

If the predator who killed A & L didn't get what he came there for because he was interrupted, impotent or powerless to restrain each in succession, maybe he was rapid for a redo.

Repeat Monday afternoon events seem like a very big clue.

JMO

 

[M. Kay]

<modsnip: Reference post #s are not correct due to thread moderating where numbers change if posts are removed>

So looking back on Robert Ives comments about the crime scene. (I think he would still be a legitimate source here.)

*"plenty of evidence yet none that links an individual
*"they have fingerprints, DNA and footprints
*"uncertain, but originally thought local; not SK
*"plenty of leads, yet no great lead
(and most intriguing to me---)
* "subpoenas for phone data and DNA in 3-hour circles for who was in the area that one time and never returned."
*"not planned" (He's the pro, yet this is difficult for me to accept)

Interview was after the change in sketch which he didn't know reason for. He stated that the scene was "odd, unique, strange, and makes no sense. More to it than simply killed. "

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip: Reference post #s are not correct due to thread moderating where numbers change if posts are removed>

So looking back on Robert Ives comments about the crime scene. (I think he would still be a legitimate source here.)

*"plenty of evidence yet none that links an individual
*"they have fingerprints, DNA and footprints
*"uncertain, but originally thought local; not SK
*"plenty of leads, yet no great lead
(and most intriguing to me---)
* "subpoenas for phone data and DNA in 3-hour circles for who was in the area that one time and never returned."
*"not planned" (He's the pro, yet this is difficult for me to accept)

Interview was after the change in sketch which he didn't know reason for. He stated that the scene was "odd, unique, strange, and makes no sense. More to it than simply killed. "

I always thought that instead of evidence being wiped off clean, it was too dirty. For example, stuff bought in antique stores and virtually dumped at the CS. Too many DNAs, too many fingerprints. The real evidence (DNA, fingerprint) that is "special" and probably pointing at the killer is considered such because of the place where it is found (not on the ground, probably, on one of the girls). But, there is so much around, that it is hard to prove what is what. The rest of "evidence" serves to complicate matters, and the killer did the right thing, picked up dirty things and scattered them around the CS. So, someone bought something in an "old emporium", or at an exhibition, or such. Those things were held by too many. BTW, if it was his personal collection, dust from his house could be evidentiary. Dust differs, dust mites differ. But if it was straight from an antique store, no such luck.

 

[Schatz]

This is hardly damning, but JBC has worn a ski mask during the commission of a crime in the past. Burglary in South Dakota in 2013. See page 18 of the second batch of docs in the following link.

Man accused of Indiana child kidnapping, attempted murder has long South Dakota criminal history

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. (KELO) — A man who spent 15 years in and out of prison in South Dakota is now a potential suspect in the murders of two Indiana girls in 2017.

www.keloland.com

 

[minazoe]

This is hardly damning, but JBC has worn a ski mask during the commission of a crime in the past. Burglary in South Dakota in 2013. See page 18 of the second batch of docs in the following link.

Man accused of Indiana child kidnapping, attempted murder has long South Dakota criminal history

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. (KELO) — A man who spent 15 years in and out of prison in South Dakota is now a potential suspect in the murders of two Indiana girls in 2017.

www.keloland.com

now THAT is a great find!!!!

 

[FromGermany1]

Connected to the Delphi murders or not - how does someone dare to peep on a girl one week after such a crime? I can't believe it. How brazen must the person be?? Did the person want to disrupt the investigation? Was the next step the bomb threat to Indiana Packers?

 

[carbuff]

This is hardly damning, but JBC has worn a ski mask during the commission of a crime in the past. Burglary in South Dakota in 2013. See page 18 of the second batch of docs in the following link.

Man accused of Indiana child kidnapping, attempted murder has long South Dakota criminal history

SIOUX FALLS, S.D. (KELO) — A man who spent 15 years in and out of prison in South Dakota is now a potential suspect in the murders of two Indiana girls in 2017.

www.keloland.com

That's the thing that troubles me about JBC. There are all these little things that are not by themselves damning, but add up to...something scary. And there are very few little things that make me say, "well, that's inconsistent."

 

[AC4RD]

I always thought that instead of evidence being wiped off clean, it was too dirty. For example, stuff bought in antique stores and virtually dumped at the CS. ... ... and the killer did the right thing, picked up dirty things and scattered them around the CS. So, someone bought something in an "old emporium", or at an exhibition, or such.

Is there a source for that? I've heard the rumors about dolls and teddy bears, but I haven't heard of antique sewing machines and china cabinets being found at the crime scene.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I always thought that instead of evidence being wiped off clean, it was too dirty. For example, stuff bought in antique stores and virtually dumped at the CS. Too many DNAs, too many fingerprints. The real evidence (DNA, fingerprint) that is "special" and probably pointing at the killer is considered such because of the place where it is found (not on the ground, probably, on one of the girls). But, there is so much around, that it is hard to prove what is what. The rest of "evidence" serves to complicate matters, and the killer did the right thing, picked up dirty things and scattered them around the CS. So, someone bought something in an "old emporium", or at an exhibition, or such. Those things were held by too many. BTW, if it was his personal collection, dust from his house could be evidentiary. Dust differs, dust mites differ. But if it was straight from an antique store, no such luck.

The following is JMO:

IF, in fact , there were some "odd" belongings left at the crime scene ( it has never been said this is an absolute, only that the crime scene was "odd " or "strange" ) my best guess is that those items were already there. How and why?

It is possible that the area way in the back of RL's property was used , on occasion , as a party spot by local teens and their associates. The artifacts may have been taken from the cemetery and left there for a way to kind of establish a strange/creepy party place. We used to do that type of thing when I was a teen. Not stealing from anywhere, especially not a cemetery- but kind of having a cool, creepy spot to hang out in and scare each other while we partied.

Even more guessing, but honestly , the killer may have been a part of this place on more than one occasion. Maybe he knew about it and knew that RL didn't often head back to that part of his property line.

Those artifacts may have been moved to stage the crime scene or even just to help him live out his fantasies.

People leave all types of things in cemeteries...and those passing through could easily pick up certain items and carry them to their party place over many weeks, months or years.

I don't believe that the killer brought items with him to stage, nor do I believe that he left- went and grabbed things that he thought would add to the scene- nope...I believe he made good use of what was there and what was easily accessible to him.Things that turned him on, and things that he could use in possible photos or video . (Please remember that the RL affidavit does state that they were looking for anything that could be used to photograph or videotape) .


AMOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I really don't know what kind of sentence he should receive if he makes a plea deal. At a minimum, he was involved in CSAM which is a horrible crime. I do think he should be made to share all information and also agree to testify in court. I know that plea deals were given to two of the Pike County, Ohio murderers of the Rhoden family, which surprised me because LE and the FBI seemed to have enough evidence to convict them.

Maybe they would offer life instead of the DP?

JMO

 

[carbuff]

The area down behind the cemetery is the kind of place that around here would get a lot of trash tossed down it. Things the city trash won't pick up, like broken chairs and old dishwashers and old clothes and pretty much anything else you can imagine. Place where you're not visible but it's easy to get to.

 

[Prime8]

Connected to the Delphi murders or not - how does someone dare to peep on a girl one week after such a crime? I can't believe it. How brazen must the person be?? Did the person want to disrupt the investigation? Was the next step the bomb threat to Indiana Packers?

That's an excellent point! I've never thought of it that way but it's such a good question. Someone who's not in their right mind (on a spree, too impulsive, etc.).