Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[marisab67]

Can no one else really see the respirator/mask in the enhanced bridge photos? It is so obvious to me now. I couldn't figure out what it was with the mouth and whatever white item is anterior to his neck area until I saw the enhanced bridge photo. Then it was obvious. Someone else on reddit also noted a respirator, and I am convinced there is some sort of mouthpiece with attached bag.[/QUOTE

Yes, if anything I would think the killer is not at all religious and has no ties to any church.
I think he is a bit of a loner or a recluse, although he may have a small circle of friends. I think he is the type who just blends in rather than stands out. I don't think he is college educated, but is fairly intelligent, with poor social skills.
The main reason I believe this is because I don't think if he was exposed to so many different people he would be able to "hide in plain sight" very easily. Too many people would notice something.
That, and the very nature of the crime. People don't just suddenly decide to murder two young girls, and then go back to their lives as if nothing happened. It takes a particular type of sicko to do something like this. I think he did what he did to feel in control and "important" because nothing else in his life makes him feel that way.
I also don't think he has a particular profession. He may have trouble holding a job, or has had a variety of different jobs or for a period of time, none at all.
Of course I could be wrong and he could be a well respected, highly educated member of the community.
But I don't think so.
If he is, then he is pretty darn good at not showing his true self, to a great number of people around him. Imo

I’m watching the new Ted Bundy movie on Netflix which disproves everything you just said. JMO MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

A psychopath could easily return to normal life without skipping a beat.

Very true, and I wouldn't doubt the killer has those very traits. Imo

 

[GordianKnot]

If BG is a psychopath, he has the ability to "compartmentalize" the different facets of his life, and probably has no need to tell anyone else. Think of Dennis Rader, who was president of his church, a husband and father, and a "solid citizen" (although not always a popular one), who had an entire other life where perversion and murder ruled. MOO.

Exactly.

Compartmentalization is also what is allowing BG to "hide in plain sight."

In terms of his everyday interactions and behaviors, BG doesn't resemble that guy on the bridge.

He comes across as being someone else entirely.

JMO.

 

[wary]

What are mirror trees, please?
Good points about this man possibly being non-biological to parents. I suspected that a while back.

Another possibility would be if he comes from family lines where people have intermarried within the group for a long time. That can give genetic genealogy fits—I assume because you have so many people to check out. If they believed in old-guy sketch, they might have been investigating a completely wrong set of men. (All IMO, of course.)

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

So in all honesty, I didn’t think the reference to religion by Carter in this latest press conference held any great significance other than he was aware that it’s a wise practise to connect with the audience (ie locals) whom he was speaking to. One of the ways he did so was by acknowledging their faith and therefore I don’t think it was intended as an outright clue to the identity of the murderer. JMO

I was trying to think of the best way to state the same idea, and lo and behold, you did it for me! Great point, IMHO.

 

[kkdj]

I agree.I thought shower cap when I first saw it.
I think he could be wearing a wig
I think he was forensically aware so it follows he would want to cover his own hair. So I think he did disguise his normal hair.

If he was wearing a wig, gloves, fake stubbles and mustache, I hope they have DNA. If they were SA and he had thought of all the other ways for them not to get DNA then he thought of concealing that way too. Doesn't mean he in fact was successful in concealing all of his DNA, but maybe he gave it great consideration.

 

[wary]

Transcript of the PC.

Other than the blue language, which very likely is just a standard appeal to conscience colored with a mention of a movie that he just happened to watch recently, where is the religious overtones or emphasis?

Weeeelllll... isn’t that sort of like saying: “other than the religious overtones, where are the religious overtones?”

I do agree that we on WS are over-emphasizing them, just as we over-analyze the ‘guys’ in BG’s speech, and the glitch in his step.

 

[Lucky66]

Thank you! @Choochoobella

 

[susiQ]

People don't just suddenly decide to murder two young girls, and then go back to their lives as if nothing happened.

RSABBM
With all respect MsBetsy, I disagree. Many a murderer does just that. Ted Bundy, Paul Bernardo & Dellen Millard are a few that come to mind. Just sayin'

 

[DancingMuse]

Another phenomenally thorough and well-done recap!!!!
Thanks so much ChooChooBella!

 

[TheVisual]

Yes, if anything I would think the killer is not at all religious and has no ties to any church.
I think he is a bit of a loner or a recluse, although he may have a small circle of friends. I think he is the type who just blends in rather than stands out. I don't think he is college educated, but is fairly intelligent, with poor social skills.
The main reason I believe this is because I don't think if he was exposed to so many different people he would be able to "hide in plain sight" very easily. Too many people would notice something.
That, and the very nature of the crime. People don't just suddenly decide to murder two young girls, and then go back to their lives as if nothing happened. It takes a particular type of sicko to do something like this. I think he did what he did to feel in control and "important" because nothing else in his life makes him feel that way.
I also don't think he has a particular profession. He may have trouble holding a job, or has had a variety of different jobs or for a period of time, none at all.
Of course I could be wrong and he could be a well respected, highly educated member of the community.
But I don't think so.
If he is, then he is pretty darn good at not showing his true self, to a great number of people around him. Imo

Is it possible that BG maybe did something at the crime scene to indicate remorse at what he had done? Also if he was brought up and hounded by family to go to church (and got the Holy Spirit while he was there, and then lost it along the way) he might have remorse deep inside about what he did and it is driving him crazy. Hopefully this last PC(if he saw it) will get him to tell someone or turn himself in.

 

[Charlot123]

What are mirror trees, please?
Good points about this man possibly being non-biological to parents. I suspected that a while back.

Mirror trees, the way I understand, is how they investigate old crimes. They put the DNA in the format compatible with Gedmatch database. If they are lucky, they find at least one close enough relative. (2nd cousin would be great). Or maybe, several not so close but still workable. Then they reconstruct the family trees for these matches, upwards, and compare them. Somewhere, depending on the proximity, they will arrive at the potential common ancestor (s). And from the ancestor, they go back to all his descendants and find the one that would potentially match the profile. (e.g., living in the same area, Delphi or vicinity, for this case), being around in the time of the murders, or fitting the profile otherwise. Usually there might be 3-4 people who could be the potential POI from the DNA studies, so they don't necessarily zero in on one person. Then they might ask the DNA from all 3-4 to confirm. This is when someone refusing a swab would be interesting...

It works better with old crimes. When you have the DNA, the area of the crimes, but nothing else. This is how the first crime in California was solved. They identified 3-4 people and collected their DNA (discarded tissues, glasses, etc).

Please correct me if I am wrong. I never worked with mirror trees as I am from another country and once missed a huge window of opportunity.

In the case when there is fresh DNA, and some other clues, one could simply collect the DNA from potential suspects, or a larger group of people. But after all, the POI might know he is of interest, and be very wary of leaving any "traces" anywhere. Then you have to work the same way.

What I am concerned about is that if there was embryo donation, or international adoption, the situation is much worse. Also, non-paternity event is confusing.

But - for international adoptions, at least, there might be traces of an adoption. People can't adopt that covertly.

For embryo donations, that always are a possibility, as they were around since mid-80es, one would hope that the donors were from the same area, and then one could eventually find them. But it is more straightforward if the person is not adopted.

This is how I understand it. Tell me if I am wrong.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

.

 

[MsBetsy]

RSABBM
With all respect MsBetsy, I disagree. Many a murderer does just that. Ted Bundy, Paul Bernardo & Dellen Millard are a few that come to mind. Just sayin'

Yes, I meant a normal person who is well balanced and respected in the community. I think there is something wrong with this person, much like as is the case for many other murderers, like Ted Bundy.
Also Ted Bundy was not a loner without many friends. He was very charismatic. Israel Keyes was described as a good guy.
Neither were normal. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[enelram]

Another possibility would be if he comes from family lines where people have intermarried within the group for a long time. That can give genetic genealogy fits—I assume because you have so many people to check out. If they believed in old-guy sketch, they might have been investigating a completely wrong set of men. (All IMO, of course.)

funny you bring that up- intermarrying within the family or
in-breeding as we call it. Reason I was researching the several
possible medical/congenital reasons mentioned earlier as to why
perp has oddly long chin or weird way of shuffling along, etc.
Many traits are traced back to inbreeding within the family and
these traits can show up many decades later.
Centuries ago royal families intermarried to keep power and
resources within a family. But they also started the chain of
congenital defects that we still see today.

 

[ab01]

Many times in these cases where we suspect a stranger murder everyone always once to jump straight to the conclusion that there is a serial killer involved. Especially as it relates to children.

Below is a study by FGCU and Radford conducted in 2015 that charts know amounts of serial killers in the US for each individual year. If you notice
It peaked right around 1987 with 128 known active serial killer. The trend continued to decline to just 15 in 2015.

Either LE is getting much worse at identifying serial killers or there are a lot fewer of them bc technology has advanced in such a way that they are captured before they officially can kill 3 or more victims.

With that said BG May very well be one of them, but I think there’s a much greater chance that he is not.

Now could he become one? Absolutely!

Just food for thought
http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial Killer Information Center/Serial Killer Statistics.pdf

 

[mtnlites]

Many times in these cases where we suspect a stranger murder everyone always once to jump straight to the conclusion that there is a serial killer involved. Especially as it relates to children.

Below is a study by FGCU and Radford conducted in 2015 that charts know amounts of serial killers in the US for each individual year. If you notice
It peaked right around 1987 with 128 known active serial killer. The trend continued to decline to just 15 in 2015.

Either LE is getting much worse at identifying serial killers or there are a lot fewer of them bc technology has advanced in such a way that they are captured before they officially can kill 3 or more victims.

With that said BG May very well be one of them, but I think there’s a much greater chance that he is not.

Now could he become one? Absolutely!

Just food for thought
http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial Killer Information Center/Serial Killer Statistics.pdf

I think it's much more likely that he has had some petty crimes in his past, or has been charged with DV, than this being the work of a serial killer. But as you said, there's always that potential that he could become one.

 

[Suglo]

Best Case Worst Case Delphi Murders Podcast, Part Two


Let’s go inside the minds of these investigators and all who work on cases like this. Why was Carter so emotional? How does an investigation like this affect those who work on it?


Carter was visibly emotional. There were times he had to pause. It’s not something we see often from seasoned LE. They try not to present that kind of face to the public.

What effect do you think Carter’s manner had on the perp? Jim thinks Carter’s manner showed humanity and the level of emotion paired perfectly with Carter’s statement that they will not stop until they get this guy. It’s a message to the offender that he can never rest.

Bobby felt the emotion Carter exhibited was honest, raw and genuine. It was important for him as the leader of this effort to demonstrate that emotion, to show that all the men and women working this case are just as emotionally invested as Carter is.

Maureen has worked these terrible crime scenes involving children. There is no way that you can’t become emotionally attached to an investigation. The emotions fuel most investigators to work harder and to do everything possible to catch this person. It’s hard to slow your mind down when you work a case like this.

Do the investigators stay invested two years later? Jim said that nobody tires of a case like this, but it constantly weighs on their shoulders until the case is solved. It taints you. LE goes home to their families and pray that nothing like this ever happens to their loved ones. You realize there are some real horrors out there, some really bad people. You also must harden your heart to survive this kind of work.

Maureen said another unintended consequence of this kind of work is that you find when people complain to you about things, you think, “That doesn’t even ping my radar. I was just with the body of a small child. What are you even complaining about?” Jim said this kind of work makes it difficult to be in relationships. Your significant others are living a normal life and they don’t understand that spilled milk is spilled milk; this is life or death.

Francey signed off by telling the killer that LE is coming after him. Maureen said we’ll all be so happy when he goes down. Maureen expressed great gratitude to her fellow LE officers working on this case. Jim also said he is also grateful for investigative genealogy and that if they recovered any DNA from this scene, they can hunt this guy down.

Thank you so much for doing all this work! I, and I’m sure others, really appreciate it.

 

[MsBetsy]

Is it possible that BG maybe did something at the crime scene to indicate remorse at what he had done? Also if he was brought up and hounded by family to go to church (and got the Holy Spirit while he was there, and then lost it along the way) he might have remorse deep inside about what he did and it is driving him crazy. Hopefully this last PC(if he saw it) will get him to tell someone or turn himself in.

Maybe, but even ruthless serial killers have done things like that, like cover the bodies of their victims, so I guess it's hard to say.
Murderers sometimes keep trophies, like the victims earring, as if it has some sort of sentimental value to them.
They do all sorts of weird things that are hard to understand, but I don't think they have to be religious to show any kind of remorse. Imo

 

[Suglo]

Mirror trees, the way I understand, is how they investigate old crimes. They put the DNA in the format compatible with Gedmatch database. If they are lucky, they find at least one close enough relative. (2nd cousin would be great). Or maybe, several not so close but still workable. Then they reconstruct the family trees for these matches, upwards, and compare them. Somewhere, depending on the proximity, they will arrive at the potential common ancestor (s). And from the ancestor, they go back to all his descendants and find the one that would potentially match the profile. (e.g., living in the same area, Delphi or vicinity, for this case), being around in the time of the murders, or fitting the profile otherwise. Usually there might be 3-4 people who could be the potential POI from the DNA studies, so they don't necessarily zero in on one person. Then they might ask the DNA from all 3-4 to confirm. This is when someone refusing a swab would be interesting...

It works better with old crimes. When you have the DNA, the area of the crimes, but nothing else. This is how the first crime in California was solved. They identified 3-4 people and collected their DNA (discarded tissues, glasses, etc).

Please correct me if I am wrong. I never worked with mirror trees as I am from another country and once missed a huge window of opportunity.

In the case when there is fresh DNA, and some other clues, one could simply collect the DNA from potential suspects, or a larger group of people. But after all, the POI might know he is of interest, and be very wary of leaving any "traces" anywhere. Then you have to work the same way.

What I am concerned about is that if there was embryo donation, or international adoption, the situation is much worse. Also, non-paternity event is confusing.

But - for international adoptions, at least, there might be traces of an adoption. People can't adopt that covertly.

For embryo donations, that always are a possibility, as they were around since mid-80es, one would hope that the donors were from the same area, and then one could eventually find them. But it is more straightforward if the person is not adopted.

This is how I understand it. Tell me if I am wrong.

You are correct. Here’s a link that explains the mirror trees in genealogy.

Concepts – Mirror Trees