Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #147

[StarryStarryNight]

Did you hear that thud? That was the sound of a ream of paper (formerly a transcript) being dropped from the window of the third floor, and hitting the pavement. I was concerned when I read the transcript. Three and a half years into this high profile investigation and this happens...Ugh!! And because this is so high profile, no judge will allow anything that hints of a sixth amendment violation. In my opinion.
Even though KAK admitted contacting LG, and sending her messages even after he knew she was deceased. Information gleaned from that interview, may never be seen by a jury. "Former general counsel at the Marion County prosecutor’s office, Mario Massillamany agrees but added that investigators may not be planning to use the interview in court at all."

Experts Say Police May Have Entered Gray Area During Kline Interview

DELPHI, Ind. — The transcript of a police interview that took place with Kegan Kline in regards to the Delphi murder investigation is raising new questions about whether or not police might have violated Kline’s rights during the interview. Kline has admitted to police that he is the man behind...

www.wibc.com

The fact that LE and prosecutors didn’t lift a finger to stop the KAK/Police interview from being released I think says a lot about how valuable it is to any future prosecution.
KAK was also questioned after their house was raided two weeks after the murders and I’m sure he’s been interviewed many times while he’s been in jail. LE also has the information taken directly KAK’s devices.

 

[Jorgiexo]

Just a random thought and strictly MOO but do we think multiple POI in this case couldve worked together? Maybe KAK and TK were sharing child *advertiser censored* with RL and they agreed they could use RL's property? Or knew RL through nefarious acts and knew his property and thought it was a good spot for this thinking they'd never be caught? I know RL told his family to cover for him BEFORE news of the murders broke but he said it was rough terrain and he was fairly old I cant imagine him being able to do this or at least not alone.. LE said this is the biggest child *advertiser censored* sex ring in Indiana maybe multiple players are involved and covering for each other because they dont want to get in trouble as well? I guess we'll never know the truth about RL

 

[Jorgiexo]

This really piqued my interest. I wonder why 2 articles were taken from ONE girl? You would think maybe one from each girl or just one article period. Did he like one of them better? Did he take them because he left behind DNA on them? If the articles were taken from LG I can't help but go back to the A_S account that was talking to LG the day they went missing. Was LG the target and AW was just collateral damage? So many questions!


"The document says authorities also found that two articles of clothing from one of the girls “…was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered. It also appeared the girls’ bodies were moved and staged.”
FBI agent: Bodies 'moved and staged' in Delphi murders, suspect took clothing

 

[Jorgiexo]

Just a random thought and strictly MOO but do we think multiple POI in this case couldve worked together? Maybe KAK and TK were sharing child *advertiser censored* with RL and they agreed they could use RL's property? Or knew RL through nefarious acts and knew his property and thought it was a good spot for this thinking they'd never be caught? I know RL told his family to cover for him BEFORE news of the murders broke but he said it was rough terrain and he was fairly old I cant imagine him being able to do this or at least not alone.. LE said this is the biggest child *advertiser censored* sex ring in Indiana maybe multiple players are involved and covering for each other because they dont want to get in trouble as well? I guess we'll never know the truth about RL

ALSO... as stated in many articles.. the suspect wouldve been covered in blood due to the injuries... HOW did he get away with no one in this fairly public place seeing any of that? Unless they used RL's property to escape? It was February and it gets dark early. The last time LG cell pinged was 5:00 so it's dark by that time. Did someone turn the phone off? How can you see in the woods to stage the scene if the sun has already gone down?

 

[IQuestion]

The fact that LE and prosecutors didn’t lift a finger to stop the KAK/Police interview from being released I think says a lot about how valuable it is to any future prosecution.
KAK was also questioned after their house was raided two weeks after the murders and I’m sure he’s been interviewed many times while he’s been in jail. LE also has the information taken directly KAK’s devices.

STARRYSTARRYNIGHT (SSN) Thank you. I sure hope you are right and there are many other interviews that can be used. So, am I unduly worried about this particular interview being barred from ever being disclosed to a jury? If nothing else, it gave me an incredible insight (incite too!)
into just how difficult it must have been to interview KAK and listen to his constant lies. By page 56 I had already lost my patience with him. (If I was in the room, I would have to be escorted out after I screamed, "Does your Mother know about the creepy things you have been doing!?") How can someone be so smart with computers and yet not realize there are other people who are just as smart, if not smarter, with a lot more funding to track down his sordid pursuits? I'm guessing he got away with it for so long, he thought no one would ever care to prosecute him. I (thanks to information provided by a kind & brilliant sleuth) have real concerns about the "geographic focus" of KAK's contacts. Hmm, all seem to be within an hour's drive. Hmmm, just because you don't have a valid drivers license, doesn't mean you don't know how to drive or not have access to transportation. If KAK's sole pursuit was to collect pictures and engage in conversation... why not Rhode Island or New Mexico??? So, there has to be an angle in which he hoped to meet or arrange for "meet ups" by others in the same geographic locations. A hunting site for predators? Okay...I have changed my mind...keep him prison for the next 40 years! (My thoughts evolving as I type and just went to a really bad place....)

 

[StarryStarryNight]

STARRYSTARRYNIGHT (SSN) Thank you. I sure hope you are right and there are many other interviews that can be used. So, am I unduly worried about this particular interview being barred from ever being disclosed to a jury? If nothing else, it gave me an incredible insight (incite too!)
into just how difficult it must have been to interview KAK and listen to his constant lies. By page 56 I had already lost my patience with him. (If I was in the room, I would have to be escorted out after I screamed, "Does your Mother know about the creepy things you have been doing!?") How can someone be so smart with computers and yet not realize there are other people who are just as smart, if not smarter, with a lot more funding to track down his sordid pursuits? I'm guessing he got away with it for so long, he thought no one would ever care to prosecute him. I (thanks to information provided by a kind & brilliant sleuth) have real concerns about the "geographic focus" of KAK's contacts. Hmm, all seem to be within an hour's drive. Hmmm, just because you don't have a valid drivers license, doesn't mean you don't know how to drive or not have access to transportation. If KAK's sole pursuit was to collect pictures and engage in conversation... why not Rhode Island or New Mexico??? So, there has to be an angle in which he hoped to meet or arrange for "meet ups" by others in the same geographic locations. A hunting site for predators? Okay...I have changed my mind...keep him prison for the next 40 years! (My thoughts evolving as I type and just went to a really bad place....)

I think you make a very good point about KAK having the whole world to catfish but, as far as we know, only focusing on local girls. It suggests a desire to have access to them and meet up with them. He, of course, denies this, but we know that’s a lie.

 

[HistoryNut]

We’re 5+ years out and I was thinking maybe it’s time to see where we all are on this case.

THE basic questions:
-who do you think BG is
-who do you think killed Libby and Abby
The rules are:
-names only, no commenting on why you think this(we’ve all been here long enough, we know)
-if it’s a WS approved POI, name them
-if it’s a name only from social media, just say “named other“
-“unknown” is a choice too
-if it‘s more than one, name them

Of course there is no right and wrong answer. I’d happily be wrong for LE to finally make an arrest.

I’ll go first.

BG: James Brian Chadwell
Killer: James Brian Chadwell and Tony Kline

Killer/BG unknown CSAM associate of KAK. I haven’t ruled out Chadwell. I suspect there may have been two killers. I also think if TK was a bonafide suspect, he would have been arrested by now.

 

[carbuff]

I've always been concerned that one of the holdups to charging someone in this case was that some evidence had been disqualified, though I suspected a badly executed search rather than an interview faux pas.

It's not just that they can't use part or all of the interview. If they used information in the disallowed interview to get a search warrant, etc., the evidence recovered could also be disallowed. I think they call it "fruit of the poisoned tree," or something like that.

 

[Kudzuu]

I've always been concerned that one of the holdups to charging someone in this case was that some evidence had been disqualified, though I suspected a badly executed search rather than an interview faux pas.

It's not just that they can't use part or all of the interview. If they used information in the disallowed interview to get a search warrant, etc., the evidence recovered could also be disallowed. I think they call it "fruit of the poisoned tree," or something like that.

Yes. The Unabomber used it.

 

[TL4S]

While I agree it is possible that the K(s) were basically the middle man between the killer and L, I have to ask myself why the K(s) would do all the communicating and meetup planning for a third party who would never take over communications for himself? What would the K(s) get from that, really, aside from maybe some money?

Even if L's location on Feb. 13 was shared with a third party, known or unknown to the K(s), then what about the ski mask peeper one week later? Another shared communication and location with a silent third party? And always local? This goes way beyond CSAM sharing, if that's the case.

I have a hard time with that. I believe the motive behind creating the a_shots account, which subpoenas linked directly to the Peru house, was for the sole benefit of the user(s), who again, apparently used it from the Peru house (and Vegas) over days, weeks, and month, via KAK's devices. JMO

 

[Gerrymd8]

Killer/BG unknown CSAM associate of KAK. I haven’t ruled out Chadwell. I suspect there may have been two killers. I also think if TK was a bonafide suspect, he would have been arrested by now.

I am in line with this thinking that the killer/BG is an unknown CSAM associate of KAK. I keep going back to the 2017 police Probable Cause Affidavit where KAK notes that "Kegan admitted to speaking to approximately 15 girls that were underage and advised he probably received pictures from every one of them. He advised he saved their pictures to his gallery. During his interview, Kegan stated he was and should've left. Kegan advised he packed another back and took it to Las Vegas on February 25,2017. He stated he was going to leave when his dad was asleep."

This makes me believe he absolutely had some involvement. He was saying he was going to leave from Las Vegas on the trip with his Dad.
So:
1. Perhaps his Dad was involved and he wanted to get away from him.
2. His Dad was not involved and he wanted to get away from him.

And who was the original lead investigator for this case? Because after the polygraph of Kegan in 2017, it wasn't until another lead investigator came onboard in April of 2020, that KAK was taken seriously as involved. I am just not sure he is the killer.

 

[Pitsleuth]

Welcome !
Murder Sheet Kegan Kline Redacted Statement.pdf

Here is your link.

Thank you!!

 

[carbuff]

It's pretty easy to steal internet. For instance, somebody who liked to camp under bridges when he was homeless might be camped in range to piggyback on somebody else's router. A little more effort and you might be able to intercept messages or other network traffic.

 

[TL4S]

It's pretty easy to steal internet. For instance, somebody who liked to camp under bridges when he was homeless might be camped in range to piggyback on somebody else's router. A little more effort and you might be able to intercept messages or other network traffic.

KAK admitted he and his dad were the only ones in Vegas, in a shared motel room. A friend met them there, iirc, but KAK doesn't even deny looking stuff up while in Vegas, like the Delphi murder, DNA, IP addresses, and LE said a_shots was still communicating with L after she was dead (not sure if that was during or before Vegas). This activity, IMO, points away from an unauthorized wifi pirate and towards the same two users who shared the Peru address already linked to the account, the same two who traveled to Vegas. Then the timeframe of the "grooming" was the only thing deleted from KAK's device. It's all too suspicious, imo.

 

[carbuff]

KAK admitted he and his dad were the only ones in Vegas, in a shared motel room. A friend met them there, iirc, but KAK doesn't even deny looking stuff up while in Vegas, like the Delphi murder, DNA, IP addresses, and LE said a_shots was still communicating with L after she was dead (not sure if that was during or before Vegas). This activity, IMO, points away from an unauthorized wifi pirate and towards the same two users who shared the Peru address already linked to the account, the same two who traveled to Vegas. Then the timeframe of the "grooming" was the only thing deleted from KAK's device. It's all too suspicious, imo.

I was talking about Indiana, not Nevada. Also not questioning anything at all about what KAK did or who he talked to.

I"m just speculating whether it would have been possible for someone to eavesdrop on some of KAK's communications and learn about the local girls he was meeting that way, enabling him to know KAK was meeting somebody at the bridge.

 

[Schatz]

KAK admitted he and his dad were the only ones in Vegas, in a shared motel room. A friend met them there, iirc, but KAK doesn't even deny looking stuff up while in Vegas, like the Delphi murder, DNA, IP addresses, and LE said a_shots was still communicating with L after she was dead (not sure if that was during or before Vegas). This activity, IMO, points away from an unauthorized wifi pirate and towards the same two users who shared the Peru address already linked to the account, the same two who traveled to Vegas. Then the timeframe of the "grooming" was the only thing deleted from KAK's device. It's all too suspicious, imo.

I’m trying to remember if the friend in Vegas and the friend who sometimes hung out at their place are the same person. Do you know?

 

[Schatz]

I’m trying to remember if the friend in Vegas and the friend who sometimes hung out at their place are the same person. Do you know?

To be clear, I want to know for the sole purpose of ruling out or in a third person accessing some of that content in both places.

 

[HistoryNut]

I am in line with this thinking that the killer/BG is an unknown CSAM associate of KAK. I keep going back to the 2017 police Probable Cause Affidavit where KAK notes that "Kegan admitted to speaking to approximately 15 girls that were underage and advised he probably received pictures from every one of them. He advised he saved their pictures to his gallery. During his interview, Kegan stated he was and should've left. Kegan advised he packed another back and took it to Las Vegas on February 25,2017. He stated he was going to leave when his dad was asleep."

This makes me believe he absolutely had some involvement. He was saying he was going to leave from Las Vegas on the trip with his Dad.
So:
1. Perhaps his Dad was involved and he wanted to get away from him.
2. His Dad was not involved and he wanted to get away from him.

And who was the original lead investigator for this case? Because after the polygraph of Kegan in 2017, it wasn't until another lead investigator came onboard in April of 2020, that KAK was taken seriously as involved. I am just not sure he is the killer.

I really struggle with how long it took for LE to arrest KAK. They either dropped the ball or they were watching him all along. I noticed on the Indiana Court website that all of his charges were from 2016 and 2017, except one. That was on 5/14/2020 for child exploitation and dissemination, exhibit or offer to do so.(for CSAM). Sounds like he may have taken a long break but he couldn't resist the temptation.

 

[Schatz]

I really struggle with how long it took for LE to arrest KAK. They either dropped the ball or they were watching him all along. I noticed on the Indiana Court website that all of his charges were from 2016 and 2017, except one. That was on 5/14/2020 for child exploitation and dissemination, exhibit or offer to do so.(for CSAM). Sounds like he may have taken a long break but he couldn't resist the temptation.

5/14/20 Which (and who knows if this could be related or not, and if we had access to a “beating a dead horse” emoji, I’d be happy to include it) was 9 days after JBC’s dad filed to evict him from their Peru home.

The two, as I’ve mentioned before, have some coincidental (or not idk) overlap in their court cases. MOO.

 

[Boxer]

I was talking about Indiana, not Nevada. Also not questioning anything at all about what KAK did or who he talked to.

I"m just speculating whether it would have been possible for someone to eavesdrop on some of KAK's communications and learn about the local girls he was meeting that way, enabling him to know KAK was meeting somebody at the bridge.

Do we know what app the A_S account was on?