Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[emmeeks]

I think this one was pretty good. It came from a press conference today on a 47 yr old cold case. Unfortunately he is deceased and won’t face charges.

I thought the same when I watched the PC this afternoon! Thanks for posting!

 

[susiQ]

No, it's not even certain if they have any usable DNA at all. As far as I know... imo.

At the 9:45 mark in this news report one of the panel says she was at a conference and the investigators said they have DNA evidence. I think she mentions it at an earlier point as well.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

He would catch my attention because his jacket is not a quarter or half or fully buttoned up. He buttoned up one opening at the bottom and skipped some openings and buttoned another higher up... why? Put the jacket on in a hurry and knows he's soon going to take it off again anyway? It looks uncomfortable and, with the extra junk he appears to be toting inside the jacket, I would wonder what was going on with him.

I still believe he has a brown hoodie on under the jacket so the jacket, imo, was a hurried addition to his "costume" in order to approach with tools he needed hidden from the girls. That's why, imo, there's something white sticking out of the top of the jacket... too much of a hurry to put the jacket on and catch up to the girls. And, he might have reasoned, if anyone saw him they'd tell LE he was wearing a blue jacket... not a brown hoodie. He could have had the jacket hidden in the woods near the beginning of the bridge... all packed up and ready to go. People might see him begin crossing the bridge, but they'd only see his back and he'd be wearing a blue jacket so they probably wouldn't connect him with the man they'd seen earlier wearing a brown hoodie. (And, when he was wearing the brown hoodie, it seems likely that quite a few would have seen his face.) However, probably very few remember the face of the guy wearing the blue jacket.
This could even account for there being 2 sketches. All jmo.

Good catch on the buttons! Now that you mention it, that does look quite uncomfortable. At first, I thought I'd only notice that he looked cold.

 

[k-mac]

think its ok to discuss since you asked the question its handy to be able to clear things up where ever possible.

I asked a few threads back but I don't think I got an answer- apologies if I did, and just point me in the right direction if so.

Could someone provide me an MSM link verifying that the girls specifically discussed "some creepy guy" earlier on during their walk that day on the trails? That quote has been put forth as fact many times, but I've just never seen anything to confirm this. TIA.

I believe its mentioned as the creepy guy in grays you tube videos.
he has interviewed/spoken to the families so imo there are tidbits (horses mouth) he has access to that are not in msm but because you tubers are considered hearsay its not validated or verified for us to discuss.

I found this. It doesn’t use the word “creepy” though.

DELPHI, Ind. (WTHR) - State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

Police say the girls mostly talk about "stuff girls talk about" in the recording, but they also mention the man. The only audio that has been released to the public from the phone is that of a man's voice ordering German and her friend, Abby Williams, "down the hill."

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

 

[Boxer]

No, it's not even certain if they have any usable DNA at all. As far as I know... imo.

Latest article I could find regarding DNA.
However, we have seen they do have some way of excluding suspects.


Delphi murders: What's still missing 2 years after the slayings of Abby and Libby

 

[MsBetsy]

I read his demeanor in the presser to say, how dare you betray (insert here the pronoun you think fits best), and to have the audacity to think you could get away with it. In Carter's body language, I read hurt, anger bordering on fury, a deep sense of betrayal, and intense determination. Do you think the emotions we saw were coached, completely in- the- moment, or a combination?

I think his emotions were real and every word was carefully considered and written beforehand, most likely by FBI profilers.
It probably is personal for him. I have seen LE get very emotional when speaking publicly.
It has to be hard to get to know the victim's family, and through them, the victims themselves, and not be able to give them the answers they have been waiting for so long. Imo

 

[Boxer]

At the 9:45 mark in this news report one of the panel says she was at a conference and the investigators said they have DNA evidence. I think she mentions it at an earlier point as well.

Thank you.
Well that was clear. Reporter says lead detective told her they do have DNA.
MOO that would be Det. Holeman.

 

[max99]

I’ve been assuming that the mess with the sketch was the murderer posing as a innocent witness gave the description of either an imaginary face, or an enemy of his’ Face and thus born a sketch that has now been disregarded. It would maybe explain the line in the press Conference along the lines of ‘you never thought we would change direction’ . JUST MY OPINION but it always crosses my mind that this could be a possibility when the new sketch is questioned.

Edited for spelling

wow....that would make sense on a number of levels.

 

[FrostedGlass]

For the folks who are still confused about the sketches and want to hear what was actually said about the July 2017 release of the first BG pic, here is the PC video; it's 9 minutes long.

Or, you can go to this page and scroll down a bit until you come to the transcript one of our former members provided:

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Then you can go to this link in which Master Trooper Taylor Bryant, the sketch artist, shares how the second image came about:

Delphi murders: New sketch of killer, video from Libby's phone released

The sketch released on Monday was drawn by Bryant on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to Bryant.

 

[enelram]

Hey MassGuy, a couple questions for you, please.
Do you think they already know who the perp is?
How long til they have him in custody?
What is the new direction LE is taking?
Thanks!!!!

 

[Jabarn]

For the folks who are still confused about the sketches and want to hear what was actually said about the July 2017 release of the first BG pic, here is the PC video; it's 9 minutes long.

Or, you can go to this page and scroll down a bit until you come to the transcript one of our former members provided:

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Then you can go to this link in which Master Trooper Taylor Bryant, the sketch artist, shares how the second image came about:

Delphi murders: New sketch of killer, video from Libby's phone released

You know, when this first sketch was finally released, I thought the artist Bryant saw the POI and drew the sketch from his recollection. Now I understand he met with a witness. Wish more details of when, where and how the witness was located and why a sketch artist (Bryant) was brought in to sketch who was seen.

As all of you, I wonder why it’s taken two years to go back and revisit that sketch and release it as the image of the killer.

 

[Not a Belle]

I asked a few threads back but I don't think I got an answer- apologies if I did, and just point me in the right direction if so.

Could someone provide me an MSM link verifying that the girls specifically discussed "some creepy guy" earlier on during their walk that day on the trails? That quote has been put forth as fact many times, but I've just never seen anything to confirm this. TIA.

I think I'm one of the people who have put that forth as fact, and I apologize. I have looked back through everything I could find, and can't find support for anything other than their talking about the man, minus the "creepy" part.

 

[MassGuy]

Hey MassGuy, a couple questions for you, please.
Do you think they already know who the perp is?
How long til they have him in custody?
What is the new direction LE is taking?
Thanks!!!!

Ha! I wish I had these answers.

I don’t think they know who this guy is.

How long until he’s in custody, is simply unknowable. We don’t know if this new information has led to valuable tips, or if they are exploring genetic genealogy (or if that option is even available.

The new direction is likely in reference to this newly released sketch, and the focus on the Delphi community.

I’m confident of an arrest, but when that is, is anyone’s guess.

 

[pepper 34]

I can't remember if it was the podcast or another news broadcast but I'm certain they confirmed they had DNA. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

I also thought it was said on MSM that they had recovered DNA. I don't think it has ever been said that they have BG's DNA specifically.

 

[Jabarn]

For the folks who are still confused about the sketches and want to hear what was actually said about the July 2017 release of the first BG pic, here is the PC video; it's 9 minutes long.

Or, you can go to this page and scroll down a bit until you come to the transcript one of our former members provided:

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Then you can go to this link in which Master Trooper Taylor Bryant, the sketch artist, shares how the second image came about:

Delphi murders: New sketch of killer, video from Libby's phone released

Also wonder, when the officer says the composite photo, does he mean the sketch of the one we have been focusing for two years? TIA.

 

[Mind your biscuits]

You know, when this first sketch was finally released, I thought the artist Bryant saw the POI and drew the sketch from his recollection. Now I understand he met with a witness. Wish more details of when, where and how the witness was located and why a sketch artist (Bryant) was brought in to sketch who was seen.

As all of you, I wonder why it’s taken two years to go back and revisit that sketch and release it as the image of the killer.

My own theory is that they enlisted some fresh eyes to look at the case from the begining. I think i recall Georgia FBI being mentioned.
Perhaps they revisited the sketches with the witnesses too. Most probably they read their own scanner transcripts and had a light bulb moment. Moo

 

[zencompass]

Latest article I could find regarding DNA.
However, we have seen they do have some way of excluding suspects.


Delphi murders: What's still missing 2 years after the slayings of Abby and Libby

Unlike Nuclear DNA which identifies one person uniquely, there have been cases where mtDNA or Y-chromosomeDNA have proven helpful.

As you say, they can "exclude" with mtDNA ( matrilineal) or Y-chromosomeDNA (paternal lineage).

In murder investigations, the above DNA testing can "include" relatives (cousins, etc.) but in an area where the perpetrator has few to none relatives, the DNA evidence is extremely useful to the investigation.


DNA Casework

 

[Jabarn]

Ha! I wish I had these answers.

I don’t think they know who this guy is.

How long until he’s in custody, is simply unknowable. We don’t know if this new information has led to valuable tips, or if they are exploring genetic genealogy (or if that option is even available.

The new direction is likely in reference to this newly released sketch, and the focus on the Delphi community.

I’m confident of an arrest, but when that is, is anyone’s guess.

As always MassGuy, you stay so leveled headed and focused on what is known.

I wonder if BG/POI has been arrested somewhere for something else. It seems it would be easier to look at known arrestees. IMO.

 

[insearchoflight]

No, it's not even certain if they have any usable DNA at all. As far as I know... imo.

In the beginning investigators said they did collect dna evidence but it has never been stated how much or if it is usable.

INDIANAPOLIS, Ind.- On Thursday, investigators say they had recovered DNA evidence from the Delphi crime scene where two girls, 13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German, were found murdered.


DNA evidence is top priority in Delphi murder investigation

 

[pepper 34]

I’m not a fan of the whole setup or lair thing. It was also mentioned on that HLN special.

First he had to find a victim.

Then he had to intercept this victim at a particular point.

Then he had to transport the victim to this area that he had set up, and do so undetected.

I think it’s simpler than that, and he just took the girls to the nearest isolated location.

That being said, I definitely think he was familiar with the location.

I do think that Libby’s phone, possibly captured some unspeakable horrors. And I agree, I don’t think he knew that she had recorded him.

As for the press conference being written by FBI profilers, I absolutely believe that to have been the case.

That was a thing of beauty.

Agree with the idea that, in this case, there was no pre-planned "lair." The area where the girls were found was hardly a private lair. The land was flat, trees were without leaves and the area is visible from across the creek. It would have been too easy to hear them shouting if anyone was up in the cemetery or out back of RL's land. And, there's a hiking path back along that ridge there and, as we've seen on MSM news, a path from RL's land leading right down to where the girls were found. That's not a lair! Plus, the crime scene was very large by all accounts so, it seems to me, there was some loss of control of the girls temporarily.

If BG did have a lair all planned out and prepared, then I think his plan went way off the track because I can't imagine he would have chosen that place to carry out his plans.
ETA... although it's a great place if he was planning on using the area for his escape.