Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[mrsobrien]

I rarely believe those confessions ,only if it's proven. I think killers cover for each other, intentionally confuse investigations, want to be notorious for body count, etc.

Only time I have seen it is when they are already locked up for life for a different crime. No possibility of additional punishment etc

But I'm sure it has happened in other circummstances as well.....just very rare

 

[flashy09]

I really wasn’t on board with those saying LE has a person in mind, but now I am. I do think it is going to turn out to be a betrayal of the community. I hope this goes quickly.




Soy un perded
I'm a loser baby so why don't you kill me?

I just can't figure out why no arrest! Go get him!

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Holy cow. Is there somewhere this can be discussed?

For this kind of thing you have to take it to private message, which you can’t announce on the thread either.

 

[Razz]

Sorry to jump in here but I just read one of the girls had an 18 year old brother and my heart dropped. I'm sure they've looked at the outer or inner edges of the brother's friends/acquaintances? And if not, they should.

 

[IronOrchid]

He did turn himself in, good thinking! I don't think it was motivated by guilt, but it's a start.

It might be comforting to say we won't see another like Kemper, but if history is any indication, that is unlikely.

 

[NickoD]

Question for law professionals- @gitana1 : on the subject of probable cause- someone mentioned that trash, once discarded on the street, is public property and therefore fair game for DNA retrieval by LE. Is a probably cause warrant required for that DNA to be collected? Someone mentioned the "coffee cup trick". Is obtaining DNA by any means other than with a warrant allowed? Can you really trick someone into giving DNA and use that evidence in court?

It’s not quite that simple. The attempt to collect shed DNA is employed when a POI is actively being investigated, has refused to give a DNA sample, and is actively attempting to cover any DNA traces. At that point LEOs, with guidance from the DA’s office, can collect shed DNA evidence but their examination is only to lead to a collection warrant for a formal sample, not to be used as evidence themselves.

ETA: I know you asked a lawyer and I am not a lawyer so please take my words as my experience and opinion.

 

[mrsobrien]

Except that scene is kinda sad, imo. Frankie didn't mean to hurt that girl.

That’s discouraging but I expect suspect fatigue has probably affected this small town; this is totally off base BUT if anybody there really knows who BG is I wouldn’t mind seeing a scene out of the old Frankenstein movie where the townspeople chase the monster thru town carrying torches...

 

[mrsobrien]

My quote broke, now I'm lost, lol

 

[IronOrchid]

DNA extrapolation and collection and analysis is very costly. In a crime, it's actually used as a last resort by those who have a conviction in mind.

 

[Alethea]

It’s not quite that simple. The attempt to collect shed DNA is employed when a POI is actively being investigated, has refused to give a DNA sample, and is actively attempting to cover any DNA traces. At that point LEOs, with guidance from the DA’s office, can collect shed DNA evidence but their examination is only to lead to a collection warrant for a formal sample, not to be used as evidence themselves.

Whatever you throw away is considered discarded and no longer your property subject to search restrictions. Police can pick up your discarded coffee cup and if the DNA on the cup matches DNA on file from a crime scene, they can arrest you based on that evidence. That's exactly what happened to Gary Ridgeway, the Green River killer. Most states allow DNA to be collected on arrest so another sample can be run if there are any chain of custody issues.

 

[Alethea]

DNA extrapolation and collection and analysis is very costly. In a crime, it's actually used as a last resort by those who have a conviction in mind.

It's not that expensive, suspects are ruled in or out all the time using DNA. CODIS is one of the best law enforcement tools out there.

 

[Jabarn]

I can’t imagine the BG had any prior connection as a direct family member or he would have already been identified.

He is a stranger to the family, IMO.

I do think the new take he is a local, or has been a local, or has reason to be in the area (like for work) makes sense, and I do think it’s only a matter of time.

It will take culling though cell phone pings, identifying who’s a possibility, and all the other tough legwork the investigative team have to do that is under appreciated.

 

[gitana1]

I just can't figure out why no arrest! Go get him!

They need probable cause. Having someone in mind is not the same as probable cause.

 

[elmomom]

It's not that expensive, suspects are ruled in or out all the time using DNA. CODIS is one of the best law enforcement tools out there.

I am just jumping off this post about DNA, not really replying to you.

I don’t think they have the DNA they need. I think they collected some samples and it turned out not to be useable, or was not actually DNA from the suspect. There was water at the scene, we do not know how savvy the suspect was, or if he actually left DNA at all.

 

[flashy09]

They need probable cause. Having someone in mind is not the same as probable cause.

I have to learn some more about probable cause! I am obviously way too excitable. This week has been baffling to me!

 

[Seattle1]

Whatever you throw away is considered discarded and no longer your property subject to search restrictions. Police can pick up your discarded coffee cup and if the DNA on the cup matches DNA on file from a crime scene, they can arrest you based on that evidence. That's exactly what happened to Gary Ridgeway, the Green River killer. Most states allow DNA to be collected on arrest so another sample can be run if there are any chain of custody issues.

Thanks @althea -- Also, I just learned that Indiana state law changed in 2018:

One of the greatest potential aids for the case is a resource that wasn’t available at the time of the murders. A state law change effective January 1, 2018—nearly a year after the slayings—allows police to take DNA samples from anyone arrested for a felony offense. Those samples are then searched against national databases for matches, and recorded. Previously, DNA samples were taken only from those convicted of a felony. Within the first quarter of 2018, Indiana investigators got 72 hits from arrestee-sample DNA.

Halfway Across: The Delphi Murders

 

[Boxer]

I just can't figure out why no arrest! Go get him!

MOO this case is hopping. Seems to me they have many leads to follow up on. Abby and Libby I am sure would want the correct individual brought to justice, and successfully prosecuted.

 

[MassGuy]

I am just jumping off this post about DNA, not really replying to you.

I don’t think they have the DNA they need. I think they collected some samples and it turned out not to be useable, or was not actually DNA from the suspect. There was water at the scene, we do not know how savvy the suspect was, or if he actually left DNA at all.

I somewhat agree.

They have taken swabs of people who have been identified as potential suspects in this case.

I do take that as a sign that they have something to compare them to.

That being said, the lack of a solid DNA generated description of this suspect (Parabon), tells me that what they do have, might not be of firm origin, or quality.

 

[moonlessnight]

true. and they also almost always believe they won't get caught or convicted. they are delusional and grandiose and think they are smarter than everyone else, and that they can manipulate those around them enough to control the situation. but so many times, they are wrong. and despite what the police supt said, I don't think this guy cares enough about his family to prevent a huge scene and scandal for them. I don't think he cares if they are raided in the middle of the night, and thrown into the media when he is arrested. I doubt he cares if they are humiliated. he only cares about what they can do for him and that they continue to protect him. IMO

I know of some death bed confessions but you’re right it is very rare. With these monsters you are not dealing with normal people with a conscience who feel guilt.

 

[drama_farmer]

It was so difficult to understand the new request for car information in the Social Services Building that has since been torn down. I have been stewing on that since Monday. MOO it probably connects to the new sketch.

Is it possible that the witness who saw something and felt it should be reported (the witness to the current sketch) saw BG in or around that car parked at the now demolished building at a specific time on February 13?

The witness would probably have no reason to note the make and model of car at the time, but after finding out about the murders, they approached police with what they observed? IMO MOO