Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[Ajl48]

Does anyone think that this could be remotely possible? What if Sketch #2, the killer, was making his way back after the murders more slowly, stealthly to that lot where he parked, where it seems others regularly park for this trail. If he was walking back slowly to his car through the woods so as not to draw attention, to be seen, taking off some of his outer wear, hat, fanny pack and rolling it all up together. He gets back to the parking lot, maybe quickly stashes bundle in trunk, gets in his car and before he gets the chance to leave, he could be sitting in his car ready to go and that's when people start arriving to search. Especially if they parked right close to him, now what does he do? He's been seen. Does he now pretend he just arrived? He gets out of the car like he's there to hike, just by happenstance inserting himself into a bunch of frantic worried family, friends, almost tagging along. It just gave me the creeps when ISP guy started talking about hiding in plain site, could be in this room, you never thought we'd change strategy, you're getting thrill out of this-talk. Is it possible that this second sketch is of the nice, concerned guy that just happened to arrive when we did but now has disappeared kind of thing? He had finally managed after some time helping to slip away back to his car before police are called, when he hears someone is about to call them around 5pm. The family members later describe him, maybe they can't remember the car he was in because they were all so focused on getting out of theirs and onto the trails to search. His sketch, produced by someone(s) there who'd been searching, after Libby's phone evidence is found is but on the back burner in favor of the sketch of someone who saw him earlier with all the extra clothes and hat on along with the bridge photos. So Sketch #1 guy IS Sketch #2 guy? Something like this would certainly explain ISP officer at press conference be so very upset and angry. Everything he emoted that day reeked of an almost betrayal-like anger, like how dare you. Maybe the actual timeline doesn't allow for any of what I've said?

I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if he inserted himself into the search, simply because the fact he took on two girls rather than one could indicate a suspect who is pretty brazen and not as careful as he could be when carrying out his fantasies.

 

[ab01]

New interview brings Delphi murders to national attention yep on the Megan Kelly show Carter said to look at the body and not the face, distancing himself from the sketch

It also makes me wonder if they now feel like the people that they had work on the images, in a effort to make it clearer may have actually unknowingly distorted some characteristics

No fault of their own, but I think what’s not there originally as far as pixels just can’t be overcome imo

Theses people, nasa, fbi etc are well trained and know what they can and can’t do. I think they were just fighting an uphill battle

The problem is no matter what the general public thinks. Pixels are pixels and I believe the original image was of low quality and shot from a great distance

Jmo

 

[Skigh]

Yes, Skigh, I completely agree with you.

Just my humble opinion, but it could be that the partial (or whole) DNA analysis has come back from a lab, with maybe comparisons already obtained from one of those sites already discussed here, into which LE could upload a profile.

The DNA results might ultimately show that a large extended family who lives in the area, with maybe 3 dozen males, share some portion of their DNA with BG.

Perhaps Superintendent D. Carter is a member of that large family too. I feel bad for him. He seemed upset on a couple of different levels at the press conference.

Here's the Bottom Line: Law Enforcement are professionals. They will solve this. They are dedicated. They may even be close.

My opinion only; Based on varied Life Experiences

ETA: wording more exact

I agree they might have used DNA which has narrowed down the search to a family connection.
I personally think if it indicated Carter's family he would have been taken off the case.
I think they might need to make certain which family member it was and check it was only one person involved.
I think this might be connected to wanting to know who was driving the car.

 

[MsBetsy]

New interview brings Delphi murders to national attention yep on the Megan Kelly show Carter said to look at the body and not the face, distancing himself from the sketch

Yes, Carter did say at the beginning of the press conference that what they were about to say was based on thousands of hours of investigative work by numerous people involved. Not word for word, he may have even said thousands and thousands.
Anyway it leaves the impression that they have been looking into the sketch and the new information for quite a while.
I wonder if the information about the car is recent information, and nothing was known about it at the time of the murder. Either that or it was cleared at the time, and now, because of new evidence, they believe it is involved. Imo

 

[bkgregg5]

I didn't post it but asked for it yesterday as I had not seen it and someone kindly posted it
View attachment 182218

Thank you!!!!

 

[margarita25]

A witness saw the vehicle late in the morning, before Noon. The individual is a civilian.

I drove by the building in August of 2017, no signs were posted, and it was a building that was easy to miss. Same as the parking area where the girls were dropped off, easy to miss. You'd have to be looking for it in order to notice, and take note of, it.

No tags were run of the vehicle parked there, we'd know by now, in fact we would have known early on. LE stated early on they thought BG hitch hiked out of there, which I thought was ludicrous. Turns out at least one witness contacted LE in the those first couple of weeks about a vehicle parked at the abandoned building, but it wasn't until last week that LE mentioned it publicly. I find this odd, although similar tactics have been used in other high-profile investigations. Note they didn't give a description. the description I've seen is kinda vague.

JMO

BBM:
“A witness saw the vehicle late in the morning, before Noon. The individual is a civilian.”

So it is possibly safe to say that BG could have been stalking the trail and hunting for a while before encountering the girls?

What was he doing for this time period exactly?

 

[x_files]

And that's why BG didn't see Libby videoing him, because Abby was blocking his view of Libby's phone.

JMO

I wonder if the videotaping set him off? He flew into a narcissist rage or felt the girls were laughing at him (paranoid/delusional)? Is it possible he killed them from a fit of rage vs planned murder?

 

[MistyWaters]

While I do not live in a small town today, I grew up in a small Midwestern town (not as small as Delphi but pretty small). I think it's really, really important we remember that life is a little different. People loan each other cars, may have unfettered access to company vehicles, may have more casual relationships with letting friends use their computers if/when they visit each other's homes, may even leave their jacket at their friend's house and the friend uses it from time-to-time. I'm not saying that's always the case, but it definitely can be. I did a little experiment. Over the last 24 hours I paid careful attention to the people in my community (at work, at the grocery store, at the gas station, etc .) and I noticed at least three people who could fit the suspect's description. For all of the reasons I just mentioned (and many more), I am trying to keep an open mind.

Yes, and I think another difference is parking control in smaller places is hugely different than cities. And the location where this car was parked points to this guy having local knowledge.

That’s because it appears there were only 3 spots at the Monon High Bridge and I get the impression the parking lot at the abandoned building was the next closest to the Monon Bridge Trail main access, a 5 minute walk. But as this wasn’t a public parking lot, only locals would know it was okay to park there.

I don’t think someone from out of town with murderous intentions would park their car from noon to 5pm anywhere that would’ve risked it being ticketed or towed.

 

[Gumbeaux]

New interview brings Delphi murders to national attention yep on the Megan Kelly show Carter said to look at the body and not the face, distancing himself from the sketch

This interview is from Feb 17, 2018. NOT about the newly released sketch!

 

[MJPeony]

No, and people aren’t supposed to look perfect or have symmetrical faces in general, and we are not supposed to comment, either, but this is a murder; also, there are some things that are more difficult to disguise. A small forehead is usually covered with bangs. Unusual form of head, with a good haircut (to a degree). Large chin can be concealed by a beard, so the question is, why doesn’t a person wear a beard? Although I have met a couple of people with very large chins, and each time there was some element of acromegaly involved, and in these cases, people chose not to wear a beard, for some reason.

What Carter wanted the people of Delphi to know was that the person looked somewhat unusual, but at the same time, no one would typically suspect him. I bet that to them, the message was clear.

BBM.

I may be in the minority, but I just do not think the new sketch looks particularly remarkable, with any obvious glaring characteristics. I do not see an unusually large chin. I actually don't see anything that really stands out. In fact, he looks more "average" to me than the original sketch. JMO.

Don't get me wrong- I really want to think there is something super distinct about the new sketch. But I see a very average looking young man. As others have said- he looks like Justin Timberlake, he looks like a neighbor, etc. Heck, my kids said he looks like my husband (don't worry, he was states away on Feb. 13, 2017 and I've confirmed his alibi ).

I do think the purpose of the sketch was to note something(s) different from the original OBG sketch. There are differences for sure, but nothing that stands out as an otherwise "prominent" feature- JMO. I think the differences are only going to be recognized by people close to the killer.

All MOO.

 

[Joolz1975]

I wonder if the videotaping set him off? He flew into a narisstis rage or felt the girls were laughing at him (paranoid/delusional)? Is it possible he killed them from a fit of rage vs planned murder?

I've thought that myself at odd times, but if he has a kill kit under his jacket like some suggest then he must have gone there with sinister intentions.

 

[ab01]

A witness saw the vehicle late in the morning, before Noon. The individual is a civilian.

I drove by the building in August of 2017, no signs were posted, and it was a building that was easy to miss. Same as the parking area where the girls were dropped off, easy to miss. You'd have to be looking for it in order to notice, and take note of, it.

No tags were run of the vehicle parked there, we'd know by now, in fact we would have known early on. LE stated early on they thought BG hitch hiked out of there, which I thought was ludicrous. Turns out at least one witness contacted LE in the those first couple of weeks about a vehicle parked at the abandoned building, but it wasn't until last week that LE mentioned it publicly. I find this odd, although similar tactics have been used in other high-profile investigations. Note they didn't give a description. the description I've seen is kinda vague.

JMO

Do you have a source to the witness seeing the car parked at the abandoned building before noon?

I hadn’t heard that

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Have any of you considered that this information about the vehicle may have been taken from a dashboard camera?

 

[puppyraiser]

DBM

 

[Joolz1975]

Have any of you considered that this information about the vehicle may have been taken from a dashboard camera?

Yes or some other kind of camera in the region that has caught the vehicle but not a clear shot of the driver.

 

[Deleted member 278]

Do you have a source to the witness seeing the car parked at the abandoned building before noon?

I hadn’t heard that

Thanks for asking this! You beat me to it.

 

[ocgrad]

I worry about every action at the PC being perceived to be intelligently designed. Was the ' noon-5pm on Feb 14th vehicle that was Abandoned' and subsequent correction and clarification the following day, also part of the plan?

Et snip incomplete further example

We don't know so can't assume one way or the other.
Did they find later that the suspect abandoned a vehicle on the 14th that matches what was seen by a witness on the 13th? Maybe a vehicle he scrapped out or stole that didn't get reported as abandoned till some time later? It seemed like a goof and an odd way of stating it but it could have been for effect.

 

[margarita25]

A couple thoughts, yesterday I was trying to see if I “noticed” or had any kind of “conscious connection for future recollection” of the cars I passed parked at businesses along the highway as I was passing. The answer is no, imo, as far as anyone driving by on the highway and noticing the car for whatever reason and especially recalling it later. Again, they’re looking for the “driver” I realize, but was still thinking about this.

Secondly, I was thinking more about Libby’s phone and it being found:

IF BG did not sexually assault Libby and killed her quickly, then he would not have any reason perhaps to encounter her phone upon her person.

As it’s been stated here, and MO on the HLN panel touched on this as well, that maybe he only wanted one of the girls. If so, I could see him not discovering Libby’s phone if his main target was Libby.

 

[MizStery]

Thanks Wells!

This sounds correct to me from what I have read and heard. Thank you. I am going to edit my initial post about eyewitnesses.

Wells,I brought this post forward because I was hoping to stress the importance of your work in compiling MSM links.

2nd Attempt to provide MSM links for eyewitness accounts. Off to work on map of park with relevant eyewitness info (info provided, who provided info and what time it was provided). May take me a minute but I didn't want to start until I had Harmony's comment answered.

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Thread 96 Post 967
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #96



This post is for Wells and all WS posters who may be interested in watching a Grey Hughes Investigates Video.

via @YouTube[/MEDIA]

I am not sure how many posters have already viewed it. This as an interview & question answer segment by Gray Hughes with the Pattys. In the video (it was difficult for me not to cry)an emotional but fearless Becky Patty discusses the timeline including the critical moments at the bridge that day. She talks about where Derrick German and various witnesses,CE, flannel shirt etc. were.

The aspect that was most helpful to me was the timeline was discussed in a linear format. “Abby and Libby Delphi case Round Table - with Becky Patty Part 2”.

If this is redundant I will promptly delete.


MOO

 

[Skigh]

Apart from visiting the trail or cemetery are there any other reason to park there.Is there a church next to the cemetary?